An Honest Question for Any Honest Muslim

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GaryTaylor said:
So those who don’t want to subcribe to the Book of Islam must either leave your country, convert to Islam or be subjected to Islams law period? Right?
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Hardly any Muslim country has implemented all of the laws of Sharia.

I do not see this situation changing anytime soon and so persistent big-time sinners need not be unduly concerned while they are still in this world.

BTW, converting to Islam is not going to offer anyone immunity from Islamic laws.
 
hamba2han said:
Hardly any Muslim country has implemented all of the laws of Sharia.

I do not see this situation changing anytime soon and so persistent big-time sinners need not be unduly concerned.

BTW, converting to Islam is not going to offer anyone immunity from Islamic laws.
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I hear that, actually they would be the ones you see most affected by this today.
 
Mort_Alz said:
I see 👍

it has a few similarities with the unpardonable sin in Christianity of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. If someone has repented, then they had not committed it.

Also, talk of God being forgiving and merciful in Islam is a very similar theme to that of Christianity and even Judaism, but both Judaism and Christianity have atonements for evil, some way to pay the price. In Judaism it was regular animal sacrifice, in Christianity, it was Jesus. What does Islam profess atones for humankind’s sins?
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You have to keep repenting. There’s no “get out of jail free” card.

But with sincere repentence, the following are ways for a person’s sins to be forgiven:
(1) converting to Islam (from another religion)–all previous sins forgiven
(2) making hajj–previous sins forgiven
(3) fasting the month of Ramadan–previous sins forgiven
(4) prayer–previous sins forgiven
(5) attending Friday congregational prayer – for minor sins during the week
(6) making wudhu–for minor sins since the last wudhu
(7) fasting Arafat day (sins of previous and following year)
(8) fasting first of Muharram (sins of previous year)

And that’s just what comes to mind off the top of my head.
 
rikkk1958 said:
If one is allowed to repent, why would muslims judge to one’s sin? Why a sinner be stoned to death? Where is the “no matter what your sin is” doctrine? I think that overtime Muslims want to correct Islamic teachings, and the abrogations are enormously made already to the Quran. A well informed Christian will never get converted. There is a huge difference with Quran and the Holy Bible. Not even close.
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In fact, there are some sins which do need to be “judged” in this world. Not private sins, but those which affect society.

If a person steals, can society say “We don’t want to judge the thief…” and not punish him? According to Islam, a person has violated someone else’s right. So sometimes, punishment is in order.

Now, the biggest point about punishment isn’t so much to punish the sinner but to protect the whole society from the ill. A public punishment is a strong deterrent–that’s why God prescribed them in the first place, way back with the Torah, even. Muhammad (saws) tried to avoid punishing people even when they came to him admitting their sins. The point, you see, isn’t to just punish people.

In the case of adultery, even if the punishment is going to be applied, there have to be no less than 4 witnesses to the act. Four! Can you imagine someone committing adultery where four people would be able to see them? Bringing a claim without four witnesses is liable to get the accuser in trouble instead of the accused. So people don’t go around making accusations and “judgments.” It’s in the hands of the law. And the law is supposed to protect the rights of the people, and the society.
 
So if you have Larceny in your heart you’ll be a perishable item.😃
 
GaryTaylor said:
So if you have Larceny in your heart you’ll be a perishable item.😃
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Nobody knows what’s in a person’s heart. Not their religion, not their private sins, not their temptations. So people aren’t punished for what’s in their hearts, but for what their limbs have committed against others.
 
Hey, I’d rather live here too. I agree with you. Even the flaws of American justice leave it a better alternative to almost any Muslim state in the Muslim world, where lawlessness and corruption are rampant.

Note how even the Muslims have been objecting to the their governments lately.
 
It’s not your cynicism at work, my good man, it’s a matter of historical record. The Iranian revolution started out with a group of mostly left-leaning students trying to wrest control of their country out of the hands of a corrupt and murderous aristocracy. Ditto the Ethiopian revolution. Ditto the vast majority of revolutions in the world. Eventually, however, it became a matter of “okay, now what?” and generally the plan followed turned out to be something just as bad if not worse than the original thing it was replacing. And nobody was any more free as a result. In order for true, lasting change to take place, the majority need to be committed to the principles that underlie a democratic (or socialist, or whatever it is their revolution is about) society. In large parts of the world (particularly the Arab world), those principles are unpopular because they’re argued to conflict with religious values which are given a higher priority in the governing of society.

So nobody will be free, but everyone will learn the Qur’an (no matter what their religion is).
 
Sister_Amy said:
Nobody knows what’s in a person’s heart. Not their religion, not their private sins, not their temptations. So people aren’t punished for what’s in their hearts, but for what their limbs have committed against others.
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Larceny in the Heart is a term for those who cannot stop stealing in the US, and are repeat offenders in the US Courts. Persistant Larceny Offenders.🙂

Adultery in Islam is anyone not married also? Thats forbidden, illegal, what happens with that?
 
GaryTaylor said:
Larceny in the Heart is a term for those who cannot stop stealing in the US, and are repeat offenders in the US Courts. Persistant Larceny Offenders.🙂

Adultery in Islam is anyone not married also? Thats forbidden, illegal, what happens with that?
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Oh, my bad. Didn’t get the reference–sorry.

Adultery only applies to married people.
When unmarried people (not to each other or anyone else) still engage in intercourse, it’s called just fornication in English. And a different ruling applies. It’s lashes, if proven or possibly exile in some cases, I think.
 
dzheremi said:
It’s not your cynicism at work, my good man, it’s a matter of historical record. The Iranian revolution started out with a group of mostly left-leaning students trying to wrest control of their country out of the hands of a corrupt and murderous aristocracy. Ditto the Ethiopian revolution. Ditto the vast majority of revolutions in the world. Eventually, however, it became a matter of “okay, now what?” and generally the plan followed turned out to be something just as bad if not worse than the original thing it was replacing. And nobody was any more free as a result. In order for true, lasting change to take place, the majority need to be committed to the principles that underlie a democratic (or socialist, or whatever it is their revolution is about) society. In large parts of the world (particularly the Arab world), those principles are unpopular because they’re argued to conflict with religious values which are given a higher priority in the governing of society.

So nobody will be free, but everyone will learn the Qur’an (no matter what their religion is).
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Exactly, thats been the history of world by large for those who have had no goal in mind from the onset. There’s been many noble cause’s that have ended up exacly as stated here. Worse than where they started. And thats my concern
 
Why would anyone convert to Islam? No offense, but I would not convert to a religion like Islam when:

(1) if the basic tenets of its purported law were to be applied I would be killed for trying to leave if that be my will,
(2) Any Muslim could be lying to me about their faith to make it seem better, seeing as how lying is acceptable when it is for the faith (al-Taqiyya and Kitman) and
(3) Early texts that contradict later texts are abrogated by the text that comes later. (I.e Early text says be peaceful to those who reject Allah, later text says kill those who reject Allah and try to leave the faith of Islam)

Now all of this is not to say that I question the honesty of any of the Muslims here at CAF, but on a whole, I am just not very inclined to accept a religion that says lying is O.K under any circumstance. If your religion is the truth, there is no need to lie about it.
 
Sister_Amy said:
Oh, my bad. Didn’t get the reference–sorry.

Adultery only applies to married people.
When unmarried people (not to each other or anyone else) still engage in intercourse, it’s called just fornication in English. And a different ruling applies. It’s lashes, if proven or possibly exile in some cases, I think.
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Good Talking Sister Amy!😉
 
Daegus said:
Why would anyone convert to Islam? No offense, but I would not convert to a religion like Islam when:

(1) if the basic tenets of its purported law were to be applied I would be killed for trying to leave if that be my will,
(2) Any Muslim could be lying to me about their faith to make it seem better, seeing as how lying is acceptable when it is for the faith (al-Taqiyya and Kitman) and
(3) Early texts that contradict later texts are abrogated by the text that comes later. (I.e Early text says be peaceful to those who reject Allah, later text says kill those who reject Allah and try to leave the faith of Islam)

Now all of this is not to say that I question the honesty of any of the Muslims here at CAF, but on a whole, I am just not very inclined to accept a religion that says lying is O.K under any circumstance. If your religion is the truth, there is no need to lie about it.
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(1) That’s not one of Islam’s basic tenets.
(2) Since that’s something that Shi’a do, just stay away from Shi’asm (small minority of Muslims anyway.)
(3) You’re already in a religion that’s later texts contradict earlier ones. Muslims who believe that about Islam, however, are wrong. (No contradiction.)

And about lying–actually, some Catholics on another thread (the one about Muhammad) explained why **they **think lying is okay in some cases. Check it out. 👍
 
Sister_Amy said:
(1) That’s not one of Islam’s basic tenets.
(2) Since that’s something that Shi’a do, just stay away from Shi’asm (small minority of Muslims anyway.)
(3) You’re already in a religion that’s later texts contradict earlier ones. Muslims who believe that about Islam, however, are wrong. (No contradiction.)

And about lying–actually, some Catholics on another thread (the one about Muhammad) explained why **they **think lying is okay in some cases. Check it out. 👍
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(1) I don’t think you understood this point. I was talking about Sharia law. Sharia law IS a part of Islam. Whether you believe it should be implemented everywhere or not is a different question, but that does not negate the fact that it’s a part of Islam.

(2) Read the links. Your claim that only Shias do that is addressed in one of the links.

(3) No, the Bible does not contradict itself. When read in context, there are no contradictions in the book.

Your point about lying has nothing to do with what I’m talking about. A Catholic that lies (bearing of false witness in particular) is not following the tenets of his faith. Our Magisterium has already defined that lying is a sin and whoever does not follow that teaching is in error.
 
You know what I’m going to say, right?

When I find a country that is run by Shari’ah instead of its own customs and a sham elitist power-hungry government, I’ll move here. None exists.
 
Daegus said:
(1) I don’t think you understood this point. I was talking about Sharia law. Sharia law IS a part of Islam. Whether you believe it should be implemented everywhere or not is a different question, but that does not negate the fact that it’s a part of Islam.

(2) Read the links. Your claim that only Shias do that is addressed in one of the links.

(3) No, the Bible does not contradict itself. When read in context, there are no contradictions in the book.

Your point about lying has nothing to do with what I’m talking about. A Catholic that lies (bearing of false witness in particular) is not following the tenets of his faith. Our Magisterium has already defined that lying is a sin and whoever does not follow that teaching is in error.
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If you choose to be ignorant, I can’t stop you.
 
Originally Posted by Sister Amy
Hey, I’d rather live here too. I agree with you. Even the flaws of American justice leave it a better alternative to almost any Muslim state in the Muslim world, where lawlessness and corruption are rampant.

Note how even the Muslims have been objecting to the their governments lately.

Be careful Sister Amy, A religion should infuse the culture to the point that its laws, history, and even customs reflect its spirit. If you were able to pull the backbone of Christianity out of western society I dare say that you wouldn’t want to live here. It would be too barbaric. With all its corruption, hypocrisy, and past exploitation, this Christian tainted culture offers the human spirit more options for growth than does Islamic culture. If Islam is truely the better faith for the individual to live out there earthly existance, then it should be reflected in a culture that attracts all men to want to live there. Don’t get me wrong for I am quite aware that this country will possibly fall due to its flaws. However, since we live in a post Christian setting, our fall will not be due to the Christian component which is being ignored. Please remember that Christians hold the view that Jesus is God and therefore knows God intimately. As a result, what Jesus tried to do was to show mankind that the essence of God is LOVE. If this love can ignite the dry bones of a culture, then the ash becomes the fertilizer that changes a society in fruitful ways.
 
😃

if i had nothing but time on my hands i’d animate the conversations around here! har.
 
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