Americans Back Death Penalty by Gas or Electrocution If No Needle: Poll

[dudleysharp]

It makes no sense to me that there’d be a shortage of the lethal drug. Truly? How many people are being sentenced to the death-penalty every year?

The drug shortage is based upon anti death penalty folks harrasing the suppliers, making the supply short to non existant, as those suppliers are refusing to deliver drugs used in executions.

It appears the US Supreme Court is going to allow the states to keep secret the small compounding pharmacies who are already making the drugs for execution

 

[dudleysharp]

SNIP…an option such as life at hard labor, with no chance for parole should satisfy just about everyone…14-16 hours/day of hard labor would be a deterrent, and the fruits of this labor [wages] could be given to the criminal’s victims or their families…and if the criminal truly repented, the hard labor would be a just penance.

There is always a chance of release, as everyone knows, via escape, accidental release, intentional release, through change in the law or executive clemency.

In addition, living murderers are, infinitely, more likely to harm and murder, again, under all circumstances, than are executed murderers.

All of those circumstances are reviewd, in detail, in Footnote 4

The Catechism and the Death Penalty
prodpinnc.blogspot.com/2013/06/the-catechism-death-penalty.html

 

[dudleysharp]

I’ve never quite understood why this problem exists. Vets euthanize animals all the time, including large ones like horses, and they don’t seem to experience difficulties. We had a pet put down a few years ago and it was as peaceful a way to go as one could imagine. Beyond this, euthanasia is legal in at least Oregon, not to mention parts of Europe. Why is the execution protocol different than the one for euthanasia?

Ender

All the best drugs for execution are being witheld, except when secrecy is being respected, for the compounding pharmacies.

Yes, it is as simple and direct as with the pets we love.

Had Oklahmoma has a back up 2nd line IV, no one would have ever heard of Lockett. Blow outs are no big deal, with a second line.

The 2nd line is, evidently, optional in OK, but is required in Tx.

I am sure the OK protocol will change to mandatory.

 

[dudleysharp]

I agree! It’s so sad that we are one of the few remaining “civilized” counties with the death penalty. There is no humane way to end a life. These criminals still have a constitutional protection against cruel and unusual punishment.

My other argument against the death penalty is that we are trusting a jury of 12 people to decide that someone is guilty. Many of the jury pool don’t want to be there. I’m sure that there have been those who ignored their misgivings about guilt in order to get home sooner. Not to mention the fact that these juries are chosen at random… from the same people I deal with daily who can’t figure out how a 4-way stop sign works… How can we trust non-lawyers with no legal training to decide such complex matters as guilt in a capital case?

The jury or judge gets it right about 99.6% of the time, with the 0.4% actully innocent being released upon appellate review.

Please rveiew:

The Innocent Frauds: Standard Anti Death Penalty Strategy
and
THE DEATH PENALTY: SAVING MORE INNOCENT LIVES
prodpinnc.blogspot.com/2013/04/the-innocent-frauds-standard-anti-death.html

 

[dudleysharp]

The primary manufacturers of the medications in question are not US companies, and are based in countries where capital punishment is illegal. They would suffer a huge backlash from their customer base in their countries.

Unlikely.

It appears the majority of populations of all countries support the death penalty for some crimes (1).

It is more likely that some governments would sanction the drug companies, as the governments oppose the death penalty.

But, harrasment by anti death penalty activists appears to have been successful, enough, to get those companies to refuse to sell drugs if they are going to be used in executions.

1. 86% Death Penalty Support: Highest Ever - April 2013
   World Support Remains High
   95% of Murder Victim’s Family Members Support Death Penalty
   prodpinnc.blogspot.com/2013/11/86-death-penalty-support-highest-ever.html

 

[dudleysharp]

snip

My inclinations are against the death penalty for the sake of those who are innocent, and in the hope of giving the guilty a chance for interior repentance and conversion.

.

Innocenta are more at risk when we fail to execute murderers.

Murderers are more likely to repent and convert if they are facing death.

Please review:

The Death Penalty: Do Innocents Matter? A Review of All Innocence Issues
prodpinnc.blogspot.com/2013/10/the-death-penalty-do-innocents-matter.html

The Death Penalty: Mercy, Expiation, Redemption & Salvation
prodpinnc.blogspot.com/2013/06/the-death-penalty-mercy-expiation.html

CATEGORICAL PARDON: ON THE (CATHOLIC) ARGUMENT FOR ABOLISHING CAPITAL PUNISHMENT, J. BUDZISZEWSKI
scholarship.law.nd.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1279&context=ndjlepp

 

[dudleysharp]

I’d say shelve the death penalty period. That way you are 100% sure you’ve never executed the wrong person.

You’re 100% more likely to sacrifice more innocents.

The Death Penalty: Do Innocents Matter? A Review of All Innocence Issues
prodpinnc.blogspot.com/2013/10/the-death-penalty-do-innocents-matter.html

 

[dudleysharp]

I sure wouldn’t want to be the executioner who threw the switch, only to later find out that you executed the wrong guy. Imagine having to live with that on your conscience?

There is no clear case of an innocent executed since, at least the 1930’s.

Just since 1973, from 14,000 - 28,000 innocents have been murdered by those murderers we have allowed to murder, again - recidivist murderers.

Hopefully, someone feels badly about allowing that to happen.

The Death Penalty: Do Innocents Matter?
A Review of All Innocence Issues
prodpinnc.blogspot.com/2013/10/the-death-penalty-do-innocents-matter.html

 

[dudleysharp]

There is a difference between punishment and vengeance. Punishing them is life in prison, the only thing the death penalty does that life imprisonment doesn’t do is satisfy a sick need to revenge that is not very Christ-like at all.

This is such a bizarr conclusion.

The foundation of support for the death penalty is the same as with all sanctions justice.

The historical and traditional Catholic support for the death penalty is based upon respect for life, the dignity of man and justice and mercy.

Please review:

The Death Penalty: Mercy, Expiation, Redemption & Salvation
prodpinnc.blogspot.com/2013/06/the-death-penalty-mercy-expiation.html

CATEGORICAL PARDON: ON THE (CATHOLIC) ARGUMENT FOR ABOLISHING CAPITAL PUNISHMENT, J. BUDZISZEWSKI
scholarship.law.nd.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1279&context=ndjlepp

 

[dudleysharp]

SNIP

The main reason why I am against the death penalty because I personally feel that the death penalty is contrary to the inherent dignity that all human beings have as a result of being made in the image of God but at the same time I recognize that murderers are doing something that is gravely contrary to the dignity of others when they commit their horrific crimes and therefore a suitable punishment must be allowed and used.

The Catholic foundation for death penalty support is based upon the dignity of man, made in the image of God.

Please review:

The Death Penalty: Mercy, Expiation, Redemption & Salvation
prodpinnc.blogspot.com/2013/0…expiation.html

CATEGORICAL PARDON: ON THE (CATHOLIC) ARGUMENT FOR ABOLISHING CAPITAL PUNISHMENT, J. BUDZISZEWSKI
scholarship.law.nd.edu/cgi/vi…ontext=ndjlepp

CCC 2260: “For your lifeblood I will surely require a reckoning… Whoever sheds the blood of man, by man shall his blood be shed; for God made man in his own image.” “This teaching remains necessary for all time.”

2261 Scripture specifies the prohibition contained in the fifth commandment “Do not slay the innocent and the righteous.” The deliberate murder of an innocent person is gravely contrary to the dignity of the human being, to the golden rule, and to the holiness of the Creator. The law forbidding it is universally valid: it obliges each and everyone, always and everywhere."

“Do not slay the innocent and the righteous.” “An ‘innocent’ person.”

 

[Kelt]

We’re talking about methods, not the morality of the death penalty, which has been continually upheld by the Catholic Church. So even if I were to support the death penalty, as any Catholic can, I can do so in good conscience, remain in God’s grace and not have to answer for it.

I am comparing your uncompromising confidence in your version of religious faith to the same thing I in Islamic fundamentalists

 

[dudleysharp]

SNIP ‘Thou shalt not kill’ and ’ let he who is without guilt…’ etc comes to mind immediately. Also, if you believe that everyone should have a chance to repent how can you deny them time to do so? Basically, I don’t see how we can have the right to stand as judge for someone’s life. Two wrongs don’t make a right. Vengeance should not come into it.

The Church finds four types of killing licit, therfore, we know the context is "thou shalt not murder.

Please review: The Woman Caught in Adultery, the Death Penalty & John 8:2-11
prodpinnc.blogspot.com/2013/06/the-woman-caught-in-adultery-death.html

There is a very good case that facing death with cause greater repentence. See below:

You can’t be forced onto a jury. If you always oppose the death penalty, you can’;t be placed on a jury that may consider it.

The Death Penalty: Mercy, Expiation, Redemption & Salvation
prodpinnc.blogspot.com/2013/06/the-death-penalty-mercy-expiation.html

CATEGORICAL PARDON: ON THE (CATHOLIC) ARGUMENT FOR ABOLISHING CAPITAL PUNISHMENT, J. BUDZISZEWSKI
scholarship.law.nd.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1279&context=ndjlepp

 

[TCEL]

Murderers are more likely to repent and convert if they are facing death.

I have thought this a valid possibility too.

However, I’m concerned about the innocent convicted. Talk about Christ-like. Sentencing an innocent person to the death-penalty won’t save any innocent lives, unless there’s some kind of spiritual heavy-lifting going on we may not see. (Say this innocent person joins their death-sentence to Christ’s Passion.)

 

[dudleysharp]

I dont really agree with killing people over crimes, but wouldnt basic carbon monoxide poisoning be the most humane? People that die of this in their homes just go to sleep and never wake up, no pain, no suffering, nothing, plus Im sure its much cheaper.

SNIP

IMO, ‘THOU SHALT NOT KILL’ speaks for itself,SNIP

The Church finds four types of killing to be licit, so the better translation is “thou shalt not murder”.

Nitrogen Gas; Flawless, peaceful, unrestricted method of execution
Dudley Sharp

“(Dr. Phillip) Nitschke called (nitrogen gas hypoxia) “flawless” . . . Inhaling the pure nitrogen, patients lose consciousness immediately (in approximately 12 seconds) and die a few minutes later.” ". . . extremely quick . . . no drugs . . . reliable, peaceful, available . . . " (1).

No panic nor suffocation effect with nitrogen.

“Close contact with an enclosed inert gas (as nitrogen) is lethal because it flushes oxygen from the body, but released into the open air, it quickly disperses, and is safe for others.” (2) Therefore, a sealed gas chamber is not required - just an oxygen mask, a small nitrogen gas tank and a secured prisoner.

1)“Exit International’s euthanasia device”, Euthanasia device, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euthanasia_device#Exit_International.27s_euthanasia_device, viewed/copied 3/13/2104.

1. “Inert gas asphyxiation”, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inert_gas_asphyxiation, viewed/copied 3/13/2014

also

Creque, S.A. “Killing with kindness – capital punishment by nitrogen asphyxiation” National Review. 1995-9-11.

 

[porthos11]

I am comparing your uncompromising confidence in your version of religious faith to the same thing I in Islamic fundamentalists

I believe in the Catholic Church and all she teaches. It’s not my version.

 

[dudleysharp]

I have thought this a valid possibility too.

However, I’m concerned about the innocent convicted. Talk about Christ-like. Sentencing an innocent person to the death-penalty won’t save any innocent lives, unless there’s some kind of spiritual heavy-lifting going on we may not see. (Say this innocent person joins their death-sentence to Christ’s Passion.)

I question the wisdom of comparing an innocent human executed to the perfectly innocent Christ.

We are speaking of two very differnt types of innocent here. All men are sinners. Christ was the perfect God.

We all die because of our sins, regardless of the sin and regardless of the method of death.

From a secular standpoint, we are all concerned about innocent people dying, no matter the circumstance.

From an eternal standpoint, our state of grace at the time of our death is much more important than the method of our death.

From a secular standpoint, except in cases where we are unjust aggressors, ourselves, we are all dying as innocents, no matter our death, are we not?

In addition, I think it solid that innocents are more at risk if we do away with the death penalty.

Please review:

The Death Penalty: Do Innocents Matter? A Review of All Innocence Issues
prodpinnc.blogspot.com/2013/10/the-death-penalty-do-innocents-matter.html

 

[Kelt]

*F

Are you saying that Jesus was just having a nifty legal game of words when he said ‘let he who is without sin cast the first stone,’ and that’s all? No other value to these words of his?

Morality does change with time, for example it was considered a moral right to burn heretics once upon a time. I’m sure there were theological justifications. Evidently enough people came to think this wrong in order for it to change. It was once considered necessary and just for the church authorities to torture people, albeit without drawing blood. This changed too.
Love and compassion is what Christianity is about. And one shouldn’t confuse compassion with softness. Or vengeance with justice. Sticks in the throat where crime is concerned? Well love and compassion are not easy, they’re about commitment and patience and can be darned hard work and difficult to live up to as I’m sure you know. Why are ithey abandoned by some for this thread? Compassion for the victim need not be lost either.
Love and compassion are difficult. Vengeance is easy.*

 

[TCEL]

I question the wisdom of comparing an innocent human executed to the perfectly innocent Christ.

We are speaking of two very differnt types of innocent here. All men are sinners. Christ was the perfect God.

We all die because of our sins, regardless of the sin and regardless of the method of death.

From a secular standpoint, we are all concerned about innocent people dying, no matter the circumstance.

From an eternal standpoint, our state of grace at the time of our death is much more important than the method of our death.

From a secular standpoint, except in cases where we are unjust aggressors, ourselves, we are all dying as innocents, no matter our death, are we not?

In addition, I think it solid that innocents are more at risk if we do away with the death penalty.

Please review:

The Death Penalty: Do Innocents Matter? A Review of All Innocence Issues
prodpinnc.blogspot.com/2013/10/the-death-penalty-do-innocents-matter.html

Yes, thank you for the link. I did read it and it left me with something to think about, though mere numbers games do bother me a bit. I’m a crisis pregnancy volunteer, so I have a thing about people being wrongly killed.

 

[Ender]

I am comparing your uncompromising confidence in your version of religious faith to the same thing I in Islamic fundamentalists

Are you suggesting that those who don’t doubt their faith and are not unsure about what it says are as bad as Islamic fundamentalists? This goes a good bit too far as it undoubtedly includes most of the clergy and all of those martyred for the faith. You don’t seem to have much doubt in the correctness of your position on this issue. Is that a sign of mindless intransigence or simply confidence?

I have studied this issue for a while now and have a very high level of confidence in my understanding of what the church has taught and teaches today. To be well read in a subject in no way makes one similar to an Islamic fundamentalist. If you are confident that your position is correct then engage in the debate, but it is not useful to disparage a person and simply dismiss his argument.

Ender

 

[Ender]

Are you saying that Jesus was just having a nifty legal game of words when he said ‘let he who is without sin cast the first stone,’ and that’s all? No other value to these words of his?

I’m saying you are misinterpreting the meaning of this episode. Why would Jesus say “Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill." (Mt 5:17) if he really meant to abolish capital punishment?

Morality does change with time…

Not according to church teaching.

for example it was considered a moral right to burn heretics once upon a time. I’m sure there were theological justifications.

Don’t confuse the errors of individuals with errors of doctrine, nor has the church ever claimed that all her doctrines were accurate. All that have been infallibly taught, yes, every single doctrine, no.

Love and compassion is what Christianity is about.

Do you recognize any authority within the church or is your faith whatever you believe it to be?

And one shouldn’t confuse compassion with softness. Or vengeance with justice.

I’d really like to address this point but if I can’t cite anyone you would accept then our differences on this cannot be resolved any more than differences on whether vanilla tastes better than chocolate.

Ender