An Atheist ex-witch serving you the Eucharist.

[TBolt1000T]

Abbadon, here’s a take on this from a non-Catholic Christian, but one who believes in the Real Presence. please tell your mother that she needs to read 1 Cor 11:27-30, then in the light of what that scripture says, she needs to rethink what she’s having you do. She is making you eat and drink damnation on yourself. I know you don’t believe that, but I’m pretty sure that after your mom reads that passage, she’ll understand what I’m saying.

And yes, you could potentially hurt your whole parish by causing scandle. If I was in that parish, and I knew what was going on with you, I’d be out of there faster than a bullet out of a gun, because I would think little good of a parish that would knowingly let that go on. Receiving Communion from you would feel almost as bad to me as receiving from a pediphile. The Blessed Sacrament is not something to be messed with.

 

[Seatuck]

Although an Atheist and a once practitioner (still lover) of witchcraft and paganism (just because it’s not real doesn’t mean you can’t like it), I am still rather involved in the church. Out of my mothers request I am a minister (I think that is what they are called). Either way I say the body of Christ (or blood if I got the chalice) and give people the wafer or wine.

So what are peoples thoughts about an ex-witch/pagan and current atheist serving them the body and blood of their lord savior Jesus Christ? I also used to serve when I was a witch to.

I have a problem with it. EMOHC are supposed to be Catholics in good standing and able to participate worthily in the sacraments and that doesn’t really fit you now does it? One of the biggest thing that glares out at me is the lying. You are professing to believe in something that you do not believe in. You are saying Amen which means I believe -It is the truth and attempting to partake of the Eucharist.You are stating that you believe the church teaches the truth and that the Eucharist is God. You are lying to your mother and letting her believe that her child is Catholic. Do Atheists have an issue with lies?

 

[Teteli]

To offer a slightly different perspective…

As a practicing Pagan, I would never serve Catholic Eucharist. It would feel disrespectful to the Catholics I was serving (even if they didn’t know), I would feel like a liar (by telling people that this was the body and blood of Christ when I don’t believe that to be true), and, most importantly, it would be disrespectful and downright blasphemous towards the God and Goddess I do worship. Many atheists I know feel the same way… they may not mind attending church or Mass if it makes their loved ones happy, and as long as they’re not required to do anything, but to actively stand in front of a congregation and lie to them about the wafer and the wine and what they’ll do would go against their integrity and intellectual honesty.

But you weren’t asking about how you should feel, you were asking about how others might feel. So… turn it around.

My group is pretty eclectic; we have Pagans from many different traditions. When we gather for rites and rituals, we often have atheists, Catholics, and Protestants in our midst. As long as they have no problem joining our circle, we love to have them. Religion is as much about community as it is about belief, after all, and if they’re part of our community (or want to be), we’ll welcome them with open arms even if they don’t share our belief. But if someone were actively casting the circle or leading a ritual, and I knew they actively disbelieved in what they were doing, I would feel a little uncomfortable. It would feel like they were lying, playacting, and in so doing, belittling something sacred to me. Making it nothing more than empty words, and not the holy ceremony it’s supposed to be. Talk to your Pagan and Wiccan friends and see if they don’t feel the same. That’s probably how Catholics would feel if they found out an atheist was serving them the Eucharist.

(Or, if I may quote a man I respect even if I don’t worship him: “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.” Would you enjoy being lied to?)

 

[PeteO]

Wait wait… no seriously…

Oh man, this reminds me of me when I was like 16! It’s scary- like looking into a metaphorical text mirror.

After reading his responses I even get that old feeling I used to get, like I was so intelligent or something. Oh my goodness, this is rich. I think God sends these people and lets me fall into their path to remind me why I’m a Christian.

Oh praise the Lord, thank you Christ! I know you’ll turn this man’s heart just like you turned mine! Some advice: Stop playing WC3.

And a prayer for you “Abaddon”:
May you be turned over to Satan for destruction of the flesh, so that in the end you might be saved. Cor 5:5

 

[PeteO]

But if someone were actively casting the circle or leading a ritual, and I knew they actively disbelieved in what they were doing, I would feel a little uncomfortable. It would feel like they were lying, playacting, and in so doing, belittling something sacred to me. Making it nothing more than empty words, and not the holy ceremony it’s supposed to be.

While I would agree it is wrong to mock anyone’s beliefs, and everyone of course can believe what they wish- there is still a correct and incorrect belief.
I know many ex-Pagans, and the sheer irony of the fact that they felt they were doing something sacred was almost overwhelming to me. Worshipping Satan is never sacred, I don’t care what fancy name they give it, whether it be Paganism, atheism(self-god), ‘emergent’ christianity, whatever. And that is exactly what they were doing whether they knew it or not.
People who worship false gods always pay the price in this world and the next, and it’s sad for me to see this happen, especially when there are so many “good” people who fall for that lie.
Lies are especially dangerous when they come in the form that pagans present, mainly that “everythings ok”, “everyone’s beliefs are just fine”, and all the other frighteningly shallow mentalities that are promoted.

We can see the effects of the pagan mentality in our world today, just as in ancient rome and greece- homsoexuality, pedophilia, abortion, euthanasia and infanticide are the price we pay when we worship Satan through paganism and any other religion. Prayers to the devil mean nothing, so yes, emptiness is what they will obtain.

 

[Teteli]

pets PeteO Yes, dear. Your rebuttal that my words are null and void because I’m actually worshiping Satan has been duly noted.

 

[raffo]

Teteli, thanks for being truthful. Some Catholics who attend your rituals, are some of them nuns and women 50+ years? I heard something that a few have come to the “age of enlightenment” and have come up with some prayers to a goddess.

 

[sedonaman]

“Results since the (Vatican II) Council, seem to be in cruel contrast to the expectations of all, beginning with those of John XXIII and Paul VI. … The Popes and the Council Fathers were expecting a new Catholic unity, and instead one has encountered a dissension that – to use the words of Paul VI – seems to have gone from self-criticism to self-destruction. A new enthusiasm was expected, but too often there has been boredom and discouragement instead. A new leap forward was expected, but instead we find ourselves facing a process of progressive decadence. … It must be clearly stated that a real reform of the Church presupposes an unequivocal turning away from the erroneous paths that led to indisputably negative consequences.” – Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger, Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith

 

[miggle]

Yes. Funnily enough I am fairly well versed in the bible and Christianity and am rather involved in youth group… I’m also good friends with the local priest and nuns and often have lengthy debates on religion. However I’m not officially “out” as an atheist.

It is not funny at all. You have no business being involved in youth ministry. I agree with an earlier post that, if I send my child to youth ministry, I have a right to expect them to be taught the traditions and principles of our Faith, respectfully. It is fair to expect that they will not be taught by someone who has such disrespect and distain for that which I hold to be true, which sounds like your intent. Go find a girl scout troop to lead, if you must, but stop interfering with our children’s lives within out Church. They get plenty of influence from the masses without your ‘help’.

And… if you are presenting the truth … you ARE keeping one of the Ten Commandments… “Honor your mother and father.” So while you are doing something you deem meaningless, God is taking note of your honoring your mother. However, He is also taking note of your living a lie, so I hope it goes well for you in the future. God bless you!

I respectfully disagree with the above statement about 'honoring your mother". If your posts are true, you have no business participating in communion in any fashion. You are NOT honoring your mother by a) lying to her or b) thumbing your nose at that which we hold most the sacred, the Eucharist. It does not honor a mother or father if a child lies or misrepresents their intention. Attending Mass would be honoring your mother. Showing such condescending and distainful attitudes toward the Catholic Faith is not honoring anyone. Pretending to care for your parent’s sake is not only dishonest, it is weak. My daughter does not believe in what she considers to be ‘organized religion’ (though I shudder to think what disorganized religion would be like). She did, however, attend Mass at the Cathedral this Easter (a first). She would never presume to receive Holy Communion, although ‘technically’ she could. In this way, she honored me without being disrespectful.

My final thought is for those who believe that no harm is done by someone who does not believe in the the real Presence both receiving and distributing the Eucharist. I would ask that you look to the messages of Our Lady relating to how Jesus suffers when those who receive the Eucharist when they are not in communion with the Church. In her messages, I recall descriptions of Jesus’ body suffering sores from all those who are receiving Communion while not in a state of Grace. There are certain requirements that are to be met in order to receive Communion, even as a practicing, believing Catholic: First, you must be in a state of grace. Second, you must have been to confession since your last mortal sin. Canon Law requires, “A person who is conscious of a grave sin is not to . . . receive the body of the Lord without prior sacramental confession…” I thought it was a requirement that you have gone to confession at least one time per year, during the lenton season, but I may be wrong. Third, you must believe in the doctrine of transubstantiation. Fourth, you must observe the Eucharistic fast. Even if you were to go to confession, it would be invalid if you do not believe. The idea of the Jesus suffering because of your actions saddens me. Since you claim to be welll-versed in the bible, your choice is not one out of ignorance. More to the point, my suspicion is that you may enjoy the idea of having such power. This is a loss both for you and for the people who make up the Church.

You claim to be good friends with the priests and nuns. Do you lie to all of your friends, or just the Catholic ones? I can’t help but think that you simply enjoy ‘poking’ at Catholics.
I will admit that your posting has triggered some interesting conversation, thought-provoking responses and prayers. One of the many ways in which God can use all things for His good, if we let Him.

If your post is genuine, I ask that you reconsider your actions out of decency and respect for those of us who are believers, particularly your mother. Otherwise, you fall into the category of those who mocked Christ while he carried the cross. Not a very kind picture.

Respectfully,
Maggie S.

 

[Teteli]

Raffo - not really; we do have one older woman who’s Methodist, though. She had a bit of a disillusionment when her church, that she’d been a faithful member of for most of her life, turned their back on her when she needed them most. shrugs Their loss is our gain; we adore her.

Your question does bring up an interesting point, though. At the risk of incurring the wrath of everyone here, many Pagans do see similarities between our beliefs and Catholicism. I’d love to discuss that but I don’t want to hijack this thread - could someone more familiar with this forum suggest a better place to have that conversation?

 

[elizabeth22]

Cinette, it’s funny you should talk about loving and caring for all people. I have an extended member of my family that is truly a “wounded soul” and in need of prayers. He says he doesn’t believe in all that religious “stuff.” Love and prayers should extend to all.

 

[Teteli]

Elizabeth22 - AMEN. Love knows no boundaries.

 

[larsenl1]

Raffo - not really; we do have one older woman who’s Methodist, though. She had a bit of a disillusionment when her church, that she’d been a faithful member of for most of her life, turned their back on her when she needed them most. shrugs Their loss is our gain; we adore her.

Your question does bring up an interesting point, though. At the risk of incurring the wrath of everyone here, many Pagans do see similarities between our beliefs and Catholicism. I’d love to discuss that but I don’t want to hijack this thread - could someone more familiar with this forum suggest a better place to have that conversation?

There is a forum for non-catholic regligions and that might work.

 

[pnewton]

My opinion is when an Atheist says “Body of Christ” he makes himself a liar. Even atheists usually find some validity in having a morality based on the common good, so I do not get how anyone who is an atheist could do this. However, the Father of all lies is also the Father of all evil. I consider this man’s actions extremely evil.

 

[rwoehmke]

Okay the general jist of it seems to be slightly offended yet no difference is made to the sacrament it’s self. Other than the damning of my soul and my own mortal sinning, which I don’t care about anyway…

Now I pose another predicament. While on youth camp one year I heard about some satanic groups that pay handsomely to swap the communion wafer with some hexed or cursed wafer. I sought but could not find any such group so it’s highly likely that the pastor was making it up, as they are often prone to do.

But if this given scenario was real. Access to the communion is very easy for me and my little brother (alter boy). And no doubt for some money he and I could collude to swap literally all the wafers for identical yet “cursed” wafers.

Now I know since it would defy everything we know about chemistry and biology, that nothing would happen. But I’m curious as to peoples thoughts about this. What do you think would happen? and how do you know if you are not eating cursed communion?

I stopped reading the postings on this thread at this point. Some good orthodox comments were made that I agree with, but at this point in the thread my conclusion is that you have not only a spiritual problem, but also appear to have more than one screw loose. I have interacted with all sorts of agnostics, witches, and atheists in my lifetime and my feeling is that they would agree with me on this point. Lady you have problems that you don’t even recognize. Get some help.

 

[Amy_Beth]

I will pray for you but as an atheist why would you want to be an Eucharist Minister and distribute Holy Communion!! Did you lie and give the impression that you were a practicing catholic or is the some idea of a weird joke! If so, I hope that you find better things to do with your time. Amy

 

[Leela]

…you have not only a spiritual problem, but also appear to have more than one screw loose…

…says the person who believes their god can be eaten in the form of a cracker. I’m not trying to be disrespectful of your practices but to make a point. Don’t you see that your beliefs could look a little screwy as well to someone who doesn’t share them? Do you really think telling Abbadon she’s crazy is going to be helpful here? Personally I see it as a toss up. Administering the sacrament while believing or disbelieving sounds just as screwy to me either way. No, I take that back. Believing sounds screwier.

Lady you have problems that you don’t even recognize. Get some help.

I’m sure this was meant with all the famous Christian charity and compassion you can muster, but it didn’t come off that way at all.

 

[mary1173]

I would answer Yes to both your last questions. I frown - how can a priest who has been through the seminary, consecrated the bread and wine end up not believing in God? How sad. I feel like unsubscribing from this thread. I don’t belong to this world. I seek something different…

Don’t let that posters words shake you.He is someone who wishes to scatter the flock on this web page. Don’t let this person’s words affect you to the point of giving up on God. God hasn’t given up on you. God hasn’t given upon ANYof us…we …some of us just may not realize that right now.

Don’t let someone else’s troubles become your own Stay here with us at CAF this priest…if he is one…isn’t the one you live your life for. You live your life to honor and love God. Not for the priest at the alter.

Hang in there! God loves you!

 

[ntenaglia]

Okay, so let me see if I’ve got this right, you used to be pagan (Wiccan I assume) and even though you don’t believe in any kind of deity you still meet with coven and honor the deity in ritual despite not believing in it. Which brings up the question if you’re meeting with your coven for the social aspect and not to honor God …have you no friends???

 

[LDNCatholic]

People.

Please, listen up here.

Abaddon is just a long time trouble maker. He starts these threads every now and then to get a rise out of people.

I can remember a little over a year ago he started a thread asking how he could get a job as the grim reaper. He was ‘‘surprised’’ to find out that the grim reaper was not part of Catholic theology.

I doubt he was baptised. I have doubts he even knows any Catholics.

If you are being sincere here, you know what you are doing is wrong, show some respect towards the Catholics. Or at least have some bloody dignity and admit you are an atheist instead of hiding behind the Faith as some sort of security blanket.

People who are too scared to admit what they are are just cowards.