An Honest Question for Any Honest Muslim

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Mort_Alz

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I’ve found a lot of Muslims encourage Christians to convert to Islam and I think there are references in the Muslim holy book of Christians being converted.

However, how is that remotely possible if Christians have already committed (in Muslim eyes) the unpardonable sin of attributing divinity to one of Allah’s creations?

thanks in advance
 
This is not a difficult question to answer and so even a less than honest sinful Muslim would be able to answer it… and so here goes:

Big-time major sinners too can enter Paradise but on condition that they first sincerely repent their sins and wrongdoings as can be seen from numerous verses from the Qur’an, among them are these two examples:

“Allah loves those who turn unto Him in repentance and loves those who purify themselves”… [al-Baqarah 2:222]

“Say: O ‘Ibaadi (My slaves) who have transgressed against themselves (by committing evil deeds and sins)! Despair not of the Mercy of Allah, verily, Allah forgives all sins. Truly, He is Oft‑Forgiving, Most Merciful”… [al-Zumar 39:53]

Those who sincerely repent all of their wrongdoings should never despair that their Creator will not grant them relief when they come back to Him, no matter how far astray they might have gone.

And BTW, there is no unpardonable sin in Islam provided that the sinner sincerely repents before he or she dies.
 
Mort_Alz said:
I’ve found a lot of Muslims encourage Christians to convert to Islam and I think there are references in the Muslim holy book of Christians being converted.

However, how is that remotely possible if Christians have already committed (in Muslim eyes) the unpardonable sin of attributing divinity to one of Allah’s creations?

thanks in advance
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The Quraysh of Makkah were worse in committing sins than Christians. But the point of Islam is that once you find guidance, you leave the sins behind you, and ask forgiveness. And if someone sincerely embraces Islam, then all their previous sins are forgiven.

It’s a misunderstanding that شرك shirk is “unpardonable.” God forgives all sins if we repent of them before we die. The problem is for the people who die on their sins–but even all the rest, God might forgive them, except for shirk. If they died doing that, then there’s no forgiveness for them.
 
Sister_Amy said:
The Quraysh of Makkah were worse in committing sins than Christians. But the point of Islam is that once you find guidance, you leave the sins behind you, and ask forgiveness. And if someone sincerely embraces Islam, then all their previous sins are forgiven.

It’s a misunderstanding that شرك shirk is “unpardonable.” God forgives all sins if we repent of them before we die. The problem is for the people who die on their sins–but even all the rest, God might forgive them, except for shirk. If they died doing that, then there’s no forgiveness for them.
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So what happens to them?

You know what I don’t understand, whats the 70 Virgins for? What could they possibly do for you in Heaven? Do “you” get 70 male virgins? I can’t grasp it, it might be like the pet-rock, I think to hard about things and miss the obvious sometimes:shrug:
 
GaryTaylor said:
So what happens to them?

You know what I don’t understand, whats the 70 Virgins for? What could they possibly do for you in Heaven? Do “you” get 70 male virgins? I can’t grasp it, it might be like the pet-rock, I think to hard about things and miss the obvious sometimes:shrug:
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Find me the ayah in the Qur’an that says “70 virgins” and we’ll have this conversation.

(Hint, there’s no such ayah.)

Thought experiment:
Imagine sitting a bunch of teenage boys in a room and asking them what they really really want. Imagine their answer.

Imagine the same about a group of teenage girls, and try to imagine their answer to the same question.
 
Sister_Amy said:
Find me the ayah in the Qur’an that says “70 virgins” and we’ll have this conversation.

(Hint, there’s no such ayah.)

Thought experiment:
Imagine sitting a bunch of teenage boys in a room and asking them what they really really want. Imagine their answer.

Imagine the same about a group of teenage girls, and try to imagine their answer to the same question.
Click to expand...
That makes the most sense. So its just perpetuated nonsense than. I hear you.
 
hamba2han said:
This is not a difficult question to answer and so even a less than honest sinful Muslim would be able to answer it… and so here goes:

Big-time major sinners too can enter Paradise but on condition that they first sincerely repent their sins and wrongdoings as can be seen from numerous verses from the Qur’an, among them are these two examples:

“Allah loves those who turn unto Him in repentance and loves those who purify themselves”… [al-Baqarah 2:222]

“Say: O ‘Ibaadi (My slaves) who have transgressed against themselves (by committing evil deeds and sins)! Despair not of the Mercy of Allah, verily, Allah forgives all sins. Truly, He is Oft‑Forgiving, Most Merciful”… [al-Zumar 39:53]

Those who sincerely repent all of their wrongdoings should never despair that their Creator will not grant them relief when they come back to Him, no matter how far astray they might have gone.

And BTW, there is no unpardonable sin in Islam provided that the sinner sincerely repents before he or she dies.
Click to expand...
Do I need to renounce Christianity before I can be granted relieif…?
 
Sister_Amy said:
Find me the ayah in the Qur’an that says “70 virgins” and we’ll have this conversation.

(Hint, there’s no such ayah.)

Thought experiment:
Imagine sitting a bunch of teenage boys in a room and asking them what they really really want. Imagine their answer.

Imagine the same about a group of teenage girls, and try to imagine their answer to the same question.
Click to expand...
What about gay Muslim adults… Do they get 70 other gay virgin adults…?
 
hamba2han said:
This is not a difficult question to answer and so even a less than honest sinful Muslim would be able to answer it… and so here goes:

Big-time major sinners too can enter Paradise but on condition that they first sincerely repent their sins and wrongdoings as can be seen from numerous verses from the Qur’an, among them are these two examples:

“Allah loves those who turn unto Him in repentance and loves those who purify themselves”… [al-Baqarah 2:222]

“Say: O ‘Ibaadi (My slaves) who have transgressed against themselves (by committing evil deeds and sins)! Despair not of the Mercy of Allah, verily, Allah forgives all sins. Truly, He is Oft‑Forgiving, Most Merciful”… [al-Zumar 39:53]

Those who sincerely repent all of their wrongdoings should never despair that their Creator will not grant them relief when they come back to Him, no matter how far astray they might have gone.

And BTW, there is no unpardonable sin in Islam provided that the sinner sincerely repents before he or she dies.
Click to expand...
so if this is true, then how come islam will allow islamic men to kill an adulteror? what if that person truly repented of their wrongdoing?
 
Sister_Amy said:
Find me the ayah in the Qur’an that says “70 virgins” and we’ll have this conversation.

(Hint, there’s no such ayah.)

Thought experiment:
Imagine sitting a bunch of teenage boys in a room and asking them what they really really want. Imagine their answer.

Imagine the same about a group of teenage girls, and try to imagine their answer to the same question.
Click to expand...
hi sister amy.

long time no talk! hope you’ve been well.

this is just one hadith where i suppose people get the idea from:

Al-Tirmidhi Hadith 2687

The Prophet Muhammad was heard saying: 'The smallest reward for the people of paradise is an abode where there are 80,000 servants and 72 wives, over which stands a dome decorated with pearls, aquamarine, and ruby, as wide as the distance from Al-Jabiyyah to Sana’a."

then there is this one:
Code: 
* Al-Hasan Al-Basri says that an old woman came to the messenger of Allah and made a request, O’ Messenger of Allah make Dua that Allah grants me entrance into Jannah. The messenger of Allah replied, O’ Mother, an old woman cannot enter Jannah. That woman started crying and began to leave. The messenger of Allah said, Say to the woman that one will not enter in a state of old age, but Allah will make all the women of Jannah young virgins. Allah Ta’aala says, Lo! We have created them a (new) creation and made them virgins, lovers, equal in age. (Surah Waaqi’ah, 35-37).[48]
so when reading the two it would be easy to see how someone could assume they meant the wives in paradise would be virgins.

peace,
jen
 
Thank you for your answers, they were most helpful. 🙂

Just one more: I know that Jesus is one of the late prophets in Islam. I’ve also heard that Islam states that Jesus didn’t actually die, he was never crucified, just ascended into heaven.

How can this be, when even atheist/secular historians (aka historians with no theological agenda) assert that Jesus of Nazareth (or the “historical Jesus”) was indeed crucified and died under Pontius Pilate? Aren’t there even extra-Scriptural references to his death?

Pilate was a real person so they had records of Jesus’ death?

Can you explain? This is no objection, just a question.
 
Sister_Amy said:
The Quraysh of Makkah were worse in committing sins than Christians. But the point of Islam is that once you find guidance, you leave the sins behind you, and ask forgiveness. And if someone sincerely embraces Islam, then all their previous sins are forgiven.

It’s a misunderstanding that شرك shirk is “unpardonable.” God forgives all sins if we repent of them before we die. The problem is for the people who die on their sins–but even all the rest, God might forgive them, except for shirk. If they died doing that, then there’s no forgiveness for them.
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I see 👍

it has a few similarities with the unpardonable sin in Christianity of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. If someone has repented, then they had not committed it.

Also, talk of God being forgiving and merciful in Islam is a very similar theme to that of Christianity and even Judaism, but both Judaism and Christianity have atonements for evil, some way to pay the price. In Judaism it was regular animal sacrifice, in Christianity, it was Jesus. What does Islam profess atones for humankind’s sins?
 
Mort_Alz said:
Thank you for your answers, they were most helpful. 🙂

Just one more: I know that Jesus is one of the late prophets in Islam. I’ve also heard that Islam states that Jesus didn’t actually die, he was never crucified, just ascended into heaven.

How can this be, when even atheist/secular historians (aka historians with no theological agenda) assert that Jesus of Nazareth (or the “historical Jesus”) was indeed crucified and died under Pontius Pilate? Aren’t there even extra-Scriptural references to his death?

Pilate was a real person so they had records of Jesus’ death?

Can you explain? This is no objection, just a question.
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I’m not certain, but I think I heard that the relevant records of both the Sanhedrin and of Pilate have been lost, so reports of Jesus’ death rely on later written accounts.
 
TEPO said:
Do I need to renounce Christianity before I can be granted relieif…?
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It is best that the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) himself answer the question asked.

"By the One in whose hand my soul is, no Jew or Christian of this community hears about me - {that is from the community of people from the time of the Prophet (peace be upon him) until the Day of Judgment} - and then does not follow me - or he said does not believe in what I brought - except that he is from the inhabitants of the Hell-fire." [Saheeh Muslim]
 
jen_fla said:
so if this is true, then how come islam will allow islamic men to kill an adulteror? what if that person truly repented of their wrongdoing?
Click to expand...
Only people who live in places which institute and implement these laws will be subjected to such punishment.

Adulterers who live in places where there are no such laws being implemented are safe from the punishments prescribed in Islam… at least in this life.
 
Oh yeah, I forgot about the question:

"what if that person truly repented of their wrongdoing?"

Punishment also serves as a deterrence and so the punishment has to be carried out for the good of society.

As for the individual sinners who sincerely repent their sins, then the good news for them is that the Lord may well accept their repentance on the Day of Judgment and admit them into Paradise .

Worldly punishment in Islam is not the be all and end all and so there is hardly any need to raise a hue and cry about certain aspects of Sharia law which some might find objectionable.
 
If one is allowed to repent, why would muslims judge to one’s sin? Why a sinner be stoned to death? Where is the “no matter what your sin is” doctrine? I think that overtime Muslims want to correct Islamic teachings, and the abrogations are enormously made already to the Quran. A well informed Christian will never get converted. There is a huge difference with Quran and the Holy Bible. Not even close.
 
hamba2han said:
Only people who live in places which institute and implement these laws will be subjected to such punishment.

Adulterers who live in places where there are no such laws being implemented are safe from the punishments prescribed in Islam… at least in this life.
Click to expand...
So those who don’t want to subcribe to the Book of Islam must either leave your country, convert to Islam or be subjected to Islams law period? Right?
 
Mort_Alz said:
Thank you for your answers, they were most helpful. 🙂

Just one more: I know that Jesus is one of the late prophets in Islam. I’ve also heard that Islam states that Jesus didn’t actually die, he was never crucified, just ascended into heaven.

How can this be, when even atheist/secular historians (aka historians with no theological agenda) assert that Jesus of Nazareth (or the “historical Jesus”) was indeed crucified and died under Pontius Pilate? Aren’t there even extra-Scriptural references to his death?

Pilate was a real person so they had records of Jesus’ death?

Can you explain? This is no objection, just a question.
Click to expand...
Do you mean Josephus?
 
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