AMEN to what you say .I know there are those that disagree with me and have their reasons, so I will say this is my opinion. I, also, would say that this is why I am so glad I am Catholic because music is not the be all and end all of our worship but is complementary. There is a much bigger and important part of our worship that goes on and music many times is about taste and culture, whether it should be or not is a different subject, and hopefully the liturgical music is appropriately chosen and should be, but again IMO
All tenses are true, from a certain point of view. Scripture uses different tenses. There is nothing wrong with the Protestant quesiton, it is just not the only way to say it, nor does it cover the whole of what happens.
This is an interesting idea. I think a lot of our language barriers revolve around it.
I feel the need to repeat my earlier statement that the nature of time is a huge source of disagreement between Christians.
I find it interesting that A Mighty Fortress, considered the *Battle Hymn of the Reformation *gets sung at mass. This was Luther’s marching song. I think I may have heard it once and hope I never hear it again because it is definitely inappropriate.
but you know and I know what they are asking. They are not asking it without any other interpretation on the word “saved” than assured of salvation
I understand but dont we have enough traditional Roman Catholic Hymns and sacred music to choose from other than going outside the liturgical music box? Theres literally hundreds if not thousands of hymns and music to choose from with 2000 years of history.
Imagine the Ave Maria or Anima Christi being performed in the baptist church or church of christ services LOL
To be honest, so far this is the only part of the song that I see that allows one to reasonably interpret it in a hereticalmanner. Although, even with this aspect, the fact is that one can also understand this in a way that is theologically sound. If for instance, I were to convert from protestantism to Catholicsm, and, in talking about my conversion I told my fellow Catholics that God saved me through His Grace, would you understand this statement as heretical? as implying the OSAS mentality? In other words the use of the word “saved” can be understood as either referring simply to the conversion. When sung by Catholics in a Catholic Church where the members have an understanding of the basic teachings of the Church with respect to Salvation, it really isn’t a problem. Yes, there are OSAS Protestants who will sing it and understand it in a hereticcal way, but that doesn’t mean that Catholics can’t sing it in a way that is completely theologically sound.
If the song lyricsc are not heretical, how are we being influenced by protestantism by singing it? Thats like claiming we shouldn’t have Christmas trees because they are a pagan influence. The Church takes things from other cultures and religions and makes them Catholic. The fact that it originally came from a protestant is not a legitimate reason for excluding it from the Catholic Church.
Well, prepare to be blown: it is in several US Catholic hymnals and if you ever go to Germany it is also in the German Roman Catholic Hymnal (which is much more tightly regulated than anything in the US or UK). It’s not sung in the UK at all: There is a similar translation called A Safe Stronghold our God is still, but it is only found in a few hymnals here.
Actually, as I posted earlier on, we don’t have a huge reportoire of hymns to draw on. Most early hymnody was written for devotions and morning and evening prayer so the number of Catholic mass hymns is very small indeed, mainly because hymns were not sung at mass until the last century (and initially only at Low Mass)
If that is what someone converting from protestantism to Catholicism said, yes, I think a lot of Catholics would wonder. Is he referring to being saved. Does he not know we don’t talk like that? It is just not something you hear Catholics say.
Exactly
Are there no other songs that we can sing to thank God for his grace or do we sing it because it is popular and easily sung and people know the words and we’ve got to get them singing?
(Speaking of A Mighty Fortress is Our God) It didn’t just have an impact on the reformation, it was written by Luther on his way to Worms. It was his battle song against the Pope and the Catholic church. As I said earlier, it is called the Battle Hymn of the Reformation. It is still considered a marching song for protestantism.You are speaking only of hymns. We have many years of beautiful Gregrorian chant music and even if there is just a small number of Catholic hymns we should still hear them.
I don’t see that at all. It doesn’t say that, and the evidence is against such an interpretation. OSAS is a fifty/fifty proposition in the Protestant world. Even among Baptist there were a sizable portion that do not accept this. Flip over and lurk on a Protestant board and you will find this hotly debated, though the song Amazing Grace is not considered controversial.
On your first point: supposedly, but we don’t know that for sure. I wonder why the German and Canadian Bishops authorised its use in their respective Book of Worship - perhaps because there is nothing anti-Catholic in the lyrics and it’s a great tune?
You are speaking only of hymns. We have many years of beautiful Gregrorian chant music and even if there is just a small number of Catholic hymns we should still hear them.
I didn’t say the song asks the question. I said when a protestant asks you if you are saved we know what they mean. Most people do but just in case there are those that don’t, they mean, are you in a relationship with God, saved for eternal life by the grace of God through faith only and have your names written in the book of life.
Really? I’m not talking about somebody who is thinking about converting to catholicism, but has full on converted. Do you have any idea how fervent converts generally are in their faith? Especially if they used to be protestant? If they are converting to Catholicism as an adult it is because they have become convinced that this is the one true Church set up by Christ. Even a basic understanding of Catholicism will make it clear that Catholics do not accept OSAS. The sacrament of confession, for instance, is absolutely contrary to such an idea. From some of your other posts on this thread it sounds like your perception of this song is coloured by the meanings you associated with it before you converted. Thats perfectly understandable, but it is not at all what most Catholics think of when they hear or sing this song.
If they have a basic knowledge of Catholicism, and have no previous associations of this song with the idea of OSAS they really are not going to misunderstand it, and so I see nothing wrong with it.I can’t speak for every one, but this is not a song I hear very often, yet I love it because it is such a powerful song. Not because it is easy to sing, or popular, or because people know the words. It is very emotive, which is a good thing. I certainly know of no song that could be a real replacement for Amazing Grace. There are many other songs that sing about Grace and the goodness of God, yes… but none of them are a good replacement for Amazing Grace.
Mind. Blown.