America's Most Dangerous Drug

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MichaelTDoyle:
Alternative sentencing is a good idea.
Can you give some examples, please?
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MichaelTDoyle:
Non-violent crimes should have people braceleted and treatment-- with additional penalties for infractions.
Please define non-violent. If it only means no evidence of physical assault, then no, I can’t agree. There are many kinds of root behaviours which are predatory, sociopathic and which inflict profound damage on the victims – ruin their lives.
 
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MichaelTDoyle:
Alternative sentencing is a good idea. Non-violent crimes should have people braceleted and treatment-- with additional penalties for infractions. We need other methods than incarceration.

As for legalization, we have seen with abortion that legalization carries with it a social imprimatur. We cannot legalize highly addictive drugs for that reason and we should not legalize SSAD behaviour or ritualize it with “SSAD Marriage” for that same reason.

Laws carry more impact than simply abiding or not abiding them.
We also need to relook at stopping the flow of drugs into this country.
Teaching youngsters about drugs is another good thing…it reminds me of when myoldest was about 5 and he was told by a police man giving a talk about drugs at school that cigarettes where a drug. Later that evening we stopped at the local minimart for milk and “smokes” for mom…at the check out standing next to a policeman…he said “my mom does drugs…” talk about having my jaw hit the ground…well the policeman asked him what kind of drugs and he said…“my mom smokes cigarettes & cigarettes are drugs.” Thank god that “smokes” are legal…otherwise I would of been in jail…as it was the policeman looked at my sona nd said he was right and then looked at me and said “I should listen to my son”
 
Ani Ibi:
Can you give some examples, please?

Please define non-violent. If it only means no evidence of physical assault, then no, I can’t agree. There are many kinds of root behaviours which are predatory, sociopathic and which inflict profound damage on the victims – ruin their lives.
Many a child molestor obtains a kind of quasi-consent from his victims. It’s still a predatory and life-destroying crime. There is little diffence between such “non-violent” exploitation and drug pushing.
 
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Karin:
We also need to relook at stopping the flow of drugs into this country.
It is our demand for drugs that creates the market. Stopping the flow is impossible as long as people in this country are willing to pay almost unlimited amounts of money for drugs.

And, as we have seen, many drugs are produced inside this country. Meth is a prime example.
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Karin:
Teaching youngsters about drugs is another good thing…it reminds me of when myoldest was about 5 and he was told by a police man giving a talk about drugs at school that cigarettes where a drug. Later that evening we stopped at the local minimart for milk and “smokes” for mom…at the check out standing next to a policeman…he said “my mom does drugs…” talk about having my jaw hit the ground…well the policeman asked him what kind of drugs and he said…“my mom smokes cigarettes & cigarettes are drugs.” Thank god that “smokes” are legal…otherwise I would of been in jail…as it was the policeman looked at my sona nd said he was right and then looked at me and said “I should listen to my son”

I hope that worked like it should have – inducing shame is the best way of “educating” people against such behavior.
 
vern humphrey:
I hope that worked like it should have – inducing shame is the best way of “educating” people against such behavior.
:o :nope:
 
vern humphrey:
I hope that worked like it should have – inducing shame is the best way of “educating” people against such behavior.
Amen!!!

:clapping:
 
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Snicker:
Apples and Oranges
How so? All I did was take your exact same words and replace “drug” with “sex offender.”

They’re both devastating crimes to society.
 
Snickers… I would be curious when you where sentenced to prison and where. Here in California a lovely :rolleyes: proposition was passed that made it mandatory for drug users to go to drug court. They get put into rehab, have to check in on a regular bases with the court to report their progress, they have to take regular drug test. Sounds great huh… The reality is it isn’t. I sit out in the court hall ways with victims of crimes so I get to hear and observe. The deffence attorneys are constantly telling the drug pushers to tell the judge that they are users in order to keep them from going to prison. The coversations the defendants have are depressing, it is all a big joke to them. You can’t force rehab on most addicts, it is something they have to be ready to do.

I have seen pictures of children with their hair falling out, and there teeth rotting away because mom and dad think it is okay for them to make meth in their children’s room. I saw one house where the parents put the chemicals on a shelf above the child’s bed to keep it out of reach. The thing is the chemicals are heavier than air so guess what is falling on them.

I personally see drugs as the route of many of the crimes I work on. They are often the given excuse for the crime commited. I work with the victims though, and that doesn’t do much to heal their pain.
 
Having two recovering meth addicts in my immediate family, I know “shaming” has no effect. Nothing has any effect. We tried re-habs and shrinks. Years of pools of tears, recriminations, tough love, being stolen from, you name it. One lived in abandoned crack houses and one went to prison for 10 years , came out and got hopped up the same day. Anyone who has not lived with a meth addict can not possibly relate to any of this.
Thanks be to God, and prayers to St. Jude, they are both clean. For now anyway. They each had to do it on their own, find their own way to sobriety.
Once again, nothing and noone has any effect on a person addicted to meth.
And, yes, I agree, it is THE most dangerous drug. To every one, in every way.
 
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catsrus:
Having two recovering meth addicts in my immediate family, I know “shaming” has no effect. Nothing has any effect. We tried re-habs and shrinks. Years of pools of tears, recriminations, tough love, being stolen from, you name it. One lived in abandoned crack houses and one went to prison for 10 years , came out and got hopped up the same day. Anyone who has not lived with a meth addict can not possibly relate to any of this.
Shame is most effective as a preventive measure, not as a cure. If people internalize the values of society to the point where they feel shame if they steal, use drugs, or cheat on their wives, they are highly unlikely to TRY to steal, use drugs or cheat on their wives.

Once a person starts using drugs, the physiological craving for the drug overcomes any psychological barriers – which is why addicts will resort to prostitution, theft, and other crimes to get drugs.

The Catholic Church has often been accused of resorting to shame and guilt – but those methods do work as preventives.
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catsrus:
Thanks be to God, and prayers to St. Jude, they are both clean. For now anyway. They each had to do it on their own, find their own way to sobriety.
Once again, nothing and noone has any effect on a person addicted to meth.
And, yes, I agree, it is THE most dangerous drug. To every one, in every way.
You bet it is – as I say, it’s the scourge of the Ozarks.
 
vern humphrey:
Once a person starts using drugs, the physiological craving for the drug overcomes any psychological barriers – which is why addicts will resort to prostitution, theft, and other crimes to get drugs.
Well, they do resort to these predatory behaviours to drive the addiction, but the addiction is a pretext – an excuse – which protects the preference for predatory behaviour. Blaming the predatory behaviour on the addiction is what keeps addicts hooked.
 
somebody:
Obviously our sex offender laws don’t work. All sexual conduct should be legal for anyone over 21 and all our efforts should be in prevention, education, and treatment.

Doesn’t quite sound the same, does it?
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Snicker:
Apples and Oranges
Saying ‘apples and oranges’ doesn’t make it so. Demonstrating that it is so makes it so. In the absence of any demonstration on your part, the poster’s observation stands as a fair analogy.
 
Ani Ibi:
Saying ‘apples and oranges’ doesn’t make it so. Demonstrating that it is so makes it so. In the absence of any demonstration on your part, the poster’s observation stands as a fair analogy.
Apples and oranges are both fruit. Apples and oranges are both round. Apples and oranges both grow on trees.

You see, you CAN compare apples and oranges!

And you can compare sex offenders and drug peddlers – and find quite as many similarities as you can between apples and oranges.
 
Legalize it and tax it. This will break the back of the drug dealers.
 
Bobby A. Greene:
Legalize it and tax it. This will break the back of the drug dealers.
And will you be willing to undergo surgery under the knife of a person loaded with it? Want to be a passenger in an airliner with the pilot on it? When something becomes legal - it’s an affirmation of the society that it’s okay to do.
 
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HagiaSophia:
And will you be willing to undergo surgery under the knife of a person loaded with it? Want to be a passenger in an airliner with the pilot on it? When something becomes legal - it’s an affirmation of the society that it’s okay to do.
Just like booze and all the alchy wife beaters, drunken drivers who kill, drunken 3rd mates who crash their oil tankers, boozers with guns, and alcohol related suicides. Society has laws against all of these which would also apply if drugs were legalized.

You go to a state liquor store to purchase your cocaine or meth, but you’ll be arrested for driving under the influence or being high in public, just like alcohol.

Legalization of anything is not a moral condonation of that commodity!
 
Bobby A. Greene:
Legalization of anything is not a moral condonation of that commodity!
Unfortunately, a good many people disagree with that philosophy, and will take legalization to mean “Hey, if it wasn’t good for me, the government wouldn’t have legalized it.”

And when you legalize it, what do you do about prescription drugs? How can you keep control of antibiotics, for example, and prevent rapid evolution of drug-resistant microbes?

Surely if you can buy a drug that will dramatically shorten your life across the counter, you can’t be refused true medicine on the same basis!
 
Bobby A. Greene:
You go to a state liquor store to purchase your cocaine or meth, but you’ll be arrested for driving under the influence or being high in public, just like alcohol.
And we’ve all seen how that stops it haven’t we? Would that go for guns too do you think? Anyone can walk in and buy any type of weapon they want - I mean if they want to hunt rabbits with a howitzer – well let’em – it makes no sense, no sense at all.
 
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