America: What Did We Do Wrong?

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re: war.

It’s high time the whole Secret CIA Prison System and “We Kind-Of Do Torture, and We Kind of Have Others Do It For Us” foolishness gets exposed and ended!

The US shouldn’t be about torture for many reasons; secret prisons and torture recall Lubjanka, the Gulag, etc.
 
manualman said:
I’m not sure you’ve appreciated the mass and scale involved here of the two buildings in question. You’re simply not going to be able to quantify everything that was in those buildings and whether they should have been or not.
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But when it comes to explosive and incendiary materials, there’s a building code (NFPA Code 921) which prescribes investigation for explosive and incendiary residues. Also, let’s not forget WTC7. The truth is that three buildings collapsed, not two. WTC7 was not hit by an airplane.

However, the point of the airplanes is moot, in a sense. Just because airplanes slammed into WTC1 and WTC2, that fact does not excuse the authorities from investigating for explosive and incendiary residues in all three buildings that experienced fire and collapse, namely WTC1, WTC2, and WTC7.

What we are experiencing is a dereliction of duty, and some legal experts say that it’s a criminal dereliction of duty, because all three buildings should have been investigated for explosive and incendiary residues, no ifs and buts about it. Apparently the authority that should have done this is NIST (National Institute for Standards and Technology).

Quote from benthamscience.com/open/tociej/articles/V002/35TOCIEJ.pdf :

The Open Civil Engineering Journal, 2008, 2, 35-40
Fourteen Points of Agreement with Official Government Reports on the
World Trade Center Destruction
Steven E. Jones*,1, Frank M. Legge2
, Kevin R. Ryan3
, Anthony F. Szamboti*,4 and James R.
Gourley5

The US Congress laid out the charge specifically to the
National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) to
“Determine why and how WTC 1 and WTC 2 collapsed fol-
lowing the initial impacts of the aircraft and why and how
WTC 7 collapsed”
[1]. The Federal Emergency Management
Agency (FEMA) was acting with a similar motivation in
their earlier study of these tragic collapses [2]. NIST and
FEMA were not charged with finding out how fire was the
specific agent of collapse, yet both evidently took that lim-
ited approach while leaving open a number of unanswered
questions.

14. Search for Explosive or Thermite Residues
From a NIST FAQ: [Question: ] “Did the NIST investi-
gation look for evidence of the WTC towers being brought
down by controlled demolition? Was the steel tested for ex-
plosives or thermite residues? The combination of thermite
and sulfur (called thermate) “slices through steel like a hot
knife through butter.” [Answer: ] NIST did not test for the
residue of these compounds in the steel” [3].

We agree; there is no evidence that NIST tested for resi-
dues of thermite or explosives. This is another remarkable
admission. Probing for residues from pyrotechnic materials
including thermite in particular, is specified in fire and ex-
plosion investigations by the NFPA 921 code:

Unusual residues might remain from the initial
fuel. Those residues could arise from thermite,
magnesium, or other pyrotechnic materials [26].

Traces of thermite in residues (solidified slag, dust, etc.)
would tell us a great deal about the crime and the cause of
thousands of injuries and deaths. This is standard procedure
for fire and explosion investigations. Perhaps NIST will ex-
plain why they have not looked for these residues? The code
specifies that fire-scene investigators must be prepared to
justify an exclusion [26].

NIST has been asked about this important issue recently,
by investigative reporter Jennifer Abel:

Abel: "…what about that letter where NIST said it
didn’t look for evidence of explosives?” Neuman
[spokesperson at NIST, listed on the WTC report]:
“Right, because there was no evidence of that.”
Abel: But how can you know there’s no evidence if
you don’t look for it first? Neuman: "If you’re
looking for something that isn’t there, you’re wast-
ing your time… and the taxpayers’ money.” [27].

The evident evasiveness of this answer might be humor-
ous if not for the fact that NIST’s approach here affects the
lives of so many innocent people. We do not think that look-
ing for thermite or other residues specified in the NFPA 921
code is “wasting your time.” We may be able to help out
here as well, for we have looked for such residues in the
WTC remains using state-of-the-art analytical methods, es-
pecially in the voluminous toxic dust that was produced as
the buildings fell and killed thousands of people, and the
evidence for thermite use is mounting. [13, 22]

We agree that the collapse
of the 47-story WTC 7 (which was not hit by a jet) is hard to
explain from the point of view of a fire-induced mechanism
and that NIST has refused (so far) to look for residues of
explosives [3, 22, 27].​
 
manualman said:
I know nothing about chemistry. But I’m a civil engineer and I build things for a living. Nothing about the collapse of those buildings was surprising or suspicious to me.
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You would probably agree, however, that the concerns of those who saw suspicious things should not be brushed under the carpet:

-before the collapse, molten steel was pooring out of the South Tower - see youtube video entitled - 9/11: South Tower Molten Metal & Collapse - see here: youtube.com/watch?v=gPu9IqBfMIw

How do we know it was steel and not aluminum? simple - molten aluminum has a silvery color. This was molten steel with a yellowish color, and this was the first red flag.

According to NIST’s own admission, the fuel and office fires were not hot enough to melt steel - see quote again from the “Fourteen Points…” paper at benthamscience.com/open/tociej/articles/V002/35TOCIEJ.pdf :

**7. Fires of Short Duration **
NIST: “The initial jet fuel fires themselves lasted at most
a few minutes” [4]. “At any given location, the duration of
[air, not steel] temperatures near 1,000 °C was about 15 min
to 20 min. The rest of the time, the calculated temperatures
were near 500 °C or below” [4].

We agree. But then, given that the fires were brief and
patchy, how did both towers experience sudden-onset failure
of structural steel over a broad area in each tower and how
could the collapses of all three WTC high-rises have been so
symmetrical and complete? [13, 14, 17]
We seek discussion
on these points.

**8. WTC Fires Did Not Melt Steel **
NIST: “In no instance did NIST report that steel in the
WTC towers melted due to the fires. The melting point of
steel is about 1,500 degrees Celsius (2,800 degrees Fahren-
heit). Normal building fires and hydrocarbon (e.g., jet fuel)
fires generate temperatures up to about 1,100 degrees Cel-
sius (2,000 degrees Fahrenheit). NIST reported maximum
upper layer air temperatures of about 1,000 degrees Celsius
(1,800 degrees Fahrenheit) in the WTC towers (for example,
see NCSTAR 1, figure 6-36)” [3].

Agreed. We also find agreement with Prof. Thomas Ea-
gar on this point:

The fire is the most misunderstood part of the
WTC collapse. Even today, the media report (and
many scientists believe) that the steel melted. It is
argued that the jet fuel burns very hot, especially
with so much fuel present. This is not true… The
temperature of the fire at the WTC was not un-
usual, and it was most definitely not capable of
melting steel [18].

We are in remarkable agreement, then: the WTC fires
were not capable of melting steel. Of course, NIST then may
have trouble explaining the molten material flowing out of
the South Tower just before its collapse, as well as evidence
for temperatures much higher than NIST’s reported 1,100 °C
[13]. We offer to discuss explanations for the observed high
temperatures.
​

So, what was the factor that melted steel in the WTC towers, if not the jet fuel and office fires?

Here’s more evidence of molten steel in the rubble of the WTC - including steel and concrete molten together as in a furnace, two steel beams molten together in the shape of a cross, etc - see youtube video below:

youtube.com/watch?v=8YaFGSPErKU

I hope I successfully demonstrated that there were serious reasons to suspect foul play, e.g. from the evidence of molten steel.

That’s how chemists got involved, and they started finding tiny steel droplets in the dust that covered Manhattan, i.e. droplets of 0.1 to 1 mm size, indicative of steel that was molten and re-solidified. These droplets were everywhere in the dust. Even spookier, smaller droplets of micrometer size were also prevalent in the dust, indicating that these came from steel that was vaporized and re-solidified. Yep, steel that was vaporized by the heat.

Even before the un-reacted nano thermite (nano composite) material was conclusively demonstrated by a team of international scientists, there was already solid proof of molten steel and even vaporized steel all over in the rubble and dust that covered Manhattan after the WTC collapse, and that simply should have never happened in an ordinary jet fuel and office material fire. Jet fuel and office materials (paper, furniture, carpets) simply do not burn hot enough to melt and vaporize steel.
 
manualman said:
  1. Gravity pulls straight down, not sideways. When a building has widespread compromises in the vertical structural integrity of its systems, it falls DOWN. Tilting during falling really only happens in the movies. Buildings don’t have the lateral structural strength to be accelerated sideways, regardless of local forces involved. They fall down.
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The problem is, huge steel beams were ejected as far as 600 feet away from WTC1 and 2, and it has been calculated that the initial velocity of these beams was more than 70 mph, in a lateral direction. So, what was the force that ejected these beams and girdles? - It was an explosion. With simple gravitational collapse, nothing should have been ejected like that.

Also, windows were broken as far away as 400 feet from the buildings, apparently by some sort of shock wave during the collapse. Once again, that has never happened in other building fires. The fact that windows were broken by a shock wave propagating through the air, 400 feet away, indicates that explosion/explosions were taking place while the buildings were collapsing.

See youtube video entitled - High Speed Massive Projectiles from the WTC on 9/11 - see here youtube.com/watch?v=eHnLlwqiu0A

See youtube video entitled - World Trade Center Twin Towers: Pulverization and Ejection of Contents - see here youtube.com/watch?v=5G9KohEx9N4

See also this letter www2.ae911truth.org/downloads/Letter_to_Shyam_Sunder_-_7-20-09a.pdf?format=pdf from the organization Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth - quote:

July 20, 2009

Re: Request for meeting regarding NIST Reports - WTC7 and Twin Towers

Dear Dr. Sunder,

We have heard you state publicly after the WTC 7 press conference that it “would not be
productive” for you to meet with the Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth. This is quite
disappointing – as we now have over 700 architects and engineers at AE911Truth calling for a
real investigation into the destruction of the three World Trade Center high-rises on 9/11. At
what point will you take us seriously? Perhaps when our rapidly growing numbers reach 1,000
A/E’s?

Here are our talking points:

 Why did more than 100 FDNY first responders describe, in great detail, the sounds of
explosions and flashes of light that they saw and heard just before and during each
tower’s collapse? Why did we not know about these thousands of pages of FDNY “oral
history” evidence until August, 2005 – and only then after a court order for their release?
FDNY’s own Chief of Safety, Albert Turi, and FDNY’s chief, Ray Downey, the
“premiere collapse expert in the country” according to a fellow chief, both spoke of the
presence of explosives in the Towers prior to their failures. More than 100 testimonies13
referring to multiple, violent explosions were ignored and unreported by the 9/11
Commission, NIST and FEMA.

 What was the energy source, and through what mechanism was it applied, that pulverized
400,000 cubic yards of concrete into a fine powder14 in mid-air that blanketed
Manhattan? Calculations15 show that the energy requirement for this pulverization and
the rapid expansion of the subsequent dust clouds was far greater than the available
gravitational potential energy of the structures. This simple energy imbalance alone
proves the official explanation impossible. Is this the same energy source that is
responsible for the vaporization of more than 10,000 steel file cabinets and 1,100 human
bodies that were never found, not even the smallest traces of DNA?

 How were 4 ton steel members ejected16 from the Twin Towers at 70 miles per hour –
and landing 600 feet away? A simple gravitational collapse would only allow up to 100
feet of “drift,” so what provided the energy required?

 Why were virtually no floors found17 at the base of either Twin Tower? There were
originally 110 floors in each Tower – each of them one acre in size. What explains the
disappearance of 220 acres of four-inch thick concrete (180,000 tons) and the steel
decking and trusses?

 What caused the explosive ejections of pulverized building materials18 as many as 60
stories below the rapidly descending “collapse” of each Tower? These so-called “squibs”
can be seen in many publicly available videos and show materials being ejected at over
160 feet per second.

 Why were most windows within 400 feet of each Twin Tower blown out19? This has
never been observed following other gravitational collapses. What was the energy source
here?

 Why has an international team of scientists found nanothermitic explosives residue20 (not
ordinary thermite) in the World Trade Center dust? NIST has refused to test for
explosives residue, saying that such tests “would not necessarily have been conclusive.”21
This was clearly nonsense, even before others found the residue, especially since NIST
did not test for ANY kind of explosives residue. NFPA 921 requires such testing when
there is “high order damage,” as there obviously was at the World Trade Center, and it
mentions ordinary thermite by name. Even if NFPA 921 is considered a guideline and not
a law, the failure to follow it in this case is inexcusable, and might very well have helped
allow as-yet unknown perpetrators to escape justice. See also his “Wake Up and Smell
the Aluminothermic Nanocomposite Explosives,” 3/3/09.
 
And here’s one more quote from the above letter - it’s really damning - quote from www2.ae911truth.org/downloads/Letter_to_Shyam_Sunder_-_7-20-09a.pdf?format=pdf :

 Why couldn’t the NIST investigative team that was brought aboard specifically to
determine the cause of the destruction of the WTC high-rises find the above materials in
the dust? After all they were experts with the nano-composite explosives – having
developed them in the first place. Consult these NIST project leaders: Forman Williams,
Stephen Margolis, Arden Bement, Hratch Semerjian, Michael Zachariah, Richard Gann,
Andrzej Miziolek, at these corporations and institutions: Science Applications
International (SAIC), University of Maryland College Park (UMCP), NIST’s Center for
Nanoscale Science and Technology, Naval Surface Warfare Center at Indian Head
(NSWC-IH), and the NIST’s Reactive Flows Group. These “Top Ten Connections
Between NIST and Nano-Thermites,” by Kevin Ryan are documented at the Journal of
9/11 Studies, July 2, 2008. journalof911studies.com/volume/2008/-
Ryan_NIST_and_Nano-1.pdf

Quote from 911review.com/articles/ryan/nist_thermite_connection.html :

The Top Ten Connections Between
NIST and Nano-Thermites

KEVIN R. RYAN

July 2, 2008

“Was the steel tested for explosives or thermite residues? . . . NIST did not test for the residue of these compounds in the steel.” – NIST Responses to FAQs, August 2006

The National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) has had considerable difficulty determining a politically correct sequence of events for the unprecedented destruction of three World Trade Center (WTC) buildings on 9/11 (Douglas 2006, Ryan 2006, Gourley 2007). But despite a number of variations in NIST’s story, it never considered explosives or pyrotechnic materials in any of its hypotheses. This omission is at odds with several other striking facts; first, the requirement of the national standard for fire investigation (NFPA 921), which calls for testing related to thermite and other pyrotechnics, and second, the extensive experience NIST investigators have with explosive and thermite materials.
 
manualman said:
I know nothing about chemistry. But I’m a civil engineer and I build things for a living. Nothing about the collapse of those buildings was surprising or suspicious to me.
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Here’s a real quick graphic story of what was suspicious - these 2 pictures tell the story in a nutshell - quote from 911research.wtc7.net/wtc/analysis/theories/thermite.html :

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
The spout of orange molten metal and rising white smoke emerging form the South Tower have the appearance of a thermite reaction.

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
An iron-rich sphere found in dust form the Twin Towers. The solidified droplet indicates temperatures in excess of the melting point of iron (2795ºF).

Thermite

Theories that Aluminothermic Materials Were Used to Destroy the Twin Towers

The idea that thermite or similar preparations were used exclusively or in combination with other methods to destroy the Twin Towers remained unexamined for several years after the attack, despite its merits.

…see link given above for the rest of this short article.
 
So, to summarize:

America: What Did We Do Wrong?

9/11 was an inside job, perpetrated by rogue elements within our own government, and military-industrial-intelligence complex.

These same rogue elements duped us into unjust wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, based on a big hoax - the 9/11 hoax in which Osama bin Laden and the Arabs were patsies at most.

Here’s an eye-opening lecture by former CIA asset and whistleblower Susan Lindauer, regarding how the CIA knew about the planned WTC attack as far in advance as April 2001, how it was clear that Saddam Hussein’s Iraq was not involved, and how President Bush was nevertheless hell-bent to take us into war against Iraq - see Susan Lindauer’s lecture here - click the youtube link below the picture:



youtube.com/watch?v=G43zl4fzDQg

Quote from youtube video description:

Extreme Prejudice - CIA Whistle Blower Susan Lindauer PDX 911Truth

Amazing testimony of ex CIA Asset Susan Lindauer. 5 years of legal troubles, 1 year in prison for daring to tell the truth. During the Bush era the top controllers of the governmental mechanics of Defense and national Security wanted to have a war with Iraq. They got their wish and anyone who got in the way were dealt with severely no matter if they violated a law or not. Not brought to trial she was jailed under the “Patriot Act” which amounted to summary punishment outside a Verdict in a court of law. She was punished in jail without a Trial at all This is part of her story that is just unfolding now. She has waited 10 years to tell this story.
 
Captain_America said:
re: war.

It’s high time the whole Secret CIA Prison System and “We Kind-Of Do Torture, and We Kind of Have Others Do It For Us” foolishness gets exposed and ended!

The US shouldn’t be about torture for many reasons; secret prisons and torture recall Lubjanka, the Gulag, etc.
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I will add to this - see what happened to CIA whistleblower Susan Lindauer - locked in a secret prison under the Patriot Act, under President Bush, without a trial.

They wanted to lock her away and “throw away the keys”, because she dared to speak out about the truth on 9/11, and against our unjust war in Iraq which was based on the 9/11 hoax.

 
With all Ive seen regarding 9-11 and all the events surrounding it, I tend to think the ‘official’ story is FAR FAR from accurate, I think there was probably alot of people and money involved.
 
And there’s no difference between Republicans and Democrats. Bush’s administration covered up the truth and used 9/11 to trick America into war - Obama’s administration continues the cover-up. Bush was a war monger, Obama is a war monger. We don’t have a real choice and our votes don’t make a difference, because both parties are pushing the same agenda.
 
Wait, why would Bush want us to get in a useless war? I mean, I agree that the wars were unjust and idiotic, but I don’t believe that blowing up the twin towers was done by the government.
 
I would like to draw your attention to the youtube video link in post #87 - an interview with former CIA asset and government back channel to Iraq - Susan Lindauer. According to Ms Lindauer, the CIA negotiated a comprehensive peace framework with Iraq already in the year 2000, during President Clinton’s administration. This comprehensive peace framework included weapons inspections in Iraq, and Iraq invited the FBI to travel to Baghdad and investigate any terror threats, including empowering the FBI to make arrests in Iraq as necessary. According to Ms Lindauer, not only wasn’t Iraq a terror threat to us, but it was a strong ally against terrorists, as strange as that sounds to the misinformed public. But I really advise you to watch a couple of the long interviews with Ms. Lindauer, they are easy to find on youtube.

Also, Ms. Lindauer made a great effort to contact the offices of Senators John McCain and Trent Lott after 9/11, to let them know that Iraq was not a terror threat or WMD threat to us - in fact, Iraq already agreed to WMD inspections and invited the FBI to travel to Iraq and investigate any possible terrorist leads on the ground, inside of Iraq.

Well, Ms. Lindauer got arrested and locked up in a secret prison, because the Bush administration wanted their war in Iraq, and Ms. Lindauer was standing in their way when she made waves, trying to inform and persuade US Senators about the real situation - namely, that Iraq posed zero threat to us, in regards of WMD and terrorist cells.

Anyway, please watch the interview with Susan Lindauer, see link in post #87.

Regarding the question of who blew up the twin towers - it was someone who had access to an extremely sophisticated nano composite material, a military grade weapon based on this nano composite or nano thermite. And not too many countries on the face of the Earth have access to this material. If the US government truly wanted to know who prepared a nano composite material containing aluminum nano particles of hexagonal shape, 40 nanometers thick and 1000 nm in diameter, they wouldn’t need to search for long… Only a handful of laboratories have the cabability, on the face of the Earth, to prepare aluminum nano particles, and this sort of nano composite…

As a matter of fact, the US government probably knows exactly, as we speak, who prepared that nano composite material. But they are not telling us who did it.
 
CrossofChrist said:
Wait, why would Bush want us to get in a useless war? I mean, I agree that the wars were unjust and idiotic, but I don’t believe that blowing up the twin towers was done by the government.
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OLP4US also mentioned WTC7 which I think they’ve admitted was a controlled demolition, albeit admited several years after the fact and hoping that the collapse of WT7 was forgotten.

youtube.com/watch?v=8T2_nedORjw
 
M1Garand said:
What a bunch of foolish nonsense. America is its people who have NOT failed in any way. We are a diverse melting pot of 400 million people and we prosper like no other country or peoples in history. There is no true poverty in this country, no run away communicable diseases, no wide spread sectarian violence or war, no starvation, and woman are equals. Our so called poor own cars, tvs, $400 cell phones and are so fat the biggest treat to them is type II diabetes. Everyone who wishes to avail themselves of it have health care that is the finest in the world. This country protects the world and maintains a level of stability and global peace that is unprecedented. Natural disasters are shaken off without violence or a break down in order. The government so called shuts down and life for 99.99% of America does not miss a beat.

I suggest those of you in perpetual self loathing about this country turn off the internet, shut off the TV and go out into the world and see how the other half lives. If you are obsessed with the moral transgression of America I suggest you compare it to the rest of the world or better yet mind your own beam before pointing out others specs. GOD BLESS AMERICA!
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Are you being sarcastic. I can’t tell for but it sounds like it
so if you are being sarcastic 👍

if not :eek:
 
OurLadyPray4US said:
Well, Ms. Lindauer got arrested and locked up in a secret prison, because the Bush administration wanted their war in Iraq, and Ms. Lindauer was standing in their way when she made waves, trying to inform and persuade US Senators about the real situation - namely, that Iraq posed zero threat to us, in regards of WMD and terrorist cells.

Anyway, please watch the interview with Susan Lindauer, see link in post #87.
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That’s an extremely cynical view of Bush. I may dislike Obama but I don’t think so lowly of him that he would do anything like this either.

And I don’t really want to watch an hour and a half long video. 🤷
 
The United States of America is the most evil country on the face of the Earth and George Bush is the devil. :rolleyes: Get a life!
 
CrossofChrist said:
Ok. But that proves Bush was responsible how?
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We see the “smoking gun” evidence of molten steel, tiny re-solidified iron droplets, and finally the high-tech nano composite material, nano thermite, which really seals the deal.

Why is NIST (National Institute on Standards and Technology) stonewalling on the evidence?

NIST has been called out by scientists and engineers in open letters and editorials in scientific-engineering journals: why is NIST ignoring the evidence? Why is NIST committing a dereliction of duty, by refusing to investigate for residues of explosive and incendiary materials, in the WTC rubble?

I don’t know how exactly NIST’s strange behavior is linked to the highest leaders of the USA, including Presidents Bush and Obama. Are our presidents too uninformed, are they too unintelligent, or are they involved in a deliberate cover-up of the truth?

Let anyone draw their own conclusions.

Meanwhile, the smoking gun evidence, or the “elephant in the room”, is out there.

And rather strangely, NIST is ignoring the elephant in the room. President Bush ignored the elephant in the room, and President Obama continues ignoring the elephant in the room.

I expect more from the President of the USA. I expect the President of the USA to be on top of things, especially things this weighty. There’s no excuse for a President of the USA, whether Republican or Democrat, I don’t care, to ignore something this big.
 
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