Amazon Synod final document: "Terrible and seemingly impious things"

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I understand, that is the way it should be. BTW, I also have known a married priest, and he certainly did not favor changing the rule of celibacy for priests.

I will add, the call for married priests in the Amazon region does not concern me as much as the call for women deacons. I am even more leary of the idea of a new rite than I am a limited allowance for married priests.
 
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Lazybones said:
I read in a history book about a stooge who was made Pope 100’s of years ago, in order to give benefits, titles and positions to people connected to those who ensured his election. After his appointment, the Pope had an immediate and complete conversion and played his part correctly. My point is: God has the ultimate say.
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Please let us know which pope this was so we can read the story 😊
 
Romans chapter 16 verses 1 and 2 speaks of Phoebe. In the Greek, the word used by St Paul is diakonos.

Footnote from St Paul’s letter to the Philippians:

bible.usccb.org

Philippians, CHAPTER 1

Daily Bible Readings, Podcast Audio and Videos and Prayers brought to you by the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops.
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Ministers: the Greek term diakonoi is used frequently in the New Testament to designate “servants,” “attendants,” or “ministers.” Paul refers to himself and to other apostles as “ministers of God” (2 Cor 6:4) or “ministers of Christ” (2 Cor 11:23). In the Pastorals (1 Tm 3:8, 12) the diakonos has become an established official in the local church; hence the term is there translated as deacon. The diakonoi at Philippi seem to represent an earlier stage of development of the office; we are uncertain about their precise functions. Hence the term is here translated as ministers. See Rom 16:1, where Phoebe is described as a diakonos (minister) of the church of Cenchreae.
 
TheLittleLady said:
Romans chapter 16 verses 1 and 2 speaks of Phoebe. In the Greek, the word used by St Paul is diakonos.

Footnote from St Paul’s letter to the Philippians:

http://www.usccb.org/bible/phil/1:1#58001001-2

Ministers: the Greek term diakonoi is used frequently in the New Testament to designate “servants,” “attendants,” or “ministers.” Paul refers to himself and to other apostles as “ministers of God” (2 Cor 6:4) or “ministers of Christ” (2 Cor 11:23). In the Pastorals (1 Tm 3:8, 12) the diakonos has become an established official in the local church; hence the term is there translated as deacon. The diakonoi at Philippi seem to represent an earlier stage of development of the office; we are uncertain about their precise functions. Hence the term is here translated as ministers. See Rom 16:1, where Phoebe is described as a diakonos (minister) of the church of Cenchreae.
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Thank you for this clarification!
 
tafan2 said:
I am even more leary of the idea of a new rite than I am a limited allowance for married priests.
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I am curious why people would be concerned over the proposed Amazonian Rite. This seems reasonable. What are your concerns?
 
tafan2 said:
It is my 7nderstanding that there have never been ordained women deacons
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There won’t be ordained women deacons at all. Whatever is meant by women deacons it is impossible to involve ordination because the Church infallibly teaches that only men can be ordained so on this matter people are jumping up and down for no good reason.

Married priests. What is the big deal about that. It is a discipline not a doctrine and can be changed anytime plus the Church already has married priests.
 
Well, it seems to me that most rites exist due to historical reasons, creating a new rite is not a common thing . And is it really necessary. Perhaps, I cannot say, but I do know that much of Central and South America has done just fine with the Latin rite. On top of that, I would be very concerned about the quality of liturgy of any rite created in our modern times.
thistle said:
Married priests. What is the big deal about that. It is a discipline not a doctrine and can be changed anytime plus the Church already has married priests.
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This really drives me crazy. As if the Church had no reason to institute priestly celibacy and its just no big deal at all, it can be disregarded at any time. It has no meaning, the Church has just held on to it because of some weird thing that happened in the 11th century. If something has been done for over 1000 years, perhaps we should consider it might have a little bit of importance and wisdom about it. But again, of the changes that were proposed, a limited married clergy is the least of my concerns.
thistle said:
There won’t be ordained women deacons at all.
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I have not seen that in any statement from the synod.
 
Genesis315 said:
The fact is, the “prophets of gloom” proved to have been more astute at reading the signs of the times.
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And yet it is still good to stand with St John XXIII:
We feel we must disagree with those prophets of gloom, who are always forecasting disaster, as though the end of the world were at hand.
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That is the root of the controversy. There is definitely evidence that deaconesses were not considered the equivalent of deacons, but were rather a separate order. Yet in the early medieval Byzantine rite, the rite to ordain deaconesses was strikingly similar to the rite to ordain deacons… but not identical.

Some Orthodox churches have begun ordaining deaconesses again… has anyone in Rome asked them how they understand it?
 
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tafan2 said:
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.) thistle:
Married priests. What is the big deal about that. It is a discipline not a doctrine and can be changed anytime plus the Church already has married priests.
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And I don’t know where this is coming from in the church. I don’t believe it is coming from Pope Francis. This is not what was proposed by the Amazon Synod. I see the Amazon Synod as simply trying to open up more opportunities for married men to be ordained as priests.

I’ve read some unfortunate articles just blasting celibacy from the National Catholic Reporter. These articles are not charitable. These articles seem to be suggesting priestly celibacy should just be abolished. Honestly, I believe often articles by the National Catholic Reporter do more damage than articles by the Church Militant.
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jack63 said:
Honestly, I believe often articles by the National Catholic Reporter do more damage than articles by the Church Militant.
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Ha, I would say so, except for one thing, I know of very, very few people who pay much attention to the National Catholic Reporter these days, certainly no one under the age of 65. Too many people pay attention to the Church Militant.
 
Too many people pay attention to false teachings and false guides
 
That is one possibility however, let me quote Merriam-Webster.

Definition of obeisance​

1 : a movement of the body made in token of respect or submission : bow // After making his obeisances he approached the altar.

2 : acknowledgment of another’s superiority or importance : homage //makes obeisance to her mentors //The players paid obeisance to their coach.

Obeisance-definition

Obeisance has other similar meanings as you can see.

Why do we see Catholics prostrating themselves before the altar or the Blessed Sacrament during adoration? It’s because God deserves our respect, submission and obedience. It is a movement that acknowledges someone or something as being our superior.

Maybe that’s not what our leaders meant for it to convey but obviously it is what some people saw.

None of us know what was in the hearts of those who participated so I don’t know what they were intending to do, however, I know that God will sort it all out and I will continue to pray that the outcomes of this Synod will be God’s will and not the desires of men.
 
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The book was “The Medici” by Paul Strathern. One of my very favourite reads. I’m sure he didn’t mention the Pope (maybe in the references) in question but there has been a lot of crooked ones.
 
My concern is that certain elements are seeking to change the Church to their version of what it should be; either through their own misguided intentions or a diabolic plot.
Introducing an exemption in one region is like opening a window…setting precedent…step one of a multi-step process. Normalize it, then expand it.
 
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