Amazon Synod idols cast in River Tiber today

[MagdalenaRita]

LOL, yes,

 

[prayinglatin]

So are you saying JP2 was worshipping the earth? or did you just cherry pick what was said out of context? Context matters. Let’s be honest. We can’t overlook reality for what it is. Catholics are a people of both faith and reason that must be grounded and rooted in reality - especially spiritual realities. Worshipping idols is … idolatry. Worshipping mother earth, which is dirt, is also idolatry.

We as Catholics may kiss holy ground before the Blessed Sacrament alone. Anything else done in worship is idolatry.

 

[graciew]

The “ worshipping” runs by your own.
They are kissing the ground.Saint John Paul also.
Why?

 

[Dlee]

If the people who did this asked me what I thought, I would tell them they ought to confess it and if they really have the moral courage they say they do they ought to go to the rector of the church and tell him outside of sacramental confession that they did it. They ought to turn themselves in, if the motive was so praiseworthy, because the act itself was wrong.

There is also restitution to consider - hmmmm.

 

[prayinglatin]

Gracie, sorry, I thought you understood the distinction. I know a priest who visited Mexico and when he came home to the US he kissed the ground because of how disgusting the conditions were where he visited. He did so in thanksgiving to be home. This is a substantially different intent than when a pagan worships mother earth and kisses the ground to worship it or when they bow down and prostrate themselves down before their pagan idols, which we know from our Catholic faith are actual demons they are worshipping. The distinction is based on the actor and intent. We know what pagans believe from their own admissions. These pagans themselves admit they worship these idols.

 

[Margaret_Ann]

Someone on two Catholic blogs posted the entire Te Deum.

 

[Aquinas11]

Heard good point today

Notice that the defenders of this Idolatry never surrender. Notice they never concede any error or mistake. Instead they play full offense (“this was theft!”). Orthodox Catholics should learn from this and do likewise. Obviously don’t learn from their doctrine which is heresy but do learn from their unbending and unrelenting commitment. We have the Truth so we must.

 

[Margaret_Ann]

Read about what Elias did interacting with the prophets of Baal worshipping demons.

1(3) Kings 18 - one of my favorite books of Scripture.

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

 

[Emeraldlady]

Emeraldlady:

Our Lady is depicted naked in our city Cathedral.

Are you sure that is the Blessed Mother or just a representation of new life after baptism. What Church is that? Is it Catholic?

Yes it is Catholic. It is the Cathedral in Brisbane. The image is ambiguous to represent what the Mother of Christ represents to Christians. The title is…

Here a people of godly race are born for heaven; the Spirit gives them life in the fertile waters. The Church-Mother, in these waves, bears her children like virginal fruit she has conceived by the Holy Spirit.

 

[MagdalenaRita]

So that apparently isnt a title for the Blessed Mother, so you must mean that is the wording above or near the baptismal font?
I think those words are part of ancient baptismal rite for RCIA.

 

[Emeraldlady]

So that apparently isnt a title for the Blessed Mother, so you must mean that is the wording above or near the baptismal font?

It’s an ambiguous image to incorporate the meaning of the virginal birth and new life in Christ that the Holy Mother represents to Catholics in baptism. It’s a bit of an insult to try and force the very spiritual meaning out of the picture because you think it’s idolatrous. They say she can be Mary, she can be Mother Church, mother nature in the process of baptism. Do you know that unless water is used in baptism, it is not valid. The sacraments are supposed in nature. It used to be Protestant theory that there was no symbiosis of nature and divinity. It’s crept into our Church now it seems.

 

[MagdalenaRita]

Its a bit of an insult to try and force the very spiritual meaning out of the picture because you think it’s idolatrous. They say she can be Mary, she can be Mother Church, mother nature in the process of baptism.

That is a big assumption of what I said because I didn’t say any of that.
I’m not sure what you are implying about mother nature in the process of baptism though.
And i said earlier I thought it represented new life in baptism.

Do you know that unless water is used in baptism, it is not valid. The sacraments are supposed in nature.

Yes I am aware of that.

It used to be Protestant theory that there was no symbiosis of nature and divinity. It’s crept into our Church now it seems

That again is reading way more into what I said.

Again the words you quoted from what I understand are from an ancient baptismal rite.

God bless

 

[Emeraldlady]

Emeraldlady:

You are talking about the Old Testament here. That was prior to Christs coming to illuminate our hearts. The New Testament almost exclusively references idolatry in regard to the sins of the flesh.

Okay, so now I am really surprised to hear this from a Catholic. Are you saying that it is okay to worship pagan idols? because it is not. Never heard what you posted from a Catholic before

While it is true we do not follow the OT Torah laws but the OT moral laws - yes, and that includes the Ten Commandments which Christ said were summed up by loving the Lord your God with all your heart, soul and mind and your neighbor as yourself. That means no worshipping pagan idols.

We don’t worship pagan idols anymore not because we are forbidden by the OT but because we are illuminated by revelation through Christ. People might get superstitious about a pair of socks or the like but once we are illuminated by the Good News, it’s not possible to believe in magic in a material thing anymore.

Fr Hardon who is very orthodox explicates quite a lot about the new way of ‘idolatry’.

Father Hardon defined neopaganism most succinctly as “the idolatry of man as God.” It is a religion because it worships one God: man himself. Neopaganism, in Father’s estimation, is generally described with the “new” term. New theology, new age, new creation.

From a lecture “and the more pious people are, (how I know, how very well I know) the more pious people are, the more they will… oh… how the can drip … what shall I say…. drip with holy water … or reek of incense… convinced they do what God wants! you probe, you scratch, you find out… it’s their will! and in fact, this is the hardest prayer that we can make to God: “Lord, tell me what you want, and not (that negative can be agonizing) and not what I want !””

The author add “The essence of old paganism then is it makes idols of things and worships these things as god. This point is made in the illustration above from the Baltimore catechism showing the various idols.”

Idolatry in the light of Christ is the elevation as self as God. Rejecting any authority above ones own interpretation of things. Anyway read up a bit on how Catholics understand idolatry here.

 

[MagdalenaRita]

author add “The essence of old paganism then is it makes idols of things and worships these things as god. This point is made in the illustration above from the Baltimore catechism showing the various idols.”

This is what we are talking about today. Old paganism.

 

[Margaret_Ann]

Will pm you re your post.

 

[Emeraldlady]

Emeraldlady:

author add “The essence of old paganism then is it makes idols of things and worships these things as god. This point is made in the illustration above from the Baltimore catechism showing the various idols.”

This is what we are talking about today. Old paganism.

What we are talking about is bringing the light of Christ’s revelation to an already spiritual people. Not by insulting and destroying their cultural ways of understanding the divine, but by transforming what truth they already revere by the seed of God in their heart. We are no longer a terrified and superstition people who can’t listen to others. We have Christ who through the Holy Spirit will illuminate them as well.

 

[Crusader13]

Have some pie in the meantime!

Sorry work keeps distracting me.

Trying to serve up some humble pie are ya. Lol

Well all I can say is thank the Lord we still have the Roman Catechism, (the Catechism of the Council of Trent) as some refer to it.

I don’t know why they used that language in this section, but I don’t subscribe to it. There’s no precedent for it to be used in this way, as it appears too ambiguous and ecumenical. Perhaps it was to reference more of the theology of Vatican II.

In any case this poorly worded section which you cited, doesn’t condone or legitimize pagan idolatry. And seeing as how the pagan deification of the mother earth persona predates the ‘92 Catechism, I don’t think it supports the notion that what took place at the synod is somehow justified under section 344 of the CCC.

 

[Emeraldlady]

Can you define what you mean by this? Nature, in itself, is not divine.
[/quote]

It is a tenet of the Catholic Church that “Gratia non tollit naturam, sed perficit” translated as ’ Grace does not destroy nature , but perfects it’ … per Aquinas 800 years ago. His philosophical wisdom was needed at a time when the crusaders were indiscriminately destroying the cultural life of pagans of the time. It was not a godly thing.

 

[Crusader13]

What we are talking about is bringing the light of Christ’s revelation to an already spiritual people. Not by insulting and destroying their cultural ways of understanding the divine, but by transforming what truth they already revere by the seed of God in their heart. We are no longer a terrified and superstition people who can’t listen to others. We have Christ who through the Holy Spirit will illuminate them as well.

Their spirituality is malformed. If we are to illuminate them as to the truth of Christ, then we start by removing all of their stumbling blocks, including their belief in an environmental deity which has no power or positive attributes.

You can’t dismiss the spiritual ramifications of idolatrous practices as merely old world superstitions.

You don’t look at a Quija board and claim that it’s childhood make believe simply because it’s made by Hasbro and sold at Target.

 

[Emeraldlady]

It’s really surprising to see all of these reactions to the synod’s opening ceremony. Lots of people seem to be very superstitious about certain elements of the ceremony. It’s almost unbelievable how many people think that an idol worshipping ceremony took place.

It’s the same sort of superstition and ignorance that marks the accusation against Catholics that we worship statues, and that we shouldn’t have icons in our churches. The really ironic part is that many of the loudest voices in this accusation against the opening ceremony are Protestant converts.

I think this is a good teaching opportunity for some Catholics, especially Protestant converts who seem to have a particular misplaced zeal for defending Catholicism from an enemy that isn’t really there. Or, they’ve been deceived by the real enemy. More likely, they bring projections from their past into Catholicism. I see it constantly on the internet.

The thread moved so fast that I missed your post, 1Lord1Faith, but not a truer word was spoken. The true idolatry is in people giving their own opinion higher authority than the Apostolic Church guarded by the Holy Spirit. It makes you wonder why they are still here considering their defacto divorce from the Magisterium.