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Elzee
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Only if Bruskewitz and Burke are elevated to Cardinal.
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Nohome
Guest
The Vatican has always had a love/hate relation with the United States. They hate the dissent, but love the financial support. It would be foolish to say this is all about money, but it would be equally foolish to say money has nothing to do with it.
To ignore the United States or allow it to be under represented in the Conclave is to jepardize between 1/3 and 1/2 of the Vatican’s annual budget. The fluctuation has more to do with the changing value of the dollar than the changing giving habits of America. No other country comes close to America’s financial support of the Vatican.
The United States also has a lot of Catholics, third behind Brazil and the Phillippines, so it makes sense that America’s influence on the conclave grows.
But your question is “is this a good thing”? That remains to be seen. Italy still has a strong hold and the collective group of non-American Cardinals is great enough to trump any undue influence. Good? Maybe not, but definately not a bad thing.
Nohome
To ignore the United States or allow it to be under represented in the Conclave is to jepardize between 1/3 and 1/2 of the Vatican’s annual budget. The fluctuation has more to do with the changing value of the dollar than the changing giving habits of America. No other country comes close to America’s financial support of the Vatican.
The United States also has a lot of Catholics, third behind Brazil and the Phillippines, so it makes sense that America’s influence on the conclave grows.
But your question is “is this a good thing”? That remains to be seen. Italy still has a strong hold and the collective group of non-American Cardinals is great enough to trump any undue influence. Good? Maybe not, but definately not a bad thing.
Nohome
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bones_IV
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I’m not the pope obviously. If that’s the men that pope chose, so be it. I think Cardinal Pell or Cardinal Arinze should be the next pope in my personal opinion. The way that news is relayed over there in the Vatican needs to change! I think that some of those Cardinals and Bishops need to be more upfront w/ the Holy Father instead of skating around the bush. I think the Vatican needs to realize that you can’t ignore what the media says and continue to do what needs to be done. That’s the wrong attitude. John Paul II understood the affects the media had on people. The Vatican needs to do a better job of this.
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OriginalJS
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I think it is about time. The United States has been shut out for too long. Europe is, for now, pretty much a lost cause and Africa is an economic and military basket case. The Phillipines are a basket case, period, whose financial support is microscopic. I hope the United States can begin to exert some real influence.
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Elzee
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We’ve shut ourselves out.
The spine and faithfulness many orthodox Catholics in this country feel the USCCB lacks along with the blatant lack of adherence to Catholic teaching by priests shows the bishops in this country, as a whole, should probably NOT have a growing influence in the Church.
Just take a look at the threads on this forum about Holy Cross College in Massachusetts, the Connecticut Bishops and Plan B, and Most Holy Redeemer parish in San Francisco - just to name a few. Is this the “Catholic” influence we want? Not me. With the exception of a few of our Bishops I can think of, I am perfectly happy being influenced by Arinze, Pell, and our Holy Father.
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Richardols
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It has been said that if there would ever be an American Pope, you can be sure that the CIA had a hand in it.
Elzee has an excellent point about whether the track record of the American hierarchy should be spread to the rest of Catholicism.
Frankly, I wanted Arinze instead of Ratzinger last time around, and I hope he’ll be the successor - in time.
Elzee has an excellent point about whether the track record of the American hierarchy should be spread to the rest of Catholicism.
Frankly, I wanted Arinze instead of Ratzinger last time around, and I hope he’ll be the successor - in time.
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Nohome
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In the unlikely event that an American were elected Pope, I would think it highly unlikely that such an individual could influence the Bishops in a negative way. Bishops with sound, orthodox training would simply ignore him. Just as unorthodox Bishops ignore the current Pope.
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Teelynn
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Exactly, exactly!! Precious few of OUR bishops at that!
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bones_IV
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As well as the religious and lay people, cause many of them are forfeiting the faith.
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Teelynn
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And the lay people and religious get their direction from the parish priest who in turn gets his direction from the Bishop. The direction comes from the top down. The road to hell is paved with the skulls of bishops.
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Fitz
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A good inflluence, that remains to be seen. It does not have to be a bad influence. There are some far left influenced in our country within our chuch but hopefully they won’t rule the conclave.
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davidc2
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Maybe its to make up for the early 20th century when American Cardinals made a habit of not making it to the Conclave on time (and thus missing the opportunity to participate.)
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Digitonomy
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To be fair, it was a long boat ride.
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Elzee
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In addition, maybe God roughened the seas in this instance instead of calming the waters…
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jimcav
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I’m not sure why you feel uneasy, and I’m not sure I understand the negativity to it shown in this thread
Why should Europe be so dominant in the Catholic heirarchy, when they have obviously somehow failed the faith, by failing to keep their flock? Catholicism is all but dead there, and it’s not likey to come back soon, so the dominance by Europe over Church affairs should also be lessened.
Now I’m guessing that folks here think that the American Bishops are to liberal, and that might be, but the fact is, Catholicism is doing fairly well here, far better than in Europe, so some credit must be given to our Bishops for that.
I’m quite sure we will never see an American Pope, but I’m fine with our growing influence in the Vatican, because we are obviously doiin something right…
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Elzee
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It may depend on what you mean by ‘doing well’. In numbers, yes.
But as I look around at most of the Catholics I know, many do not see a problem with missing Mass on Sunday or Holy Days, they know little about their faith and have no desire to learn it, they don’t think it matters what religion you belong to as long as you love Jesus and are happy with yourself, and, are, for the most part, Cafeteria Catholics who think it is their* right* to determine what they believe and what they don’t believe.
So I disagree that Catholicism is doing fairly well, but I do agree that the credit can be given to many of our Bishops.
I suppose that may sound negative, but I think it’s reality. The Catholic Church in America - while there are pockets that are making orthodox progress - is in desperate need of evangelization. Thank God for apostolates like Catholic Answers and EWTN.
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jimcav
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Well, numbers are important in many ways.
While I see many of the same things that you mention about American Catholics Elzee, the fact that they are still going to Church means that we at least have a chance to change them, we can Catechise them better, and there is hope for the future. In Europe they simply stopped going at all, which will make saving the faith over there much more difficult. Numbers also bring in much needed money for the many good causes of the Catholic Church, which without that, I would hate to think where we would be then! American Catholics are a giving bunch if nothing else!
I think Pope Bendict has his finger on the problems facing our faith, and is making the right moves to help bring back the flock, and keep the ones we still have. The last forty or so years that the Church has experimented with liberalising itself, may seem like a long time to us but it is a mere blip in the course of Church history, and I believe the tide is about to turn back to more traditional Church values again.
On that I do hope I’m right!
While I see many of the same things that you mention about American Catholics Elzee, the fact that they are still going to Church means that we at least have a chance to change them, we can Catechise them better, and there is hope for the future. In Europe they simply stopped going at all, which will make saving the faith over there much more difficult. Numbers also bring in much needed money for the many good causes of the Catholic Church, which without that, I would hate to think where we would be then! American Catholics are a giving bunch if nothing else!
I think Pope Bendict has his finger on the problems facing our faith, and is making the right moves to help bring back the flock, and keep the ones we still have. The last forty or so years that the Church has experimented with liberalising itself, may seem like a long time to us but it is a mere blip in the course of Church history, and I believe the tide is about to turn back to more traditional Church values again.
On that I do hope I’m right!
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Elzee
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I sure do too!The last forty or so years that the Church has experimented with liberalising itself, may seem like a long time to us but it is a mere blip in the course of Church history, and I believe the tide is about to turn back to more traditional Church values again.
On that I do hope I’m right!
I think the tide is turning, also. The young men coming out of our seminaries - the JPII priests - will have a good influence. I’ve experienced 3 such priests in my diocese and they are wonderful. I wish there were more of them. I know the Church will always be and that is has the protection of the Holy Spirit and I never lose hope…but patience is a virtue I’m still working on.
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bones_IV
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I’m just so fed up with the liberalism that exists in the United States. Liberalism makes me sick!I sure do too!
I think the tide is turning, also. The young men coming out of our seminaries - the JPII priests - will have a good influence. I’ve experienced 3 such priests in my diocese and they are wonderful. I wish there were more of them. I know the Church will always be and that is has the protection of the Holy Spirit and I never lose hope…but patience is a virtue I’m still working on.
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