Am I too scrupulous here? (speed limits)

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Flopfoot

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Lately I try to drive the exact speed limit, even when there are no other cars ahead and it would be safe to go quite a bit faster, because I figure that breaking the speed limit is against the law and hence it would be a sin. Am I being too scrupulous with this? Do you think it is okay to break speed limits sometimes, or should we always drive below the speed limit?

I find it pretty hard because I don’t want to drive too much below the speed limit either, in order to be courteous to other drivers who might get stuck behind me (I fig, they can’t really complain if I’m right on the speed limit) so then while I’m driving, half the time I’m just watching my speedometer…
 
Yes…I’m sure as a driver you are aware that there are times when driving the speed limit regardless of what is going on around you can actually endanger the saftey of yourself and others. Then there are other times when driving the speed limit or under the speed limit is the only prudent thing to do.
 
A priest in my diocese was asked this question and his answer was “The only way speeding is a sin is if you are speeding away from Mass” Of course he was joking but, i was always told its only a sin if it is directly endangering someone else or yourself. A little 5-10 over when not in traffic has got to be ok in my opinion.
 
I love speed and in no way consider it a sin. If there is no one on the road and I want to go 100 like I sometimes do on road trips, who cares. However, if I have passengers in the car then I would have to think of their safety as well and drive no more than 85 since it wold be a sin to endanger other people’s lives.
 
That is the way I thought once (ie, so long as it is safe it’s okay) but there’s talk of and bits in the bible about how we are not supposed to break any law from our governments unless that law contradicts God’s law. Give to Caesar that which is owed to Caesar and all that. We’ve spoke about this issue in the forums before. Thing is I first heard it from a Protestant so it might not be true.

Anyway, keep them posts coming, lets see what more people think.

Ah and by the way wjp - it’s a sin to endanger your own life, so you should still drive safely when you are alone in the car. Not that it’s a bad thing to take extra care when you have passengers though.

Not that going 100mph is necessarily unsafe…I’ve done it before…
 
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Flopfoot:
That is the way I thought once (ie, so long as it is safe it’s okay) but there’s talk of and bits in the bible about how we are not supposed to break any law from our governments unless that law contradicts God’s law. Give to Caesar that which is owed to Caesar and all that. We’ve spoke about this issue in the forums before. Thing is I first heard it from a Protestant so it might not be true.
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It seems perfectly in accord with Catholic teaching to me. Once you say “I’m going to break the law (speed) because I think I know better than those who made the law how to achieve their aim (reduce road deaths)”, what is to stop you from saying “I’m going to cheat on my income tax because I know the tax they want me to pay is unfairly high”, or even I’m going to shoot that man because I know he deserves to die even though the law acquitted him/gave him a light sentence".

Besides how do you KNOW it’s safe to do 120km/h on a road on which the law says the maximum safe speed is 110km/h? Just because you’ve travelled it many times before with no problems? So have most of the people who die in car accidents.
 
Speed limits are posted for a reason. Driving is a privilege, not a right. Stay within the posted speed limit – it’s the law and it’s there for yours and others safety. If you can’t obey the law, you deserve to have your driving privileges taken away.

As an aside, I live on a residential street, just off the main drag. The posted speed on my street is 25 mph. Cars routinely cut through the neighborhood at 40+ to avoid a traffic light on the main drag. . . My street looks as though it would be safe to speed on, unless one marks the hidden/blind driveways that residents must use to get onto the street. It’s criminal the way people ignore the signs. When we see a blue light going on and someone pulled over in my neighborhood, it’s a cause for celebration – the men/women in blue are doing their jobs making the street safer!

Two young boys were killed on my street last year. Good Samaritan stopped to allow them to cross. Impatient, speeding motorist sped around the stopped car (wheels on a residents’ grass) without slowing and slammed into them.

Speed and impatience kills.

Bravo to those who stay within the posted traffic laws!
 
On the Texas freeways, driving the speed limit could cause very serious car accidents resulting in serious injury or even death. :eek:

If you find that you’re holding up traffic, I suggest you get in the slow lane and drive a “safe” speed even if it’s over the limit. 😉

Ask God’s forgiveness for your venial sins with your evening prayer.
 
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wjp984:
I love speed and in no way consider it a sin. If there is no one on the road and I want to go 100 like I sometimes do on road trips, who cares. However, if I have passengers in the car then I would have to think of their safety as well and drive no more than 85 since it wold be a sin to endanger other people’s lives.
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Have you considered what it would be like to have a tire blowout at 100 mph or even at 85?
 
Again…

The Church teaches us that all authority comes from God. So when you willfully speed you are opening defying God’s authority.

How can that **NOT **be a sin?
 
Hi,

The speed limit should be observed within reason but I don’t think it’s black-and-white. At the same time one must not excuse themselves from being reasonable and using due caution.

Who is safer in a 35 mph zone - an alert watchful person going 40 or a person looking at their cell phone to dial it but going 35?
 
I think it’s a sin to go the speed limit in the lane cars use to pass. The entire 4-6 lane highway is speeding along in harmony, when WHAM! BAM! SMACK! Right into mr. do-gooder going 50MPH in the left lane, who refuses to move for anything, even though there’s no possibly good reason to be in that lane.

All the accidents I see are caused by drivers not paying attention and not staying with the flow of traffic. They may be going too fast (although I haven’t seen an accident of that nature yet) or they may be going slow (happens all the time around here).

I think it is a sin not to be aware of others on the road and stay in harmony with the other drivers, but rather be arrogant and drive your own way, regardless of what speed that happens to be.
 
hasikelee said:
I think it’s a sin to go the speed limit in the lane cars use to pass. The entire 4-6 lane highway is speeding along in harmony, when WHAM! BAM! SMACK! Right into mr. do-gooder going 50MPH in the left lane, who refuses to move for anything, even though there’s no possibly good reason to be in that lane.

All the accidents I see are caused by drivers not paying attention and not staying with the flow of traffic. They may be going too fast (although I haven’t seen an accident of that nature yet) or they may be going slow (happens all the time around here).

I think it is a sin not to be aware of others on the road and stay in harmony with the other drivers, but rather be arrogant and drive your own way, regardless of what speed that happens to be.
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And if ‘staying in harmony with the other drivers’ meant following them straight off a bridge would you do that as well? Turn on your news most any day and you’ll see accidents caused by speeding drivers, even if you’ve not personally eyewitnessed one.

If other drivers out there are breaking the law and exceeding the speed limit then you are not obliged to break the law yourself out of a misguided idea of ‘harmony’ with them. Why SHOULD you be in harmony with people who are doing something illegal?

Out of courtesy for speeding drivers stick close to the limit, but not above, and perhaps get into the slowest lane.
 
In our society I think we neither interpret nor intend the speed limit as black and white. On some 55mph highways it may be common to have cars going 60 or so in the left lane. If you plan to stay in the left lane in that case then it seems reasonable to go 60 or so also.

dot.state.mn.us/speed/speedbrochure.html#regulatory
A technical analysis is done on the results to determine the 85th percentile. This is the value indicating the speed at which most (85%) drivers are traveling under.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_limit
“Most U.S. jurisdictions report using the 85th percentile speed as the basis for their speed limits, so the 85th-percentile speed and speed limits should be closely matched.”

I’m sure other web sites with similar information can be found.

Drivers: please don’t use this as an excuse to speed excessively - I’m only supporting my point that it is not black and white but still we have a responsibility to drive at safe speeds.
 
Note that the 85th percentile refers to a number of drivers not a % of a max speed. Also the 85 percentile is used to determine the safe speed limit - but not to indicate enforcement. I must admit that exceeding the posted speed limit is technically illegal but I don’t think socially/culturally we generally view it as black and white including lawmakers and law enforcers. Again, this is within reason.

Apparenrtly, if the 85 percentile speed increases, then the speed limit may be adjusted. For example, if it is observed that 85% of people drive at or below 40mph and the posted speed limit is 35, then the government may decide to increase the speed limit to 40. Obviously this would not happen if some people (including members of the 85th percentile) did not exceed the limit. This seems to relate to majority “flow”.

I’m not advocating excessive speed, I am supporting the thesis that it is not entirely black and white.
 
the quick and final answer is Yes

I used to speed all the time excessivvely at times for four years. I got pulled over twice and let off with a warning. I continued to speed until finally strike three and I got a ticket. I paid the fine and went to traffic school and all is well. I never have and never willl confess speeding since it is not a sin or at least not a mortal one. Oh, and I cant wait until Jnuary 11. I am so sick and tired of having to go only 10 above the speed limit since you can only go to traffic school once every 18 months. Once Jan 11 comes I can take my chances again until I get another ticket which hopefully won’t be for a few years.
 
wjp984 said:
the quick and final answer is Yes

I used to speed all the time excessivvely at times for four years. I got pulled over twice and let off with a warning. I continued to speed until finally strike three and I got a ticket. I paid the fine and went to traffic school and all is well. I never have and never willl confess speeding since it is not a sin or at least not a mortal one. Oh, and I cant wait until Jnuary 11. I am so sick and tired of having to go only 10 above the speed limit since you can only go to traffic school once every 18 months. Once Jan 11 comes I can take my chances again until I get another ticket which hopefully won’t be for a few years.
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Well depending on the circumstances, speeding may or may not be a mortal sin but all sin should be avoided as far as possible - and don’t you think it’s ALSO sinful that you’ve wasted time on traffic school and money on traffic fines - for what possible benefit?
 
Coder said:
Note that the 85th percentile refers to a number of drivers not a % of a max speed. Also the 85 percentile is used to determine the safe speed limit - but not to indicate enforcement.
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To clarify, by this I meant that technically the exact speed limit could be enforced once it is set (even though based on the 85th percentile). However, my other point is that I think as a society (including legal system) we sometimes/often don’t intend it to be interpreted an absolute/exact max limit. This may be (partly) based on the very nature of how we determine the speed limit - i.e. the 85th percentile.

A very clear example of the speed limit not intended as black and white is a Montana law that allows drivers to temporarily exceed the posted speed limit by 10mph in order to pass:

nhtsa.dot.gov/people/injury/enforce/speedlaws501/toc/mtspeed.pdf
“2. When traveling on a two lane road, a person may exceed this speed limit by 10 MPH in order to overtake and pass another vehicle.”

I think the main purpose of the speed limit is the common good including safety. As long as we drive safely and don’t use excessive speed I think we are following the spirit of the law even if we are driving at a speed that is over the posted speed limit by reasonable amounts.

What constitutes reasonable vs. excessive? Here are examples. I think it is clear that when someone is doing 45mph in a 35mph zone in midday on a busy street when many children are playing near the street that the person is speeding and not usng caution. On a straight stretch of the same street at 3am with no cars parked alongside and clear visibility etc.I don’t consider 40mph to be wrong provided all safety factors are considered.

We have a street where the speed limit is 25 then opens to 35 past farm land for about 1/3 mile. When I come out of the 25, I accelerate to maybe about 45 then begin slowing down for the stop at the intersection so I am exceeding the speed limit by a fairly large amount but not for a long time. The road is clear and there is open farm land on either side.

I think there are many cases in day to day driving where there are streteches of road where people accelerate a bit more and other strectches where they drive more slowly. The speed limit is not posted at every spot and some stretches of a road may be safer to go a bit faster. I don’t think we want to be a legalistic/pharisaic society. The public and police probably know of such stretches of road where the speed limit is more often reasonably exceeded. Some police in their off-duty with family might also exceed the speed on such stretches. At the same time we know when there is a crowded residential area or playground where you should be driving closely to (or below) the speed limit and using caution.

Sometimes, it may be prudent to go ***below ***the speed limit. There are reverse examples of the legalistic approach. On an ice covered street with children playing outside, going around the corner at the exact speed could almost be certain to cause the car to slide off the road. So technically you are gioing the speed limit but are violating the spirit of the law.

I think there was a pope who indicated in matters of doubt - liberty and in all things - charity. For driving, I think charity primarily means safety.
 
Coder said:
We have a street where the speed limit is 25 then opens to 35 past farm land for about 1/3 mile. When I come out of the 25, I accelerate to maybe about 45…
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Note that’s a 35 mph zone.
 
Coder said:
To clarify, by this I meant that technically the exact speed limit could be enforced once it is set (even though based on the 85th percentile). However, my other point is that I think as a society (including legal system) we sometimes/often don’t intend it to be interpreted an absolute/exact max limit. This may be (partly) based on the very nature of how we determine the speed limit - i.e. the 85th percentile.

A very clear example of the speed limit not intended as black and white is a Montana law that allows drivers to temporarily exceed the posted speed limit by 10mph in order to pass:

nhtsa.dot.gov/people/injury/enforce/speedlaws501/toc/mtspeed.pdf
“2. When traveling on a two lane road, a person may exceed this speed limit by 10 MPH in order to overtake and pass another vehicle.”

I think the main purpose of the speed limit is the common good including safety. As long as we drive safely and don’t use excessive speed I think we are following the spirit of the law even if we are driving at a speed that is over the posted speed limit by reasonable amounts.

What constitutes reasonable vs. excessive? Here are examples. I think it is clear that when someone is doing 45mph in a 35mph zone in midday on a busy street when many children are playing near the street that the person is speeding and not usng caution. On a straight stretch of the same street at 3am with no cars parked alongside and clear visibility etc.I don’t consider 40mph to be wrong provided all safety factors are considered.

We have a street where the speed limit is 25 then opens to 35 past farm land for about 1/3 mile. When I come out of the 25, I accelerate to maybe about 45 then begin slowing down for the stop at the intersection so I am exceeding the speed limit by a fairly large amount but not for a long time. The road is clear and there is open farm land on either side.

I think there are many cases in day to day driving where there are streteches of road where people accelerate a bit more and other strectches where they drive more slowly. The speed limit is not posted at every spot and some stretches of a road may be safer to go a bit faster. I don’t think we want to be a legalistic/pharisaic society. The public and police probably know of such stretches of road where the speed limit is more often reasonably exceeded. Some police in their off-duty with family might also exceed the speed on such stretches. At the same time we know when there is a crowded residential area or playground where you should be driving closely to (or below) the speed limit and using caution.

Sometimes, it may be prudent to go ***below ***the speed limit. There are reverse examples of the legalistic approach. On an ice covered street with children playing outside, going around the corner at the exact speed could almost be certain to cause the car to slide off the road. So technically you are gioing the speed limit but are violating the spirit of the law.

I think there was a pope who indicated in matters of doubt - liberty and in all things - charity. For driving, I think charity primarily means safety.
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This issue reminds me of something Jimmy Akin talked about. That is, legamorons. He specifically used the example of driving a couple miles an hour over the speed limit. You can check it out here.

jimmyakin.typepad.com/defensor_fidei/2006/08/poker_legamoron.html

It seems that our society doesn’t in fact worry so much about a trivial but technical breaking of the speed limit. The police may themselves drive a little over the speed limit and allow others to do so.

However, “speeding” is usually regarded as a more definite and excessive breaking of the speed limit and should be avoided. I try to drive the speed limit and follow what I believe the police would allow. (I’ve never had a speeding ticket) If I’m going faster than I think I should be (legally) even though I personally may think it is safe, I still slow down to the appropriate speed in order to obey the law. I guess my point is, I would worry too much about a few miles over, but I wouldn’t be overly pressured into going so fast you can get a ticket just for the sake of others behind you.

Although if it were really a dangerous situation to drive the speed limit or below, it doesn’t seem like you could argue the morality of following the laws is greater than the morality of being safe as the law is there to keep people safe in the first place. There may be times were the rationality of the law doesn’t apply and I find it hard to say one must follow the law in that situation. For instance, if there is no traffic and you are rushing someone to the hospital, can you run a red light? (assuming running a red light is always illegal) Would you possibly even be morally obligated to do so?
 
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