Amid Scandals, Questions of Where the Pope’s Focus Lies [New York Times]

[vs_trumpet]

nytimes.com/2009/02/17/world/europe/17pope.html?ref=world&pagewanted=all

This is a good NYT article in that it points to issues “larger” than the three scandals it mentions: 1. SSPX Holocaust bishop; 2. the now rescinded promotion of Fr Wagner to be bishop in Austria 3. the evolving scandal of the Legion of Christ and its founder. There’s lots of information in the article. Here are some of the “larger” issues.

a debate within the church over whether Pope Benedict XVI’s focus on doctrine and his perceived insensitivity to political tone are alienating mainstream Catholics and undermining the church’s moral authority… The Vatican expert George Weigel … criticized the Vatican for its “chaos, confusion and incompetence.”…

the Austrian newspaper Die Presse said on its front page on Monday, “His name stands for a battle over direction: should Linz be more faithful to Rome or should the church be more democratic and more liberal?” … concerns by centrist Catholics about the direction of the church and their place within it. … [some] see Benedict’s interest in reaching out to traditionalists as perfectly consistent with his past views … “… fear that by accepting the bishops of the Society of St. Pius X back into the church, the liturgical and theological reforms of Vatican II are somehow endangered”…

The quick decision by the Vatican to accept Father Wagner’s withdrawal in Austria may reflect a new sensitivity … and would not have been made lightly, says Hubert Feichtlbauer … “The Vatican really took a risk, and had to consider the possibility that other places might put up similar resistance to unwanted candidates,” he said… “The larger problem is the inability of the church leadership to come to terms with the modern world,” Mr. Feichtlbauer said. “The problem is a long-term one, and in no way is it solved.”

Any thoughts on these larger issues or anything else in the article?

 

[Paladin_V]

I have two quick comments on the article, although I’d comment more if I had more time…

“Likewise, the outrage over Bishop Williamson was directed not only at his Holocaust denial and the Vatican’s delay in fully condemning it, but also over concerns by centrist Catholics about the direction of the church and their place within it.”

In the end, there is no middle ground… one either follows Christ or they don’t. If they follow Him, they do so completely, if they reject Him, they do so completely.

“A theologian more at home in the library than the stadium Mass, Benedict was for two decades head of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith and was more attuned to the theology of esoteric doctrinal questions rather than their potential political ramifications. If his recent missteps had unintended consequences, they have still demonstrated to many parishioners that his concerns are far removed from theirs.”

How absurd a statement… as if doctrine does not correspond to reality. Benedict is supremely aware of the actual and political ramifications of doctrine, no one know them better. Has not Benedict spoken and written OVER AND OVER AND OVER about the ramifications of the redefinition of truth and freedom, the rise of moral relativism, and the rejection of Christ and His Church? To make a statement like that is to show complete and utter ignorance of everything that Benedict has ever said. Benedict’s thought on doctrine is of the highest concern to every single parishioner in the Church and every single person outside.

 

[thomasf]

I don’t believe there is such a thing as a ‘good NY Times article’. It can’t be done.

 

[Contarini]

“The larger problem is the inability of the church leadership to come to terms with the modern world,” Mr. Feichtlbauer said. “The problem is a long-term one, and in no way is it solved.”Any thoughts on these larger issues or anything else in the article?

There is no such thing as “the modern world.” It’s a superstitious use of language.

Edwin

 

[averheyen]

The Pope’s doing fine. The media just loves to pounce an anything it can get it’s hands on.

 

[rien]

I wonder if Austria is the first move in a rebellion of Western bishops? The early church elected bishops from the beleiving community. The Pope’s attempts to move the church to a pre-Vatican 2 Tridentine era will not work if the Holy Spirit inspires bishops and faithful to stand up to the Pope.

As some Saints have done in the past and in their times.

 

[RobbyS]

There is no such thing as “the modern world.” It’s a superstitious use of language.

Edwin

“Coming to terms with the modern world.: really means what Jacques Maritain, once an icon for liberal Catholics, caustically described as” genefecting to the world."

 

[richard_wang]

I wonder if Austria is the first move in a rebellion of Western bishops? The early church elected bishops from the beleiving community. The Pope’s attempts to move the church to a pre-Vatican 2 Tridentine era will not work if the Holy Spirit inspires bishops and faithful to stand up to the Pope.

As some Saints have done in the past and in their times.

I am profoundly sadened that any Catholic would make such a statement as you have.

That you would laud disobedience to The Holy Father and encourage possible schism. That you would say that The Holy Spirit wishes such acts.

Perhaps your inordinate attachment to modernity and “The Spirit of Vatican II” has blinded you into making such statements.

In his homily at his inaugural mass, The Holy Father asked all of us to pray that he “not flee for fear of the wolves”. Sadly it seems as if the wolves are circling. Even more distressing it seems the wolves are emerging from the very flock he was charged to protect.

Let us pray that God grant The Holy Father the courage and strength to be our shepherd.

Tu es Petrus et super hanc petram aedificabo ecclesiam meam et portae inferi non praevalebunt adversus eam.
Et tibi dabo claves regni caelorum.

 

[averheyen]

I wonder if Austria is the first move in a rebellion of Western bishops? The early church elected bishops from the beleiving community. The Pope’s attempts to move the church to a pre-Vatican 2 Tridentine era will not work if the Holy Spirit inspires bishops and faithful to stand up to the Pope.

As some Saints have done in the past and in their times.

I’m gonna level with you, that’s a pretty terrible thing to say.

 

[redrosetea]

I don’t believe there is such a thing as a ‘good NY Times article’. It can’t be done.

Funny how that stench carries so far on the wind isn’t it Tom?..You can smell the lies all the way across the country

 

[Corki]

I wonder if Austria is the first move in a rebellion of Western bishops? The Pope’s attempts to move the church to a pre-Vatican 2 Tridentine era will not work if the Holy Spirit inspires bishops and faithful to stand up to the Pope.

I think you may be right that there are some signs of a rebellion of Western Bishops. Austria is not the first move in this rebellion, however.

The Pope, if anything, is trying to move the Church to a more authentic Vatican II church.

If Bishops and the “faithful” stand up to the Pope in matters of clear Church authority, it may be by inspiration but that inspiration is definately NOT of the Holy Spirit.

I am profoundly sadened that any Catholic would make such a statement as you have.
Tu es Petrus et super hanc petram aedificabo ecclesiam meam et portae inferi non praevalebunt adversus eam.
Et tibi dabo claves regni caelorum.

Don’t worry, based on previous posts, I don’t believe Rein is a Catholic. Many people outside the Church take delight in what they see as division from within.

“…upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.”

 

[estesbob]

nytimes.com/2009/02/17/world/europe/17pope.html?ref=world&pagewanted=all

This is a good NYT article in that it points to issues “larger” than the three scandals it mentions: 1. SSPX Holocaust bishop; 2. the now rescinded promotion of Fr Wagner to be bishop in Austria 3. the evolving scandal of the Legion of Christ and its founder. There’s lots of information in the article. Here are some of the “larger” issues.

a debate within the church over whether Pope Benedict XVI’s focus on doctrine and his perceived insensitivity to political tone are alienating mainstream Catholics and undermining the church’s moral authority… The Vatican expert George Weigel … criticized the Vatican for its “chaos, confusion and incompetence.”…

the Austrian newspaper Die Presse said on its front page on Monday, “His name stands for a battle over direction: should Linz be more faithful to Rome or should the church be more democratic and more liberal?” … concerns by centrist Catholics about the direction of the church and their place within it. … [some] see Benedict’s interest in reaching out to traditionalists as perfectly consistent with his past views … “… fear that by accepting the bishops of the Society of St. Pius X back into the church, the liturgical and theological reforms of Vatican II are somehow endangered”…

The quick decision by the Vatican to accept Father Wagner’s withdrawal in Austria may reflect a new sensitivity … and would not have been made lightly, says Hubert Feichtlbauer … “The Vatican really took a risk, and had to consider the possibility that other places might put up similar resistance to unwanted candidates,” he said… “The larger problem is the inability of the church leadership to come to terms with the modern world,” Mr. Feichtlbauer said. “The problem is a long-term one, and in no way is it solved.”
Any thoughts on these larger issues or anything else in the article?

I wonder what the “mainstream Catholic” is? As usual the New York Times has to label everybody and look at everything in terms of left and right. The pope is doing fine.

 

[Teelynn]

The New York Times, like every other mainstream media HATES the Catholic Church. They are one of the leaders of the pack in regard to liberal ideology and in trying to sway public opinion to their way of viewing what they think the world should look like.

“Come to terms with the modern world?” We as Catholic Christians are not called to “come to terms with the modern world.” We are called to live IN THE WORLD and NOT BE OF THE WORLD. That direction comes from Christ Himself. The “centrist” Catholics as usual trying to call their own shots, and lead the Church in the direction THEY WANT IT TO GO. I love how they are forever telling the Vicar of Christ to get out of their way.