An Apology

[lak611]

I’m sure he has the utmost respect for the scriptures but you have to understand the Church and the Apostles words existed before the first Gospel or Apistle was ever written.

Without the Church, Holy Spirit, the Magesterium, and Apostolic Tradition the Bible is only as good as the person who is interpreting it. And all you have to do is look at the world today and come to the conclusion that many times that ain’t much…

From the Catechism of the Catholic Church :

82 As a result the Church, to whom the transmission and interpretation of Revelation is entrusted, “does not derive her certainty about all revealed truths from the holy Scriptures alone. **Both Scripture and Tradition must be accepted and honoured with equal sentiments of devotion and reverence.”**44]

Scripture is of equal importance as Tradition.

 

[lukewarm]

From the Catechism of the Catholic Church : Scripture is of equal importance as Tradition.

I never said it wasn’t, in fact that’s my entre point…

 

[Singinbeauty]

LOL oversimplify much?

Sure God could do that, but I don’t think He does, otherwise we wouldn’t have 30,000+ different interpretations of the same text. Heck if that was the case all Christ had to do was drop a book on Earth and forget the Apostles altogether.

I only asked do you think He COULD… I never said that it is the ONLY way. Why don’t you think He does this? How does a successor of the apostles know? By humans or by God? Christ said to come to Him like children. I really believe that this means not to think about it too much because when we THINK about it to death it becomes more conveluted than it really is.

Forget it I think I’m over your head, if you read what I wrote without any presumption of what I am, and take it strictly on its own merit, you may actually be able to engage in a grown up dialogue instead of just judging my intent and belief in Christ.

Wow, I struck a nerve. Now you are calling me an idiot? Nice charity my friend. Glad you aren’t the ONLY example of the catholic church though there are quite a few of you out there…

I thought I was having an adult conversation but you can’t have one without insults apparently…

 

[Zooey]

Zooey,

I don’t understand your statement (which I boldened above)
Could you elucidate us dull bulbs on this one?

I was arguing from the Catechism of the Catholic Church. I have not been arguing from Methodist doctrine, nor any other non-Catholic doctrine.
The Catholic Church teaches that, for baptism to be baptism, that it must be done after the proper Trinitarian formula. (Which is only common sense, really).
Lukewarm seems to believe that there is no difference from a cult (Mormons) who deny the Trinity & affirm their own progression to godhood, and non-Catholic Christians like myself, who are as appalled as Catholics when Mormons claim to be Christian, whilst despising Christ.

And I do not think Lukewarm is insulting Jesus in this thread, either. I can see what he means (although he does jump about in places) but I think that statement is a little harsh.
Robert

When he says, repeatedly, that there is no difference between a Mormon & a Methodist, he is saying (even if he can’t see it), that it makes no difference whether a person believes that Jesus Christ is the 2nd Person of the Trinity, & whether He is thought of as an earlier version of Joseph Smith.
That’s an insult to Christ, and it’s a slap at His suffering & death. Mind you, I don’t think he realizes that. If I did, I wouldn’t have called it an insult. I would have called it something a good deal worse.

Plenty of protestants disregard the Creeds, Baptists for one,

Pfui!!! They don’t recite them, perhaps; at least some of them. But they believe what they say, all the same.

also you may recite the creeds but you most certainly deny the Communion of Saints.

You need to call up my posts here, yean. You have no idea what I do & don’t believe or deny.

Anyway I haven’t insulted our Lord at all, I’m having a dialogue but you are incapable of it I see. You aren’t following simple logic.

I can follow simple logic.
I can follow fairly complex logic.
I carry on dialogues all the time.
It’s you I don’t follow, laddie.

 

[Hellisreal]

:blushing: I feel rather badly and so I repent of some of my humor. I have a rather sarcastic sense of humour born of watching too many English comedies growing up.

While I find some Roman Catholic practices superstitious and am amused by the appearances of the BVM to faithful Catholics on tortillas and rusted water towers…I should NOT be making fun of it on a Roman Catholic forum. I am a guest here and the humor may seem quite disrespectful to the **faithfully held beliefs **about these items. I do not believe the Saint regrew his hand BUT I should not make fun of someone who does. It was rather insensitive and uncharitable and I am sorry. Respect should be the watchword and I did not demonstrate that well at all.

Es tut mir leid oder…mea cupla mea cupla mea maxima culpa.

Rev North

Was I the only one in this longggg thread to pick up on this?

You can not equate any of the things you described here

“tortillas” “rusted water towers”

There are so many more its incredible you can only cite these.

You have no right to call this “faithfully held beliefs”

Can you cite any papal approval for these things?

NOPPERS.

Why?

Cause some really sincere but misguided and uneducated Catholics seem to think its a “wonder”?

Who cares?

Make fun of uneducated people all you want to.

You suddenly lost all my respect.

 

[Rbt_Southwell]

Oh, we “got” it alright.

He is passive-aggressive in his comments, hence, my statement as to those who go Orthodox and believe they are in the original Church of Christ.

Robert

 

[Rbt_Southwell]

What do you mean? Catholics need Scripture, Tradition and the Magisterium. Catholics cannot throw away the Bible. After all, we use it in every Mass.

Precisely.

We heard the Word of God. It was preached to all of our ancestral illiterate (unable to read and write) Christian forebearers.

Attending Mass and Solemnities ensured the hearing of the Gospel (remember the Great Gospel from St John at the end of every pre-Vatican II Mass?) in the 3 year cycle.

The Liturgy of the Hours taught us the Psalms.

And, the Mass was ALWAYS in the vernacular prior to Trent in the 16th century. The first books printed in various languages were usually Catholic (no ‘other’ Christian church) bibles: the slavic languages; vietnamese; german; russian; old english; danish and so on.

We have that koine Greek leftover (the Kyrie) still enshrined in our Novus Ordo.

We are NOT a People of the Book (the Catechism even says so), we are the People of God, who hear the Word of God in our Mass and in our lives and respond to it.

The Bible is great, it enriches our Catholic lives. But, the reading of it is not necessary in order to attain salvation.

It is necessary, however, to refute those cafeteria-Christians who pick and choose verses to weave whole cloths of Corner Worship Centers or to (as many Episcopalian churches in San Luis Obispo county contend) assert that the crime of Sodom and Gomorrah was not homosexual in nature (regardless of what Psalms and Jesus states in the Gospels) but were “sins against hospitality.”

This is what I meant by my statement.

Robert

 

[lukewarm]

I only asked do you think He COULD… I never said that it is the ONLY way. Why don’t you think He does this? How does a successor of the apostles know? By humans or by God? Christ said to come to Him like children. I really believe that this means not to think about it too much because when we THINK about it to death it becomes more conveluted than it really is.

Wow, I struck a nerve. Now you are calling me an idiot? Nice charity my friend. Glad you aren’t the ONLY example of the catholic church though there are quite a few of you out there…

I thought I was having an adult conversation but you can’t have one without insults apparently…

You call out my charity level for calling you a name I never said? What are you even talking about? “Idiot” is YOUR word not mine. I simply said that you can’t follow what I’m writing because you have an agenda to argue with me, instead of just reading what I wrote and commenting on what is written . Instead you have to start insulting me, my beliefs, saying I’m insulting Jesus or some other such nonsense that has zero basis in this discussion. So go ahead and insult me I won’t play that game back.

In fact I’ll put you on ignore altogether…

 

[Rachel_Malloy]

This thread is closed.

Please remember to maintain your charity at all times when posting here. This includes subtle yet snide comments and personal digs.

God bless

Rachel