Americanism

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tomarin said:
No takers?
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If you accept wikipedia as an authority for something 100 years old, the heresy is defined as
The Americanist heresy is defined as the endorsement of what were thought to be anti-Catholic principles embraced by the United States: absolute freedom of the press, liberalism, individualism, complete separation of church and state, etc. The Americanism was the root of liberalism with Protestant influence.
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It all sounds Great to me.
 
I think it would still be a heresy to say that the laws of your country (any country, not just America) take precedence over the laws of the Church when they clash (for example, abortion), or believing obedience to your country is more important than obedience to the Church (for example, your country declares an unjust war).
 
tomarin said:
Yeah, me too. I cherish those things. So what happened? They were perceived to be anti-catholic at the time, and now they’re not. What changed?
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The wiki article said it was a label applied by foreigners. The rest of the world, as usual, was lagging behind American concepts of individual liberty a hundred years ago. Perhaps they caught up.
 
theistgal said:
I think it would still be a heresy to say that the laws of your country (any country, not just America) take precedence over the laws of the Church when they clash (for example, abortion), or believing obedience to your country is more important than obedience to the Church (for example, your country declares an unjust war).
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Yeah, well, the Church (not ours, not anyone else’s) doesn’t write or interpret U.S. law.

For the record, whether you personally believe the undeclared war in Iraq was or was not just is of no consequence.
 
Is a Catholic, Catholic first or American first?

As for me and my house, we are Catholic first.
 
stbruno said:
Is a Catholic, Catholic first or American first?

As for me and my house, we are Catholic first.
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How do you stop being an American if you perceive a conflict with the Church? What do you actually do, apart from talking? I’m trying to understand this kind of claim in concrete terms.
 
Arclight said:
How do you stop being an American if you perceive a conflict with the Church? What do you actually do, apart from talking? I’m trying to understand this kind of claim in concrete terms.
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Easy you move.
 
The wiki post isn’t accurate

TESTEM BENEVOLENTIAE NOSTRAE
Concerning New Opinions, Virtue, Nature And Grace, With Regard To Americanism
Pope Leo XIII
The underlying principle of these new opinions is that, in order to more easily attract those who differ from her, the Church should shape her teachings more in accord with the spirit of the age and relax some of her ancient severity and make some concessions to new opinions. Many think that these concessions should be made not only in regard to ways of living,** but even in regard to doctrines which belong to the deposit of the faith. **

They contend that it would be opportune, in order to gain those who differ from us, to omit certain points of her teaching which are of lesser importance, and to tone down the meaning which the Church has always attached to them. It does not need many words, beloved son, to prove the falsity of these ideas if the nature and origin of the doctrine which the Church proposes are recalled to mind. The Vatican Council says concerning this point: "For the doctrine of faith which God has revealed has not been proposed, like a philosophical invention to be perfected by human ingenuity, but has been delivered as a divine deposit to the Spouse of Christ to be faithfully kept and infallibly declared. Hence that meaning of the sacred dogmas is perpetually to be retained which our Holy Mother, the Church, has once declared, nor is that meaning ever to be departed from under the pretense or pretext of a deeper comprehension of them." —Constitutio de Fide Catholica,

here is a link to the whole document

In other words, the heresy is don’t preach it if it could irritate someone. There is more to this heresy but that is one of the main points.This heresy is alive and well in the USA. I think it is more popular than Modernism (its sister heresy).
For example I went to mass for All Souls day. The sermon spoke about our departed love ones in heaven. At the end of the mass we prayed for the faithful departed.
I asked the priest “Why did we pray FOR the faithful departed at the end of mass?”

He said, “Because we miss them.”

I said “Not because they may be in Purgatory? Isn’t that still a Dogma Father?”

His face dropped and he stutter out “yes, oh, yes that’s still a teaching.”

I said “Well I wouldn’t have known it by your sermon, father. That’s why the feast of All Souls day was started- to pray and understand the dogma of Purgatory! Wasn’t it?”

When was the last time you heard a sermon on hell?
On the Rosary? on Mortal and Venial Sin? etc…
 
Arclight said:
Yeah, well, the Church (not ours, not anyone else’s) doesn’t write or interpret U.S. law.

For the record, whether you personally believe the undeclared war in Iraq was or was not just is of no consequence.
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I just said as an example, “your country declares an unjust war” - I didn’t say anything about the U.S. or Iraq*. Why do you assume that was what I meant? How do you know I wasn’t referring to Germany in 1939? :rolleyes:

(*which, not that it’s any of your business, I don’t consider an unjust war. So there. 😛 )
 
Arclight said:
The wiki article said it was a label applied by foreigners. The rest of the world, as usual, was lagging behind American concepts of individual liberty a hundred years ago. Perhaps they caught up.
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Are you kidding me?The greeks invented democracy NOT America.A statement like that reeks of jingoism and is insulting to non-American members of this board.

People who live in GIGANTIC glass houses should NOT throw stones.:rolleyes:

By the way,in MY country it is YOU who is the foreigner.
 
This is heresy that separates what you hear called “neo conservative Catholics” versus those who are “Traditional and funny authentic Catholics”

Separation of Church and State is an error! It is not the ideal! The Church should guide the state, the Church law should have precedent over state law, the Bishops of the Church should be required to approve any laws proposed by lawmakers.

As for freedom of the press, error has no right! Even our modern Catechism says that law makers have the duty to make porn illegal, authentic Catholicism teaches that heresy, impurity all kinds of poison should not be freely available!

We are all Catholics first, members of that consecrated nation, that people set apart!
 
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