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patrick457
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By the way, that same section of The Legends of the Jews has a rather interesting paragraph where God and Moses just argue with each other:
Moses did indeed manage the Angels of Destruction, but it was a more difficult matter to appease God in His wrath. He addressed Moses harshly, crying: “The grievous sins of men had once caused Me to go down from heaven to see their doings. Do thou likewise go down from heaven now. It is fitting that the servant be treated as his master. Do thou now go down. Only for Israel’s sake have I caused this honor to fall to thy lot, but now that Israel has become disloyal to Me, I have not further reason thus to distinguish thee.”
Moses hereupon answered: “O Lord of the world! Not long since didst Thou say to me: ‘Come now, therefore, and I will send thee that thou mayest bring forth My people out of Egypt;’ and now Thou callest them my people. Nay, whether pious or sinful, they are Thy people still.” Moses continued: “What wilt Thou now do with them?”
God answered: “I will consume them, and I will make of thee a great nation.”
“O Lord of the world!” replied Moses, “If the three-legged bench has no stability, how then shall the one-legged stand? Fulfil not, I implore Thee, the prophecies of the Egyptian magicians, who predicted to their king that the star ‘Ra’ah’ would move as a harbinger of blood and death before the Israelites.”
Then he began to implore mercy for Israel: “Consider their readiness to accept the Torah, whereas the sons of Esau rejected it.”
God: “But they transgressed the precepts of the Torah; one day were they loyal to Me, then instantly set to work to make themselves the Golden Calf.”
Moses: “Consider that when in Thy name I came to Egypt and announced to them Thy name, they at once believed in me, and bowed down their heads and worshipped Thee.”
God: “But they now bow down their heads before their idol.”
Moses: “Consider that they sent Thee their young men to offer Thee burnt offerings.”
God: “They now offered sacrifices to the Golden Calf.”
Moses: “Consider that on Sinai they acknowledged that Thou are their God.”
God: “They now acknowledge that the idol is their god.”
All these arguments with God did not help Moses; he even had to put up with having the blame for the Golden Calf laid on his shoulders.
“Moses,” said God, “when Israel was still in Egypt, I gave thee the commission to lead them out of the land, but not take with thee the mixed multitude that wanted to join them. But thou in thy clemency and humility didst persuade Me to accept the penitent that do penance, and didst take with thee the mixed multitude. I did as thou didst beg me, although I knew what the consequences would be, and it is now these people, ‘thy people,’ that have seduced Israel to idolatry.”
Moses now thought it would be useless to try to secure God’s forgiveness for Israel, and was ready to give up his intercession, when God, who in reality meant to preserve Israel, but only like to hear Moses pray, now spoke kindly to Moses to let him see that He was not quite inaccessible to his exhortations, saying: “Even in Egypt did I foresee what this people would do after their deliverance. Thou foresawest only the receiving of the Torah on Sinai, but I foresaw the worship of the Calf as well.”
With these words, God let Moses perceive that the defection of Israel was no surprise to Him, as He had considered it even before the exodus from Egypt; hence Moses now gathered new courage to intercede for Israel. He said: “O Lord of the world! Israel has indeed created a rival for Thee in their idol, that Thou are angry with them. The Calf, I supposed, shall bid stars and moon to appear, while Thou makest the sun to rise; Thou shalt send the dew and he will cause the wind to blow; Thou shalt send down the rain, and he shall bid the plants to grow.”
God: “Moses, thou are mistaken, like them, and knowest not that the idol is absolutely nothing.”
“If so,” said Moses, “why art Thou angry with Thy people for that which is nothing?”
“Besides,” he continued, “Thou didst say Thyself that it was chiefly my people, the mixed multitude, that was to blame for this sin, why then art Thou angry with Thy people? If Thou art angry with them only because they have not observed the Torah, then let me vouch for the observance of it on the part of my companions, such as Aaron and his sons, Joshua and Caleb, Jair and Machir, as well as many pious men among them, and myself.”
But God said: “I have vowed that ‘He that sacrificeth unto any god, save unto the Lord only, he shall be utterly destroyed,’ and a vow that has once passe My lips, I can not retract.”
Moses replied: “O Lord of the world! Has not Thou given us the law of absolution from a vow, whereby power is given to a learned man to absolve any one from his vows? But every judge who desires to have his decisions accounted valid, must subject himself to the law, and Thou who has prescribed the law of absolution from vows through a learned man, must subject Thyself to this law, and through me be absolved from Thy vow.”
Moses thereupon wrapped his robe about him, seated himself, and bade God let him absolve Him from his vow, bidding Him say: “I repent of the evil that I had determined to bring upon My people.” Moses then cried out to Him: “Thou art absolved from Thine oath and vow.”
All I can say is, Moses sure is an expert in argument.
Moses did indeed manage the Angels of Destruction, but it was a more difficult matter to appease God in His wrath. He addressed Moses harshly, crying: “The grievous sins of men had once caused Me to go down from heaven to see their doings. Do thou likewise go down from heaven now. It is fitting that the servant be treated as his master. Do thou now go down. Only for Israel’s sake have I caused this honor to fall to thy lot, but now that Israel has become disloyal to Me, I have not further reason thus to distinguish thee.”
Moses hereupon answered: “O Lord of the world! Not long since didst Thou say to me: ‘Come now, therefore, and I will send thee that thou mayest bring forth My people out of Egypt;’ and now Thou callest them my people. Nay, whether pious or sinful, they are Thy people still.” Moses continued: “What wilt Thou now do with them?”
God answered: “I will consume them, and I will make of thee a great nation.”
“O Lord of the world!” replied Moses, “If the three-legged bench has no stability, how then shall the one-legged stand? Fulfil not, I implore Thee, the prophecies of the Egyptian magicians, who predicted to their king that the star ‘Ra’ah’ would move as a harbinger of blood and death before the Israelites.”
Then he began to implore mercy for Israel: “Consider their readiness to accept the Torah, whereas the sons of Esau rejected it.”
God: “But they transgressed the precepts of the Torah; one day were they loyal to Me, then instantly set to work to make themselves the Golden Calf.”
Moses: “Consider that when in Thy name I came to Egypt and announced to them Thy name, they at once believed in me, and bowed down their heads and worshipped Thee.”
God: “But they now bow down their heads before their idol.”
Moses: “Consider that they sent Thee their young men to offer Thee burnt offerings.”
God: “They now offered sacrifices to the Golden Calf.”
Moses: “Consider that on Sinai they acknowledged that Thou are their God.”
God: “They now acknowledge that the idol is their god.”
All these arguments with God did not help Moses; he even had to put up with having the blame for the Golden Calf laid on his shoulders.
“Moses,” said God, “when Israel was still in Egypt, I gave thee the commission to lead them out of the land, but not take with thee the mixed multitude that wanted to join them. But thou in thy clemency and humility didst persuade Me to accept the penitent that do penance, and didst take with thee the mixed multitude. I did as thou didst beg me, although I knew what the consequences would be, and it is now these people, ‘thy people,’ that have seduced Israel to idolatry.”
Moses now thought it would be useless to try to secure God’s forgiveness for Israel, and was ready to give up his intercession, when God, who in reality meant to preserve Israel, but only like to hear Moses pray, now spoke kindly to Moses to let him see that He was not quite inaccessible to his exhortations, saying: “Even in Egypt did I foresee what this people would do after their deliverance. Thou foresawest only the receiving of the Torah on Sinai, but I foresaw the worship of the Calf as well.”
With these words, God let Moses perceive that the defection of Israel was no surprise to Him, as He had considered it even before the exodus from Egypt; hence Moses now gathered new courage to intercede for Israel. He said: “O Lord of the world! Israel has indeed created a rival for Thee in their idol, that Thou are angry with them. The Calf, I supposed, shall bid stars and moon to appear, while Thou makest the sun to rise; Thou shalt send the dew and he will cause the wind to blow; Thou shalt send down the rain, and he shall bid the plants to grow.”
God: “Moses, thou are mistaken, like them, and knowest not that the idol is absolutely nothing.”
“If so,” said Moses, “why art Thou angry with Thy people for that which is nothing?”
“Besides,” he continued, “Thou didst say Thyself that it was chiefly my people, the mixed multitude, that was to blame for this sin, why then art Thou angry with Thy people? If Thou art angry with them only because they have not observed the Torah, then let me vouch for the observance of it on the part of my companions, such as Aaron and his sons, Joshua and Caleb, Jair and Machir, as well as many pious men among them, and myself.”
But God said: “I have vowed that ‘He that sacrificeth unto any god, save unto the Lord only, he shall be utterly destroyed,’ and a vow that has once passe My lips, I can not retract.”
Moses replied: “O Lord of the world! Has not Thou given us the law of absolution from a vow, whereby power is given to a learned man to absolve any one from his vows? But every judge who desires to have his decisions accounted valid, must subject himself to the law, and Thou who has prescribed the law of absolution from vows through a learned man, must subject Thyself to this law, and through me be absolved from Thy vow.”
Moses thereupon wrapped his robe about him, seated himself, and bade God let him absolve Him from his vow, bidding Him say: “I repent of the evil that I had determined to bring upon My people.” Moses then cried out to Him: “Thou art absolved from Thine oath and vow.”
All I can say is, Moses sure is an expert in argument.
