An honest question

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mango_2003

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This might be a tired and/or juvenile question, but seeing as I’m tired and/or a juvenile, I figure I’ll give it a go.

My question is…why? Why does it matter if one is Catholic or not??? I have found the following necessary for salvation through my own reading of the Bible. It seems to me that it’s all very simple.

Romans 10:9 (KJV) That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Maybe I’m wrong in saying so…but it seems pretty clear what’s necessary.
 
Is that really all you have to do? after all, “Even the demons believe-and tremble” James 2:19
 
Well, I suppose the simple answer would be that if you truly believe in Jesus and what he did for us…you would also believe what he says. The Bible is clear about several things, such as:

-He started a Church (the pillar and fountain of truth) and promised that the gates of hell would not overcome it
-He instituted the Sacraments
-He ordained Peter the head of his Church (the first pope)
-He ordained his Apostles and gave them the power to bind or loose sins (Confession and Penance)

The early church was clearly Catholic and not Protestant. If you want the most biblically and historically accurate church, it’s Catholic.
 
Adam D:
Is that really all you have to do? after all, “Even the demons believe-and tremble” James 2:19
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I would think demons would be a different case, being fallen angels and all.

Also…this doesn’t really address the scripture in question. It says (my paraphrase) "Believe and confess orally that Christ is your Lord and your God…and that He was raised from the dead, and you shall be saved.

If this isn’t true, do we have a contradiction? Or perhaps I’m missing something?

~mango~
 
Hi Mango_2003 (btw, what’s the name mean?)
It’s not a tired or juvenile qiestion by any means. It certainly has been discussed a whole lot! And by apologists who are much more qualified to defend the Catholic faith than I (and I’m counting on them to give you your substantial responses). My question though is pertinent enough. The author of the letter to James is responding directly to misunderstandings of Paul’s letter to the Romans. Which is why James also says things like you are not justified by faith alone etc.

Reading Romans 10:9 in context I think we see that Paul is not telling the people in Rome that the very last thing they have to do to get to heaven is to have faith in Jesus. The purpose of the whole passage in its broader context is to convince his readers that adhering to the law of Moses, and believing that such adherence is the way to heaven, is untrue. He’s showing how salvation has been opened up to non-Jews as well as the Jews. Salvation is now based on faith. But it doesn’t follow that the only thing you have to do is have faith in Jesus, especially when the book of James, which is directly addressing this subject (whereas Paul is talking about a contrast between old and new covenants) clearly contradicts the idea of being saved simply by professing our faith.

Maybe that’s useful. And I hope you’ll now allow me to turn this thread over to those wiser than I.
 
Thanks…I appreciate your (name removed by moderator)ut. To be quite honest, it’s doesn’t clear things up altogether, but its is some good insight nevertheless.

As for my name…lol. It’s from Saturday Night Live. I’m a huge Chris Kattan fan, and I love the “Mango skits”. I came up with this name in 7th grade for Yahoo! Messenger, and have used it ever since for everything I do online. It’s just easier that way. 🙂

~mango~
 
Good question. Look at Matthew 7:21. “Not everyone who says to me ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.” So, a confession of faith is not enough. You may say “I do the will of God,” and I am sure you do. But look at 1 Timothy 3:15 “if I am delayed, you may know how one ought to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and bulwark of the truth.” So now, we must think of the Church as needed to retain and teach the Truth. If this is true (and it is in Scripture), then part of God’s will must be for us to be in a church, the pillar and bulwark of truth. There are many, many other verses about the importance of the church. Depending on the specific question, I can tell you more.

Ok, so we see that we need not only to confess but to also know that the Church holds the truth. Which church? There is where this gets long. By our faith, the church should be One (unified in Faith and belief), Holy (founded by Christ, reflecting God), apostolic (tracing its roots back to the first Christians), and Universal (present in all lands, all ages (Catholic)). So, the church must teach the faith of Christianity. The church must hold to the teachings of Christ in the Bible. The chruch must be able to trace its foundings back to Jesus himself, otherwise it is not his church. Finally, the church should be a reflection of all Truth, not some, stable in teaching though the years to all people. There is only one that satisfies these: the Catholic Church.

This is a very simple statement. I can expound if asked. If one knows that the Catholic Church represents the fullness of truth as set forth by Jesus, the question is not why the church, but how can it not be.
 
What exactly does it mean to “confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead”? Is it something we can just do during a TV commercial, or does it go deeper? If it goes deeper, then what more is involved? In particular, is there an element of disbelief or rejection of Christ when one who knows of the Catholic Church nevertheless rejects it? By the same token, is there an element of disbelief or rejection of Christ when a Catholic who knows Catholic teaching nevertheless rejects it?
 
"Romans 10:9 (KJV) That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Maybe I’m wrong in saying so…but it seems pretty clear what’s necessary."

It’s a great question and seems clear when left there.

But the bible also says to “work out your salvation with fear and trembling.” (Phil. 2:12)

In Matthew 25, Jesus separated the sheep from the goats. The sheep inherited the kingdom. How? They gave food, water, and shelter…“inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, you have done it unto me.” (Matt 25:40)

It is not “faith alone” that we are saved but “faith which worketh in love.” (Gal 5:6)

God Bless
 
Britta said:
"Romans 10:9 (KJV)
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Maybe I’m wrong in saying so…but it seems pretty clear what’s necessary."

It’s a great question and seems clear when left there.

But the bible also says to “work out your salvation with fear and trembling.” (Phil. 2:12)

In Matthew 25, Jesus separated the sheep from the goats. The sheep inherited the kingdom. How? They gave food, water, and shelter…“inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, you have done it unto me.” (Matt 25:40)

It is not “faith alone” that we are saved but “faith which worketh in love.” (Gal 5:6)

God Bless
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Hola!

Thanks for the reply. Phil. 2:12 is completely correct…we are to continually work out our salvation…meaning the fruits of our salvations should be seen in our everyday lives. Phil. 2:12 seems to say “you have your salvation…now don’t get haughty. Live humbly and let your fruits be known”.

I realize that faith without works is dead. This is obvious, as stated in scripture. But, I also believe that works are the fruit of such faith. The works don’t come first…the faith does.

~mango~
 
Romans 10:9 (KJV) That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
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The problem with this at face value is that it isn’t necessary to believe in the Trinity or that Christ is God.
 
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SPH1:
The problem with this at face value is that it isn’t necessary to believe in the Trinity or that Christ is God.
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I would disagree. It says that Jesus is Lord. Elsewhere in the Bible, God is called Lord. The Trinity is implied in this verse.

This was one verse that really hung me up back in my non-Trinitarian days.

~mango~
 
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mango_2003:
I would disagree. It says that Jesus is Lord. Elsewhere in the Bible, God is called Lord. The Trinity is implied in this verse.

This was one verse that really hung me up back in my non-Trinitarian days.

~mango~
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I find that interesting because my aunt does not believe in the Trinity, she does not see that it is implied. Yet, she believes in Jesus as our Savior. I am not sure I follow her logic. Maybe you can enlighten me?
 
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Britta:
I find that interesting because my aunt does not believe in the Trinity, she does not see that it is implied. Yet, she believes in Jesus as our Savior. I am not sure I follow her logic. Maybe you can enlighten me?
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I might be able to do so. It depends…what denom. is she??? I come from a neo-arian background, so my former views on it are very skewed.

~mango~
 
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mango_2003:
I might be able to do so. It depends…what denom. is she??? I come from a neo-arian background, so my former views on it are very skewed.

~mango~
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She’s Jehovah’s Witness.
 
The relationship between Grace, Faith and Works fascinates me. We are saved by Grace, most Christians would agree with that. After God’s grace is poured out to us, God asks something of us in return; namely Faith and Works. God does not require either our Faith or our good deeds for salvation (his grace is freely given), but the Bible is clear that he expects both.

Just confessing that Christ is Lord satisfies neither of these desires from God. The Bible notes that even the devil believes in God (and trembles), and we have it on very good authority that his residence is not currently located within the Pearly Gates! 😉

The Bible also notes that not everyone who simply cries out Lord will enter Heaven. Again, this would seem to preclude a simple confession of Christ’s divinity as the only requirement for salvation. And I’m not even touching upon the obviously sacramental nature of Baptism, the importance of which is also attested to in the Bible.

I’m comfortable accepting the Church’s position on salvation and how it is attained, but it seems to be that even a person who relied soley on the books of the Bible would have no trouble reaching the same conclusions as the Church.
 
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Britta:
She’s Jehovah’s Witness.
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OK…IC. Well, the church (I use the term loosely) that is in my past was somewhat similiar.

I, in the past, believe that Jesus was Lord…in the sense that He is above us…much like the lordship status back in the medieval cultures. To say that Jesus was God was blasphemy, because you are lowering the glory of God by equating Him with a man.

That passage messed me up only when used in a combination argument of passages in the Bible against my Arianism. It was only a matter of time before I gave up. I’ve learned a lot about the Trinity because of the whole ordeal.

Hope that helps…lemme know if you need more.

~mango~
 
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