America was tricked into anti-Communism

[hays1122]

I don’t know if we were tricked exactly but we sure don’t know how he got into office.
I find it very interesting that the president is suppose to be elected by the majority. Yet I have not met one person or even heard of one who says,“Yea he won!!”. This seems very odd to me.
Who voted for him?
Almost every talk radio topic has been on how they can’t believe he was elected.
It’s too unreal.

 

[JustinR]

When we talk about communism/socialism/marxism/capitaltism we have to remember No system is pure. In communist or socialist systems there are always people in power, the elite, who are above the rest of the people and have a much higher standard of living.

In the US we are not capitalist, with free markets and a fair level playing field for everyone, instead we have mountians of regulations that are enforced with the heavy hand of government, some business are favored and others are not. The NAFTA rules have nothing to do with free trade, but are 40,000+ pages of managed/directed trade, no different than how business in communist systems is planned and managed. Taxes are not fair, even billionaire Warren Buffet said he paid less taxes than his secretary because of the complex tax laws/shelters. Since FDR we have been socialists with the Social Security system and other entitlement systems, and half socialists with the health care system of Medicare, Medicaid, VA Med centers, and CHIP for kids. Now with the bailout the gov’t is nationalizing the banks, The Kelo decision by the Supreme Court is communist, showing the State can take your property and give it to another private person, and decide how little to compensate you.

What distinguishes economic systems is the Force used by the government to get people to comply. As Michelle Obama described sharing her PB&J sandwich on the playground and how we need to spread the wealth around. That was her choice , as opposed to the goven’t telling you Must share. The original post stated that familes share, but that is voluntary. From what O has stated he wants to use force to spread the wealth.

A very popular book to indoctrinate kids into the idea of communism is found in most kindergarten and 1st grades, called Rainbow Fish, where the one fish with all the pretty scales is forced to share with all the other fish who did not have the colors.

 

[averheyen]

Any catholic communists out there?

Communism is, by definition, an objectively immoral political system. That’s why the vatican excommunicated all those communist leaders, like Fidel Castro, back in the 1960s.

In fact, the chatecism speaks out against it directly. Communism is in direct and explicit confilt with the catholic faith. A catholic CANNOT support it. Period.

 

[KingAlfred]

I don’t know if this is the right subforum to post this on, and I hope that the headline caused you to check it out.

America has always been anti-communist/socialist. McCain accused Obama of being a socialist. BUT…

Something I noiced. One of the key tenets of socialism and communism is that the obscenely wealthy should be taxed more than the average working middleclass person, because they can afford it and it is good for the country. HOWEVER: After the Bolshevik revolution in Russia, the wealthy and powerful in America immediatly began setting Americans against communism. Ironically, THESE ARE THE SAME PEOPLE WHO WOULD BE FORCED TO GIVE MORE TO THE COUNTRY AND SOCIAL PROGRAMS, AS WELL AS GIVE UP SOME OF THEIR POWER!

While I would be the first to agree that communist/socialist countries have mostly failed, socialism in theory isn’t a bad system. Just look at kibbutzes in Israel. And even the family practices a type of socialism, sharing and caring for one another, bei ng as equal as possible while still maintaining some hirarchy.

You thoughts apprecialted.

Any catholic communists out there?

Communism is Evil in disguise. Stalin murdered more people than did Hitler.

 

[neat62]

You (those posting on the thread) may do well to read up about social democracy. The systems you would describe as “socialist/commuist” therefore prone to failure are found in most all of the 10 best countries (in terms of standard of living) in the world.

look to Scandinavia!!!

Population of Sweeden: 9,045,389

" Norway: 4,644,457

" Denmark 5,484,723

Total: 19,174,569

Total combined millitary spending for all three(GDP): 4.9% Who provides security for those nations?

Population of US: 303,824,640

The smaller the number, the better socialism works. The larger the number, the worse it is for the people.

 

[narrowpath]

Um…the idea seems to have come up that I’m accusing the Church of being tricked into being anticommunist. I’m not. I said that there are many catholic priests in South America who adhere to the liberation theology beliefs, as well as other communist philosophies. I’m aware of the Church’s position on communism. also, I’ve seen little talk about my comments that a version of socialism is used on kibbutzes, and there it works quite well.

 

[narrowpath]

Population of Sweeden: 9,045,389

" Norway: 4,644,457

" Denmark 5,484,723

Total: 19,174,569

Total combined millitary spending for all three(GDP): 4.9% Who provides security for those nations?

Population of US: 303,824,640

The smaller the number, the better socialism works. The larger the number, the worse it is for the people.

hmmmm good point.

 

[neat62]

hmmmm good point.

I agree, the idea of socialism sounds good. As a matter of fact, it sounds great. And I think it is best used without the use of the government. Government is where socialism get’s really messed up. Socialism is a bleedinghearts Utopia.

 

[Oscarthecat]

Um…the idea seems to have come up that I’m accusing the Church of being tricked into being anticommunist. I’m not. I said that there are many catholic priests in South America who adhere to the liberation theology beliefs, as well as other communist philosophies. I’m aware of the Church’s position on communism. also, I’ve seen little talk about my comments that a version of socialism is used on kibbutzes, and there it works quite well.

A. Liberation Theology has been specifically and explicitly condemned by the Church. Those priests you’re talking about do not represent the Church- they are in dissent. To coin your phrase- liberation theologians have been tricked into communism.

B. No one is talking about the Kibbutz model because you’re comparing apples to cement blocks. Here’s why:
A Kibbutz is not not a nation-state, it is a voluntary community which people can voluntarily join or leave. The voluntary nature of a Kibbutz is a critical component, because the choice to voluntarily participate carries a personal commitment to the values and lifestyle of the community. Communist nations aren’t voluntary, and people can’t simply “opt-out” of participating- in the former USSR they called it “defecting” and it was punishable by death.

 

[tee]

Population of Sweeden: 9,045,389

" Norway: 4,644,457

" Denmark 5,484,723

Total: 19,174,569

Total combined millitary spending for all three(GDP): 4.9% Who provides security for those nations?

Population of US: 303,824,640

The smaller the number, the better socialism works. The larger the number, the worse it is for the people.

I think so too. Socialism works for small population, but not a large population. I think with socialism it’s hard to achieve growth and the economy won’t be as robust.

 

[aspawloski4th]

Better dead then red!

 

[Ruthie]

NarrowPath said,

I was not aware that wealthier americans are taxed - could you provide links about this?

From taxfoundation.org/news/show/250.html

“In 2006, the top 1 percent of tax returns paid 39.9 percent of all federal individual income taxes…”

In other words, the top 1 percent of earners paid almost 40 percent of the total taxes collected.

The socialistic folks would **love **for you to believe the rich pay no taxes. **It’s not true. **

What they’d like you to forget is that the rich people and corporations are the ones who give the rest of us jobs. How many people are employed by Microsoft? Take money away from them with punitive taxes, and people will lose their jobs.

Another example: I gather, for instance, that it takes about 6 people about 3 months to build a fancy yacht. (Statistics based on my fallible memory, from some TV show about shipbuilding.) So when a rich person buys a fancy yacht, they are giving 6 people employment for 3 months. If they wanted to buy a yacht, but instead must use that $ to pay taxes, who loses? Not the rich guy, who can live without a yacht. Not the Government. The more $ they get, the more ways they come up with to spend it.

So, who loses? Yep. You guessed it. The employees of the yacht builder. They lose 1/4 of a year’s wages. And maybe the yacht builder will have to go out of business, too. Then the employees get nothing. I wonder what jobs you can get with experience in yacht building? Oops, they’re back to entry-level, minimum wage jobs. Too bad. But at least we’re punishing the rich and redistributing the wealth. Yeah, right.

Capitalism works. It needs some checks and balances, but it works. That’s why we have the richest poor people in the world.

God bless us all, rich and poor,

Ruthie, the heartless Kapitalissst

 

[thomfra]

That’s why we have the richest poor people in the world.

Ruthie, Ruthie, Where on *earth *did you get this idea from?

 

[thomfra]

I think so too. Socialism works for small population, but not a large population. I think with socialism it’s hard to achieve growth and the economy won’t be as robust.

“social democracy” is not the same as socialism. That’s where the confusion lies.

RE economy: Sweden is a country of 10 million that produces 2 brands of car exported all over the world, and it’s own fighter jets, as well as having one of the highest standards of living on earth. Social democracy works.

 

[Sam_Maloney]

“social democracy” is not the same as socialism. That’s where the confusion lies.

RE economy: Sweden is a country of 10 million that produces 2 brands of car exported all over the world, and it’s own fighter jets, as well as having one of the highest standards of living on earth. Social democracy works.

Works for Sweden, maybe: a relitively small country with an ethnically and culturally homogenous population.

But because the native birthrate is far below replacement level, large numbers of emmigrants are being brought in. They have very different languages, cultures, religious and sexual practices.

It is by no means certain that the Swedish system can survive these strains.

And like the rest of Europe, Sweden has long relied on the threat of American might to keep the imperialistic Russians at bay. They would have a much harder time affording their massive welfare programs if they also had to pay for their own defense.

 

[Oscarthecat]

“social democracy” is not the same as socialism. That’s where the confusion lies.

RE economy: Sweden is a country of 10 million that produces 2 brands of car exported all over the world, and it’s own fighter jets, as well as having one of the highest standards of living on earth. Social democracy works.

There is no significant difference between between outright socialism and a social democracy- both seek the same objectives, they just go about it differently.

Whereas hardcore socialists use torches and pitchforks to steal the means of production from those who earned it, advocates of social democracy use government programs to systematically increase the population of the poor, and then use them as a voting block to steal the means of production from those who earned it.

Frankly, I’d prefer that they just come after me with their torches and pitchforks.

 

[Appleby]

Works for Sweden, maybe: a relitively small country with an ethnically and culturally homogenous population.

But because the native birthrate is far below replacement level, large numbers of emmigrants are being brought in. They have very different languages, cultures, religious and sexual practices.

It is by no means certain that the Swedish system can survive these strains.

And like the rest of Europe, Sweden has long relied on the threat of American might to keep the imperialistic Russians at bay. They would have a much harder time affording their massive welfare programs if they also had to pay for their own defense.

Sweden has the highest teen suicide and alcohilism rate in the civilized world (I have relatives there) because parents are not permitted to punish their children and so just abandon them to their own devices; the State gives them a small stipend for make-work activities that allows them to subsist on their own. Also when you reach retirement age, your money is confiscated and you are moved into a ‘retirement home’ where people quickly die of ennui and neglect. And finally, if you try to emigrate from Sweden, they confiscate 95% of your assets on the way out.

Yep, that sounds like lots of fun to me.

 

[Sheeniac]

Ruthie, Ruthie, Where on *earth *did you get this idea from?

I get it from watching the news and from my travels outside of the US.

I’ve seen true poverty outside of the US, but not inside. We have many safety nets that many other countries do not have.

Being poor is no walk in the park, but I’m not aware of that many people dying from starvation.

As an aside, I do blame the media for much of the resentment of the poor. They portray fantasy as normal life via the entertainment industry. No, I’m not blaming any specific movie or show, but it’s of a subtle, cumulative nature. As my mother used to say: “We were poor when I was growing up, but we didn’t really realize it since everyone around us was poor.”

Personally, I didn’t grow up poor, but definitely teetering on the edge.

 

[Appleby]

Today the Big 3 Automakers who are the major employers in this area have announced that they are closing lines and cutting jobs and going bankrupt.

Downtown in Socialist Kanukistan the students are rioting and demanding free university educations because apparently someone held a gun to their heads and forced them to run up $50,000 in student loans studying binge drinking, rock and roll, and communications and now they realize they are unemployable even if this was a good economy so they think its UNFAIR they have to pay back what they owe.

Where do they think the money for their FREE education is going to come from when everybody and his dog except lawyers and undertakers is unemployed?

They do not think. They are good little socialists and they believe that socialism means you get everything you want the nanosecond you want it and somebody else is REQUIRED to pay. Who else? Ah, that part they are never taught.

 

[tee]

“social democracy” is not the same as socialism. That’s where the confusion lies.

RE economy: Sweden is a country of 10 million that produces 2 brands of car exported all over the world, and it’s own fighter jets, as well as having one of the highest standards of living on earth. Social democracy works.

In mid 1990s Sweden “social democracy” was forced to reform to be more conservative, because its economy was so poor. Its welfare program gets the money from tax its citizen heavily. I believe each worker gets probably about 40% of what he earn only (so you think the US tax too much and wants more welfare programs like some “social democratic” countries. Now the reason it can exports is due to its willing to privatize and deregulating. In fact, only privatized companies has significant contribution to the economy. In actuality, present day Sweden does not hold a pure “social democracy” ideology and it’s now a parliamentary democracy.