America was tricked into anti-Communism

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narrowpath

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I don’t know if this is the right subforum to post this on, and I hope that the headline caused you to check it out.

America has always been anti-communist/socialist. McCain accused Obama of being a socialist. BUT…

Something I noiced. One of the key tenets of socialism and communism is that the obscenely wealthy should be taxed more than the average working middleclass person, because they can afford it and it is good for the country. HOWEVER: After the Bolshevik revolution in Russia, the wealthy and powerful in America immediatly began setting Americans against communism. Ironically, THESE ARE THE SAME PEOPLE WHO WOULD BE FORCED TO GIVE MORE TO THE COUNTRY AND SOCIAL PROGRAMS, AS WELL AS GIVE UP SOME OF THEIR POWER!

While I would be the first to agree that communist/socialist countries have mostly failed, socialism in theory isn’t a bad system. Just look at kibbutzes in Israel. And even the family practices a type of socialism, sharing and caring for one another, bei ng as equal as possible while still maintaining some hirarchy.

You thoughts apprecialted.

Any catholic communists out there?😉
 
Those who give paychecks, and indirectly those who are in charge of taxes are the ones at the moment. I am not against wealth. But I think that if you have the money, you should do more than, say, a lower middle class person to help the country.
 
As a Canadian, you may be unaware that wealthy Americans ARE taxed more than middle class, both in total and as a percentage.

In fact, 60% of Americans pay no federal income tax at all.

As to being ‘tricked’ into anti-Communism: which nation do you suppose has done better since 1917, USA or USSR? Why do you think the people who have more freedom and prosperity were ‘tricked’ into making the clearly better choice?

As to ‘Catholic Communist’: no such thing. You have to choose Christ or Marx, you can’t have both: just ask Karl.
 
Maybe a better title would be “Has America been seriously msinformed about communism?” I was not aware that wealthier americans are taxed - could you provide links about this? I do know that Karl Marx was very anti-God and religion, but I wonder if socialism could be fixed (for lack of a better word) so that it wouldn’t need to be like that. It does work when small groups practice it (like I said - read about the kibbutzes in Israel). Also, there are many catholic priests in South america who are communist. Does the church have any documents on it?
 
The USA of course. I said that most if not all countries which practiced communism have failed.
 
Communism never works, look at all that the countries that fell to communism. Communism persecuted millions of people of faith especially Christian. They turn family member against each other. They believe in making the public stupid because that’s the only way they can control the mass. They hate religious groups because they believe that’s a source of power which can go against them. They don’t let people assemble, and that’s why they don’t like the church and force truth faithful church to go underground like in China. If you want to live peace, well then submit to them instead of the pope. They control all communication. Human rights? forget it. Property rights? Forget it. Everyone financial equally? Sure…everyone will be poor that why they’re all equal. Everything belongs to the states or what they say “to the people” but does the people ever see a dime of it? No way…

If you can modify it then it’s not communism.
 
narrowpath said:
Also, there are many catholic priests in South america who are communist. Does the church have any documents on it?
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If they’re communist, then they are appointed by the communist state and not the Holy See, and thus they’re not the true Roman Catholic Priest.
 
And trust me, I don’t need document for these stuff. I lived in one.
 
narrowpath said:
Maybe a better title would be “Has America been seriously msinformed about communism?” I was not aware that wealthier americans are taxed - could you provide links about this? I do know that Karl Marx was very anti-God and religion, but I wonder if socialism could be fixed (for lack of a better word) so that it wouldn’t need to be like that. It does work when small groups practice it (like I said - read about the kibbutzes in Israel). Also, there are many catholic priests in South america who are communist. Does the church have any documents on it?
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At the risk of being harsh, you are quite un-informed on several of the issues you raised in your initial post, and I don’t feel the need to educate you.

This information you seek is everywhere, if you just look.

I would gently suggest that you should have done this research before writing your original post.
 
narrowpath said:
IHOWEVER: After the Bolshevik revolution in Russia, the wealthy and powerful in America immediatly began setting Americans against communism. Ironically, THESE ARE THE SAME PEOPLE WHO WOULD BE FORCED TO GIVE MORE TO THE COUNTRY AND SOCIAL PROGRAMS, AS WELL AS GIVE UP SOME OF THEIR POWER!
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Might ask some of the Russian/Ukrainian immigrants just how being “equal” under communism was. They voted with their feet once the wall was down.
While I would be the first to agree that communist/socialist countries have mostly failed, socialism in theory isn’t a bad system. Just look at kibbutzes in Israel. And even the family practices a type of socialism, sharing and caring for one another, bei ng as equal as possible while still maintaining some hirarchy.
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Even Christian “communism” didn’t work out that well. Read about Ananias and Sapphira in Acts.
Any catholic communists out there?😉
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Wut??? :confused:
 
You (those posting on the thread) may do well to read up about social democracy. The systems you would describe as “socialist/commuist” therefore prone to failure are found in most all of the 10 best countries (in terms of standard of living) in the world.

look to Scandinavia!!!
 
You should read the encyclical “Rerum Novarum” which was written in response to the growth of communism in the early 20th century.

It does a great job of pointing out the many inherent fatal flaws of communist ideology. Chief among those flaws is that the system absolutely requires that the state have almost unlimited power to seize, allocate and redistribute wealth. Fallen human nature is such that that amount power power concentrated at the state makes it absolutely inevitable that the government will become corrupt and unjust. Actually, those South American priests you mentioned (Liberation Theology) ought to read it as well.

It also points out the failings and pitfalls of capitalism quite nicely. When capitalism is practiced free of checks and balances, wealth is inevitably concentrated in the hands of a few faster than value is added through the process of labor and ingenuity. Eventually that too results in excessive power and tyranny when wealth is concentrated in the hands of too few (and IMO we ARE headed in that direction in America).

The ideal is an economy with free enterprise, private ownership of assets and economic growth rate that is at least as fast as the return rate earned by the investor class.
 
manualman said:
You should read the encyclical “Rerum Novarum” which was written in response to the growth of communism in the early 20th century.

It does a great job of pointing out the many inherent fatal flaws of communist ideology. Chief among those flaws is that the system absolutely requires that the state have almost unlimited power to seize, allocate and redistribute wealth. Fallen human nature is such that that amount power power concentrated at the state makes it absolutely inevitable that the government will become corrupt and unjust. Actually, those South American priests you mentioned (Liberation Theology) ought to read it as well.
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I was thing the same thing. I guess the OP can accuse the Catholic Church of the same thing.
 
So you believe that Church teaching as outlined in Rerum Novarum is erroneous and shows that the Church was “tricked into anti-communism?” I’m genuinely not following this.

As for the reference to Scandanavia, those economies are built on sand. The tax rate is so punitive there that nobody risks starting new businesses. The tax burden is so large and entitlement programs so bloated that they are all ticking time bombs economically. I have a BIL who worked there for years and the brightest and most ambitious of them generally emigrate somewhere with less tax burden.
 
narrowpath said:
I don’t know if this is the right subforum to post this on, and I hope that the headline caused you to check it out.

America has always been anti-communist/socialist. McCain accused Obama of being a socialist. BUT…

Something I noiced. One of the key tenets of socialism and communism is that the obscenely wealthy should be taxed more than the average working middleclass person, because they can afford it and it is good for the country. HOWEVER: After the Bolshevik revolution in Russia, the wealthy and powerful in America immediatly began setting Americans against communism. Ironically, THESE ARE THE SAME PEOPLE WHO WOULD BE FORCED TO GIVE MORE TO THE COUNTRY AND SOCIAL PROGRAMS, AS WELL AS GIVE UP SOME OF THEIR POWER!

While I would be the first to agree that communist/socialist countries have mostly failed, socialism in theory isn’t a bad system. Just look at kibbutzes in Israel. And even the family practices a type of socialism, sharing and caring for one another, bei ng as equal as possible while still maintaining some hirarchy.

You thoughts apprecialted.

Any catholic communists out there?😉
Click to expand...
Wow, you are grossly misinformed about the nature of communism and socialism.

Unjust taxation of the rich is only a side-effect of these systems- the reasons communist systems are morally repugnant systems because are that they rob the individual of the fruits of his or her labor, they deny the right of individuals to own private property, which is a prerequisite of self-sufficiency, and they substitute the unjust consolidation of financial power, which has its own flaws and trappings, with an equally unjust consolidation of political and social power to distribute wealth and resources.

But more than all of those, which are sufficient on their own to mark the immoral nature of communism, is that communism and socialism are compulsory systems. Those values taught by the Church that so many claim are socialist or communist are differentiated by the fact that the Church requires that all people be able to FREELY CHOOSE to share their possessions and helping the poor, and never compelled by force or threat of force.

You need to read Rerum Novarum, with particular attention to paragraphs 4-14.
 
The Marxists created the concept of the “new man.” There would be a new social order and everything would fall into place. After the economic collapse in America which spread to the rest of the world, some Russian immigrants went back to Russia. Roosevelt started the Works Projects Administration and the Nazis started the German Labor Corps and Reich Labor Service.

The Russians infiltrated American industry and government. See the Overman Committee and the Dies Committee. See Elizabeth Bentley. Also, the Gregory Case. And the Amerasia Company. During World War II, infiltration occurred at the Office of War Information, the Office of Strategic Services and the Board of Economic Warfare.

There was no trick. The Russians infiltrated the Manhatten Project as well.

Peace,
Ed
 
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