America's 'soul' at risk over immigration, Archbishop Gomez warns

[Ridgerunner]

In an attempt to get back on specific topic, consider the republicans that have, since the election, called for a more immigration friendly language, and view. This has to be a response of how the numbers of the Hispanic vote went.

Possibly for some it is, though many Repubs have favored immigration reform from when Obama was a minor politician in Chicago.

But back then, as now, the real sticking point is enforcement. Obama has demonstrated that the present immigration laws mean nothing to him. Is there some good reason for Repubs or anybody else to trust him now to enforce anything new?

If so, share it.

 

[BigBlueCane]

Possibly for some it is, though many Repubs have favored immigration reform from when Obama was a minor politician in Chicago.

But back then, as now, the real sticking point is enforcement. Obama has demonstrated that the present immigration laws mean nothing to him. Is there some good reason for Repubs or anybody else to trust him now to enforce anything new?

If so, share it.

Again this is just inaccurate. There have been more deportations under Obama than anyone. So to say that he ignores the immigration laws is just untrue.

 

[New_World_Man]

We need to stop viewing issues through the political lens and start viewing them through the spiritual lens. No political party is perfect, but each holds to some truth. Both parties pander to blocs of voters and believers are a very large bloc.

I don’t disagree.

 

[Ridgerunner]

We know Obama won’t compromise, and that’s not what I’m saying at all. Republicans could have compromised on the lesser evils to defeat him, but couldn’t give on any lesser issue to garner more votes. They gambled, all or nothing. Now that’s changed, too late for this past election, but hopefully not for future.

On what lesser evils (other than the Ron Paul and related stuff) did they fail to compromise? Please be specific. Remember, it wasn’t for lack of Hispanic votes that Romney lost. It was for lack of conservative votes.

Conservatives are, indeed, going to have to decide whether to act like a single party or not. With Ron Paul’s departure from the political scene, perhaps more will. But there is no certainty of it. Repubs, it appears, are not lockstep people like Dems appear nowadays to be.

In no way do I discount the hazard presented by excessive independence of mind. The left is always more disciplined than is the right or the center. It has to be. As a born and raised and once-faithful Democrat myself, I have been amazed over the last several years how lemming-like Dems have become. The Senate has to be the worst. Harry Reid doesn’t like something the Repubs in the House send over and he just pockets it. And all of those towering Democrat egos in the Senate that once would have blown the roof off the capitol building off with their protests simply submit to that indignity like a self-blaming battered wife. It’s truly astonishing. But it also testifies to the centralization of power on the left; a centralization that puts Republican disputation in stark relief. It’s a centralization the people in this country should fear a great deal more than most do.

 

[10gr8kids]

Maybe instead of trying to figure out how to make America better for the Mexican immigrants, we should pray for Mexico’s ‘soul’ so their citizens will want to stay there. It’s kind of ironic that it seems like we get blamed for being the ‘bad guy’ when it’s Mexico so many people are fleeing.

 

[BigBlueCane]

And Obama is willing to compromise on what major issues like abortion and homosexual “marriage” and forcing Catholic institutions to provide coverage for abortifacients and contraceptives?

He compromised on the contraception issue twice. Abortion is not an issue.

But I do agree that people who had an opportunity to oppose the known and blatant evils of the Obama regime, but didn’t do so for the sake of “lesser issues” or speculative doubts, share in the evils their failure to effectively oppose him are bringing about. I said that before the election, and I’ll say it now. Those who did so should own the responsibility for their action or inaction, and really have no business preaching new “compromises” with a regime that will not compromise on either greater or lesser issues.

They didn’t do so because they don’t view the Obama administration as evil. That was the problem all along with conservatives. They called him socialist, marxist, communist, evil and the american people saw him as the total opposite of it. At some point you just have to say maybe my view point is in the small minority.

Obama’s riposte to McCain in the bogus “negotiation” about Obamacare was demonstrative. He simply reminded McCain that McCain lost the election. I won, you lost, case closed.

Good. Because he did win and elections have consequences. Its funny how when Bush is in office he got everything he pretty much wanted except for privatizing social security. Yet when a dem wins then all of sudden everything is a fight and he’s supposed to just sit back and take it.

Since this is about immigration, we all know that many conservatives do not oppose it, and never have. But they have also insisted on border enforcement first; the legitimacy of
which point even Obama tacitly concedes by pretending that he intends to do it after four pretty demonstrative years of not doing it. Against that background, who would not be skeptical and cautious about anything his government proposes?

Again this is simply not true. Conservatives have been the staunchest opposition to immigration reform for years. Up until a few months ago conservatives wanted them all deported. It was conservatives who derailed the immigration reform attempt by the Bush administration. It was conservatives who forced people like John McCain and Mitt Romney, who aren’t rabid anti-immigrant politicians, to go hard right. The enforcement they have cheered has been electrified fences with moats and alligators. Bottom line is they have been anti-immigrant and are now being dragged kicking and screaming by the establishment GOP who realize they need to get this issue settled.

To enter into compromises, there has to be at least some minimal amount of trust on the part of both sides. What was the last compromise the Repubs made? The tax increase in exchange for not having the government shut down. A little lopsided, but a compromise of sorts. It was “You compromise your principles to this extent and I won’t insist on punishing the public.” And no sooner was that deal made than Obama started all over again demanding the additional tax increases he proposed right at the beginning, and which he earlier purported to have “compromised”.

No thats called one compromise now here is another. Considering the fact that twice already the Obama administration has agreed to cuts that were against their principles in exchange for ZERO tax cuts then its safe to say there is room to catch up to make it even. Bottom line is the GOP is just protecting their base…the rich.

 

[New_World_Man]

In an attempt to get back on specific topic, consider the republicans that have, since the election, called for a more immigration friendly language, and view. This has to be a response of how the numbers of the Hispanic vote went.

I support a pathway to legalization not because of how Hispanics voted,but because I believe we must treat people who have been here for years humanely. It must also be noted that while the majority of undocumented immigrants are Hispanic,their are many,many who are not. Many Asians,Europeans,from every nationality. Many are on visa overstays. When I was still living in Chicago,I knew personally a few people who were undocumented. One was from the Phillipines,one from Poland. Both are more hard working than the average American and better citizens.

 

[BigBlueCane]

I support a pathway to legalization not because of how Hispanics voted,but because I believe we must treat people who have been here for years humanely. It must also be noted that while the majority of undocumented immigrants are Hispanic,their are many,many who are not. Many Asians,Europeans,from every nationality. Many are on visa overstays. When I was still living in Chicago,I knew personally a few people who were undocumented. One was from the Phillipines,one from Poland. Both are more hard working than the average American and better citizens.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

I support a pathway to legalization not because of how Hispanics voted,but because I believe we must treat people who have been here for years humanely. It must also be noted that while the majority of undocumented immigrants are Hispanic,their are many,many who are not. Many Asians,Europeans,from every nationality. Many are on visa overstays. When I was still living in Chicago,I knew personally a few people who were undocumented. One was from the Phillipines,one from Poland. Both are more hard working than the average American and better citizens.

I agree. When I said, ‘consider the republicans that have, since the election, called for a more immigration friendly language, and view. This has to be a response of how the numbers of the Hispanic vote went,’ I was specifically speaking about republican politicians. I’ll also say, ‘it’s not a one party thing, it’s a politician thing; they all do it.’

 

[Ridgerunner]

He compromised on the contraception issue twice. Abortion is not an issue.

No he didn’t, and American bishops have said so. Abortion is an issue, why do you say it isn’t? It’s an issue because the HHS mandate requires coverage for Plan B and Ella. But it’s also an issue because Obama is pro-abortion and has wiped out many of the previous limitations on it, and has appointed two Supreme Court justices who NARAL regards as friendly to their cause.

But go ahead and tell me why abortion is not an issue, anymore?

 

[Ridgerunner]

They didn’t do so because they don’t view the Obama administration as evil. That was the problem all along with conservatives. They called him socialist, marxist, communist, evil and the american people saw him as the total opposite of it. At some point you just have to say maybe my view point is in the small minority.

Interesting. Reminds me of a time in high school when a protestant kid in the Bible Belt told me I shouldn’t be Catholic because it was a “small minority”. I didn’t let it sway my beliefs then, any more than anyone should be swayed by the “you’re in the minority” argument now.

I did not call him a socialist, marxist or a communist. I actually think he’s something else entirely, and I have said it. But his policies regarding abortion, homosexual “marriage” and forcing Catholic institutions to provide abortifacients and contraceptives are evil. I didn’t make that up. The Church says so. But oops! “Small minority” again, right? We shouldn’t follow Church teachings if we’re in the minority in doing so. Right?

And his forcing orders of nuns like this one to provide abortifacient and contraceptive coverage for THEMSELVES or pay fines they can’t pay, just can’t be described as anything other than evil. sistersoflife.org/. Look up their site. See what their work is. See what they say about Obama’s mandate. Then explain to me why his mandate isn’t “evil”.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Again this is simply not true. Conservatives have been the staunchest opposition to immigration reform for years. Up until a few months ago conservatives wanted them all deported. It was conservatives who derailed the immigration reform attempt by the Bush administration. It was conservatives who forced people like John McCain and Mitt Romney, who aren’t rabid anti-immigrant politicians, to go hard right. The enforcement they have cheered has been electrified fences with moats and alligators. Bottom line is they have been anti-immigrant and are now being dragged kicking and screaming by the establishment GOP who realize they need to get this issue settled.

Conservatives have, indeed, been the staunchest opposition to blanket amnesties. That’s what actually derailed the McCain proposal, not reform in itself. There are just a lot of people who don’t want to see another pointless amnesty just to have to face it again down the road.

It’s possible some kind of immigration reform can be worked out, but I personally doubt it, because there cannot be any belief on anyone’s part that it will be enforced.

 

[BigBlueCane]

No he didn’t, and American bishops have said so. Abortion is an issue, why do you say it isn’t? It’s an issue because the HHS mandate requires coverage for Plan B and Ella. But it’s also an issue because Obama is pro-abortion and has wiped out many of the previous limitations on it, and has appointed two Supreme Court justices who NARAL regards as friendly to their cause.

THe fact that the Bishops may have not liked the compromise doesn’t mean he didn’t compromise. He did. Thats a fact.

But go ahead and tell me why abortion is not an issue, anymore?

When was the last presidential election or any national election where it made a difference? 94? If that? It just isn’t an issue that will decide a vast majority of the peoples vote.

 

[BigBlueCane]

Interesting. Reminds me of a time in high school when a protestant kid in the Bible Belt told me I shouldn’t be Catholic because it was a “small minority”. I didn’t let it sway my beliefs then, any more than anyone should be swayed by the “you’re in the minority” argument now.

I’m not saying it should sway your beliefs. But the name calling of Obama being evil incarnate is a radical view that the vast majority of Americans don’t agree with. Again that is part of why the GOP lost badly. They were living in an echo chamber thinking that everyone else is believing he was a Kenyan, socialiast, marxist, anti-christ figure. So again at a certain point people need to look in the mirror and do some self reflecting as to why they were so wrong.

I did not call him a socialist, marxist or a communist. I actually think he’s something else entirely, and I have said it. But his policies regarding abortion, homosexual “marriage” and forcing Catholic institutions to provide abortifacients and contraceptives are evil. I didn’t make that up. The Church says so. But oops! “Small minority” again, right? We shouldn’t follow Church teachings if we’re in the minority in doing so. Right?

You can follow the church’s teachings all you want but I haven’t seen anything come out of the Vatican indicating that Obama was evil which is a far more insulting thing to say than socialist or marxist. Obama didn’t legalize abortion. Obama didn’t legalize contraception. So to blame those on him isn’t even close to being fair. As far as the HHS mandate he has compromised twice. Catholic organizations have supported this compromise. Only the bishops and others haven’t. You have to make your own judgements as to why that is. To conclude that its because “he’s evil” is a losing argument and a minority argument.

And his forcing orders of nuns like this one to provide abortifacient and contraceptive coverage for THEMSELVES or pay fines they can’t pay, just can’t be described as anything other than evil. sistersoflife.org/. Look up their site. See what their work is. See what they say about Obama’s mandate. Then explain to me why his mandate isn’t “evil”.

Because he isn’t forcing anyone to pay. Sorry that just isn’t the truth of it.

 

[Ridgerunner]

No thats called one compromise now here is another. Considering the fact that twice already the Obama administration has agreed to cuts that were against their principles in exchange for ZERO tax cuts then its safe to say there is room to catch up to make it even. Bottom line is the GOP is just protecting their base…the rich.

Never did Obama agree to actual cuts. Show us where he did. Real cuts now, not reductions in high-set increases. I recall his lamenting Ryan’s “cut” in the proposed 12% increase in food stamps down to an 8% increase. Obama wouldn’t do that one, but it’s indicative.

Since I vote against abortion-promoting candidates without exception, I suppose I could be said to be within the Republican “base”, because there are never any prolife candidates on my ballot other than Republicans. But I’m certainly not “rich”.

Nor is Obama unfriendly to the truly “rich”. His targets are upper middle class people, farmers and medium business owners. When did Obama propose the correct the low tax Warren Buffett pays by eliminating the deduction for contributions to private foundations? When did he increase what Bill Gates pays? When did he propose making high-grade municipals taxable? When did he make overseas-parked earnings immediately taxable?

He didn’t do any of that, but he did give tax breaks to well off people who could afford new cars with “cash for clunkers”. He did save DeutcheBank some severe losses by pouring tax and borrowed money into AIG; money that went right back out again to counterparties. He also saved the bacon of Goldman Sachs with the money of penny-ante taxpayers like me.

I’m part of the Repub “base” because I oppose abortion. Do you oppose them for the opposite reason?

 

[BigBlueCane]

Conservatives have, indeed, been the staunchest opposition to blanket amnesties. That’s what actually derailed the McCain proposal, not reform in itself. There are just a lot of people who don’t want to see another pointless amnesty just to have to face it again down the road.

Yeah except “amnesty” as defined by conservatives has been any kind of bill that allows a path to citizenship. The same plans being championed by Rubio and Rand Paul today were being championed by Ted Kennedy years ago when conservatives called it amnesty. Heck Rubio and Paul have to change the packaging and try to convince their radical right constituents that it isn’t amnesty. The right today are calling Rubio and Rand Pauls plans as amnesty when it clearly isn’t. Again there is no deny that conservatives have been anti-immigrant and have played up the xenophobia in their own constituency for political purposes. It is only the GOP establishment that now after getting spanked realize they can’t continue down that road or risk being a minority party.

It’s possible some kind of immigration reform can be worked out, but I personally doubt it, because there cannot be any belief on anyone’s part that it will be enforced.

It will happen and it will be the same plans that have been touted by Dems for years. Why because the GOP has to do it. There is just no other way around it. Good luck trying to sell the “enforcement” cop out.

 

[Ridgerunner]

I’m not saying it should sway your beliefs. But the name calling of Obama being evil incarnate is a radical view that the vast majority of Americans don’t agree with. Again that is part of why the GOP lost badly. They were living in an echo chamber thinking that everyone else is believing he was a Kenyan, socialiast, marxist, anti-christ figure. So again at a certain point people need to look in the mirror and do some self reflecting as to why they were so wrong. I didn’t say Obama, himself, is evil. I said his government and his policies are evil, and they are.

You can follow the church’s teachings all you want but I haven’t seen anything come out of the Vatican indicating that Obama was evil which is a far more insulting thing to say than socialist or marxist. Obama didn’t legalize abortion. Obama didn’t legalize contraception. So to blame those on him isn’t even close to being fair. As far as the HHS mandate he has compromised twice. Catholic organizations have supported this compromise. Only the bishops and others haven’t. You have to make your own judgements as to why that is. To conclude that its because “he’s evil” is a losing argument and a minority argument. See above. Obama is still forcing Catholic institutions to provide contraceptive and abortifacient coverage. His “compromises” are a sham.

Because he isn’t forcing anyone to pay. Sorry that just isn’t the truth of it.

So the Sisters of Life are lying? Whatever.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Yeah except “amnesty” as defined by conservatives has been any kind of bill that allows a path to citizenship. The same plans being championed by Rubio and Rand Paul today were being championed by Ted Kennedy years ago when conservatives called it amnesty. Heck Rubio and Paul have to change the packaging and try to convince their radical right constituents that it isn’t amnesty. The right today are calling Rubio and Rand Pauls plans as amnesty when it clearly isn’t. Again there is no deny that conservatives have been anti-immigrant and have played up the xenophobia in their own constituency for political purposes. It is only the GOP establishment that now after getting spanked realize they can’t continue down that road or risk being a minority party.

It will happen and it will be the same plans that have been touted by Dems for years. Why because the GOP has to do it. There is just no other way around it. Good luck trying to sell the “enforcement” cop out.

Amnesty is amnesty, no matter what you call it. Most people don’t support that.

 

[Brendan]

THe fact that the Bishops may have not liked the compromise doesn’t mean he didn’t compromise. He did. Thats a fact. .

And I suppose that you would agree that deporting illegal aliens but allowing them apply for legal entry via their local US Embassy under the same terms as anyone else would be a compromise too, correct?

You may not like it, but it WOULD be a compromise

 

[BigBlueCane]

Never did Obama agree to actual cuts. Show us where he did. Real cuts now, not reductions in high-set increases. I recall his lamenting Ryan’s “cut” in the proposed 12% increase in food stamps down to an 8% increase. Obama wouldn’t do that one, but it’s indicative.

You can’t say show me cuts then move the goal posts. Again unless you haven’t paid attention to the news, the last couple of years Obama has agreed to cuts to avert government shutdowns where not one dime of revenue was raised. The sequester cuts have not one dime of revenue. Again this is undisputed fact.

Since I vote against abortion-promoting candidates without exception, I suppose I could be said to be within the Republican “base”, because there are never any prolife candidates on my ballot other than Republicans. But I’m certainly not “rich”.

They don’t care about you they care about their base. The people who represent your part of their voting bloc tend to vote against their own interests. Thats my opinion.

Nor is Obama unfriendly to the truly “rich”. His targets are upper middle class people, farmers and medium business owners. When did Obama propose the correct the low tax Warren Buffett pays by eliminating the deduction for contributions to private foundations? When did he increase what Bill Gates pays? When did he propose making high-grade municipals taxable? When did he make overseas-parked earnings immediately taxable?

He can’t make anything taxable because the GOP congress has been opposing anything that resembles a tax increase.

I’m part of the Repub “base” because I oppose abortion. Do you oppose them for the opposite reason?

I oppose them because they are against anything that helps minority or poor and middle class people. They are only for strengthening the power of the elite in this country.