American catholicism and support for Israel?

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TEPO said:
Yes. I believe we do. :onpatrol:
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Tepo,

While you believe I have fallen for the notion of religion, the UN and Dispensationalism as a cause for the existence of Israel…lurkers can see that there are others that have fallen for it too…

Dispensationalism, Israel and the Church [Paperback]
Craig A. Blaising (Author), Darrell L. Bock
(Author), W. Edward Glenny (Author)

Evangelicals and Israel: The Story of American Christian Zionism [Hardcover]
Stephen Spector

These books are available on Amazon…and that makes at least 3 of us that have fallen for the religion thing…:hey_bud:
 
Limerickman said:
You forgot to mention the Christian churches which have been desecrated in Israel and the fact that clergy get spat upon regularly in Israel by the zionist/jewish natives.
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Mate, pull your head in.

Don’t use the term Zionist loosely. Also the term ‘native’ is derogatory.

I understand you are emotionally invested in the issue but there are two opposing viewpoints to this story and neither side is blameless.
 
SAVINGRACE said:
Mate, pull your head in.

Don’t use the term Zionist loosely. Also the term ‘native’ is derogatory.

I understand you are emotionally invested in the issue but there are two opposing viewpoints to this story and neither side is blameless.
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Israeli’s are zionists. Mate.
 
Limerickman said:
Israeli’s are zionists. Mate.
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Limerick,

This is true to a point, however not all that live in Israel, that are Israeli, are truly Zionist.

nkusa.org/AboutUs/Zionism/opposition.cfm

WHY ORTHODOX JEWS ARE OPPOSED TO A ZIONIST STATE
Let the truth be declared. The use of the Name “ISRAEL” by that State is a complete falsification. The People of Israel have nothing to do with that State. Zionism and its State have no share and no part in the true ISRAEL.
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There are some that are whinging Israeli’s and some that are non-whinging Israeli’s.🙂
 
SAVINGRACE said:
Um no, not all Israelis are zionists.

There are millions of Jews who oppose zionism and find it incompatible and irreconciliable with being a Jew and/or Judaism.
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eh, who mentioned Jews apart from you?

Re-read what I posted namely Israeli’s are zionists.
 
CopticChristian said:
Tepo,

While you believe I have fallen for the notion of religion, the UN and Dispensationalism as a cause for the existence of Israel…lurkers can see that there are others that have fallen for it too…

Dispensationalism, Israel and the Church [Paperback]
Craig A. Blaising (Author), Darrell L. Bock
(Author), W. Edward Glenny (Author)

Evangelicals and Israel: The Story of American Christian Zionism [Hardcover]
Stephen Spector

These books are available on Amazon…and that makes at least 3 of us that have fallen for the religion thing…:hey_bud:
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It’s all conspiracy theory.

While I do believe there are preachers who preach dispensationalism, I hardly doubt that its ever been popular enough to have influenced national leaders to create an agenda based on those ideals.

I stand by my previous statement… Blame lies on democracy and globalization. It’s all political. Blame the UN.
 
I really do love posts like this. I used to consider myself an ultra right-wing conservative, and to an extent I still am 😃 but since I am converting to Catholicism and I view it as the fullness of truth, I am therefore required to mend by views to the Church, not the other way around. I am not as hard right as I used to be, but now my political ideology is more based in Catholic social teaching.

The thing is, we faithful Catholics are allowed to have differing opinions on matters like this, which I love, since we all have genuine faith in God and his Church, but are still allowed to disagree with each other in good faith, unlike in matters of abortion or contraception.

What drew me away from liberalism in the first place was its just ardent hatred for anything Christian. Come to find out, faithful Catholics can actually support left-leaning causes without killing Christian influence on them.

That’s my two cents. I didn’t really answer the major question, but it was what I was thinking while reading this post.

Peace, and my God go with you all.
 
Limerickman said:
eh, who mentioned Jews apart from you?

Re-read what I posted namely Israeli’s are zionists.
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So only every Jew living in Israel is a “Zionist” then? Oh, I see now -that’s why Palestinians blow up random Jews in Israel… Because they’re all “Zionists”. :rolleyes:
 
Even if every Jew in Israel were a “Zionist”, is that supposed to be bad? What’s wrong with wanting to build a temple? Or is it basically that conspiracy theories get liberals all worked up?
 
TEPO said:
It’s all conspiracy theory.

While I do believe there are preachers who preach dispensationalism, I hardly doubt that its ever been popular enough to have influenced national leaders to create an agenda based on those ideals.

I stand by my previous statement… Blame lies on democracy and globalization. It’s all political. Blame the UN.
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Tepo,

I guess I am not the only one…

religion-online.org/showarticle.asp?title=216
Another early Darby disciple, William E. Blackstone, brought dispensationalism to millions of Americans through his best seller Jesus Is Coming (1882). Blackstone organized the first Zionist lobbying effort in the U.S. in 1891 when he enlisted J. P. Morgan, John D. Rockefeller, Charles B. Scribner and other financiers to underwrite a massive newspaper campaign requesting President Benjamin Harrison to support the establishment of a Jewish state in Palestine.
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Similar efforts were under way in England, led by the social reformer Lord Shaftesbury, who, like Blackstone, was so taken with Darby’s eschatology that he translated it into a political agenda. These seeds of the Christian Zionist movement preceded Jewish Zionism by several years. Loni Shaftesbury is also credited with coining an early version of the slogan adopted by Jewish Zionist fathers Max Nordau and Theodor Herzl: “A land of no people for a people with no land.” Both Lord Arthur Balfour, author of the famous 1917 Balfour Declaration, and Prime Minister David Lloyd George, the two most powerful men in British foreign policy at the close of World War I, were raised in dispensationalist churches and were publicly committed to the Zionist agenda for “biblical” and colonialist reasons.
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J.P. Morgan, John D. Rockefeller, President Harrison, Lord Shatesbury were not national figures…you are probably correct…🙂
 
Why is it that any and all criticism of Israeli politics seems to get lumped together with actual support of islamic terrorism and / or hatred of jews?

If I criticise the actions of China, it does’nt automatically mean I despise all chinese people. Nation states is an artificial construct by man and are not equal to a people. They are not necessarily the same. We have all the rights to call the into question immoral behaviour by any state, regardless of history. A suffering history does not excempt one from being critised for inflicting suffering unto peoples in the present and the future.

Here is the kind of facts that make me wonder about the unwavering US support for Israel:

UN body urges Israel to allow nuclear inspection
IAEA urges Israel to allow nuclear inspection
Revealed: how Israel offered to sell South Africa nuclear weapons

Declassified GAO Report Exposes Fatally Flawed Israel Investigations

Whistleblower: VANUNU’S PHOTOS OF DIMONA - 1985

Another fact to why only the US (And Chech Republic I think) opposed the upgrading of Palestine to an observer state is that Europe has allowed ALOT of muslim immigrants into their nations and we know that the sentiments of the people sooner or later show in the policies.
In the case of Israel, the anti-israeli sentiments among the muslim population in Sweden ranges from disapproval of foreign policy to rabid anti-semitism. We have not seen such anti-semitism in Europe since the WW2 actually, and it’s undoubtedly related to the muslim immigration.
Yet none of this should be an excuse for aggressive and deceptive behaviour

We also know for a fact that US intelligence considers Israel to be “a genuine counterintelligence threat.”
Jonathan Jay Pollard who sold very sensitive information on US weaponry to Israel is being petitioned again and again for release by Israeli officials. [U.S. views Israel as a key ally, spy threat

Read more: http://triblive.com/usworld/world/2...ted-information-security-senior#ixzz2O4D2UAGC
Follow us: @triblive on Twitter | triblive on Facebook](http://triblive.com/usworld/world/2...ted-information-security-senior#axzz2O4CvfQAF)
 
TEPO said:
So only every Jew living in Israel is a “Zionist” then? Oh, I see now -that’s why Palestinians blow up random Jews in Israel… Because they’re all “Zionists”. :rolleyes:
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Every person living in Israel is a zionist, yes.
They support the establishment and creation of Israel. That’s what a zionist is.
 
CopticChristian said:
nkusa.org/AboutUs/Zionism/opposition.cfm

WHY ORTHODOX JEWS ARE OPPOSED TO A ZIONIST STATE
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Bad news for you. Not only is that a very small group, but it is getting smaller as time passes.

More than a decade ago, I debated one of them and he was forced to concede that their main efforts now are among the ultra-Orthodox, and that they are losing the battle.

In fact, they have even been excommunicated by virtually the entire spectrum of ultra-Orthodox Jewry, including (but not limited to) Anshei Sfard, Satmar, Bobov, Emunas Yisroel, Ger, Belz, Bnei Yehuda, Nitra, Viznitz, Munkacz, Vien, Klausenburg, Viznitz, Torah Vodaas, Novominsk, Torah Temimah, Chasan Sofer, Kiryas Joel - Monroe, Pupa, Young Israel of Brooklyn, Cong. Shomrei Shabbos, United Lubavitch Organizations of Crown Heights, Kamenitz, Agudath Israel 14th Avenue, United Jewish Organizations of Williamsburg, Boro Park Jewish Council, Debrecin, US Friends of the Eida Charedis, and Lakewood Yeshiva.

In fact, see these:

nahalharedi.org/nahal_haredi_news.php?id=108

nahalharedi.org/background_about_nahal_haredi.php

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiryat_Sefer

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beitar_Ilit
 
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