Amazon Synod final document: "Terrible and seemingly impious things"

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Here are some of the controversial bits, in what the NCR describes as a “Vatican working translation,” presumably not necessarily the final English text.

www.ncregister.com

Three Key Paragraphs of Amazon Synod’s Final Document

Full texts of the propositions relating to the ordination of married men, a female diaconate and an Amazonian rite, their voting numbers, plus some brief observations.
www.ncregister.com www.ncregister.com
 
BartholomewB said:
Here are some of the controversial bits, in what the NCR describes as a “Vatican working translation,” presumably not necessarily the final English text.
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I think everyone should know that NONE of the three points mentioned in this article - female diaconate, married priests or the creation of an Amazonian rite - are doctrinal in nature, but they are practices that can evolve and change as they always have. They are only controversial to those who prefer fixed practice
 
godisgood77 said:
They are only controversial to those who prefer fixed practice
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Simply not true. Not all changes qualify as wise reforms. There is a very old history in the West of priestly celibacy, that has its reasons. It should not be lightly discarded.

The idea of women deacons may very well be doctrinal in nature, depending on what is intended.

You have no evidence they are only controversial to those who prefer fixed practices. I would like to see many changes in our Church, and yet I find these proposals controversial.
 
tafan2 said:
It should not be lightly discarded.
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I don’t think anyone is suggesting that it be lightly disregarded, do you?
tafan2 said:
The idea of women deacons may very well be doctrinal in nature, depending on what is intended.
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I’m not sure this is true… the Church has had women deacons before… on what grounds are people objecting?
BartholomewB said:
They are controversial because people disagree about them. That’s what “controversial” means.
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Fair… poor choice of words by me. I simply think the hysteria by some is counter productive
 
Lazybones said:
and try not to worry about an outcome that i am powerless to influence.
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Not so. Ora et labora - Pray and work. Prayer, fasting, spreading the truth etc all influence the Mystical Body of Christ. 1 Cor. 12: 25-27.
 
So this is what keeps Msgr. Pope up at night?..

I once heard a very good homily where the priest basically said everybody needs to stop thinking about what is happening in Rome and focus on what happened in and around Jerusalem about 2000 years ago. I think it applies here.
 
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That is an interesting point. The ordination of women to the priesthood has is not possible, as a defined doctrine. St. John Paul did not extend his definition to ordination in general. There are theologians who believe it is not possible, as a matter of doctrine, and those who do not. But this latter point has never been definite. I think it important that just three years ago the issue was under review and no action was taken.
 
To be fair, in that case the “prophets of gloom” were proven right. We went from Pope John’s optimism to Pope Paul talking about the Church being in a state of “auto-demolition” and the smoke of Satan having entered the Church, all within a few years. The Church was almost immediately plunged into doctrinal and liturgical confusion, vocations plummeted, and many people stopped showing up. Not to mentioned the radical societal upheavals the world went through between 1962 and, say, 1975.

Pope John at his time correctly noted that “the fundamental doctrine of the Church which has repeatedly been taught by the Fathers and by ancient and modern theologians…is presumed to be well known and familiar to all.” This was no longer true, however, within a few years.

Likewise, with regard to the errors in the world, he says
But all such error is so manifestly contrary to rightness and goodness, and produces such fatal results, that our contemporaries show every inclination to condemn it of their own accord—especially that way of life which repudiates God and His law, and which places excessive confidence in technical progress and an exclusively material prosperity. It is more and more widely understood that personal dignity and true self-realization are of vital importance and worth every effort to achieve. More important still, experience has at long last taught men that physical violence, armed might, and political domination are no help at all in providing a happy solution to the serious problems which affect them.
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Again, while true when he said it, this all changed shortly thereafter. The fact is, the “prophets of gloom” proved to have been more astute at reading the signs of the times.
 
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Many folks on here still seem to have the opinion that “well, if it came from over 100 bishops, it must be good and holy!”

NOT true. Sacred Scripture explicitly warns us about evil intentions coming from clergy. St. Paul’s letters to St. Timothy and the letters of Sts. John and Jude make this perfectly clear.

When a priest or bishop, or anyone for that matter, claims that a break in Church teaching would be the “work of the Holy Spirit” or something along those lines, it is a lie. The Holy Spirit is God just as the Father and Son are, and the Holy Spirit will therefore NOT contradict other members of the Trinity.
 
tafan2 said:
There is a very old history in the West of priestly celibacy, that has its reasons. It should not be lightly discarded.
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There are several married Latin Rite Catholic priests ministering in the US today. I have the blessing to count two of them among my friends.
 
I 7nderstand that. And I am not being critical in anyway of them. But the norm should not be lightly discarded.
 
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The process for married men to be ordained is a detailed, thorough process. There is nothing light about it. These are done on a case by case basis. In the wealthy USA it is not for the faint of heart, imagine that in a remote part of the world that the process will be anything but “light”.
 
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