An interesting remark

[Fone_Bone_2001]

The first post on this thread was written by Serious who is on the A-team.

Instead of ignoring his dumb quotation, which he probably wrote himself,
Catholics have been fooled into discussing it.

The A-team is having a big laugh over this one.

I’m disappointed. :crying:

He should have been told to shut up and go look at the Catholics who have performed heroically to serve their God and fellow man.

There is the possibility that he was sincere, in which case the underlying attitude needed to be addressed precisely so that it could be rectified. Telling him to “shut up” might only harden his heart in that judgmental perspective.

 

[empther]

There is the possibility that he was sincere

Forget it.

He’s constantly in the A-team corner and never gives us any slack.

 

[Fone_Bone_2001]

Forget it.

He’s constantly in the A-team corner and never gives us any slack.

What is “the A-team corner” in the context of this forum?

Perhaps I’m wrong, because I have no idea what you’re talking about.

 

[Robertanthony]

I read the following little rant, and started to wonder…
Quote:
Many (perhaps even most) Catholics are heretics and functional apostates. They want to have contraceptive sex with their live-in girlfriends. They want to receive communion unworthily the two masses a year they actually attend. They want to drop $3 in the offertory basket and then criticize churches for not doing more to help the poor. Most Catholics, frankly, suck.

What is your opinion about it? Agree? Disagree?

A gross exageration. In many, many cases it’s not even 3$. The rest couldn’t be any truer. BUT Jesus said he came for the sick, I don’t expect to see many people vibrant with health and vitality when I go to a hospital. People aren’t part of the Church to boast of their holiness, moral perfection, they go to Church seeking God’s help/grace(s), in many cases because they sorely/desperately need it/them.

 

[Robertanthony]

What is “the A-team corner” in the context of this forum?

Perhaps I’m wrong, because I have no idea what you’re talking about.

A=atheist/agnostic, perhaps a nasty word that’d get me banned if I were to write it…

 

[Exsilivm]

The thing that really grinds my gears is the thinking that most (people in general) have that…“Hey you used to drink/smoke pot/have sex/ etc…and now you are all ‘holy’…well you are a hypocrite!!”

But such people do not know what hypocrisy is. Hypocrisy is saying one thing, and doing another. Like the Jews of old who went to the temple, but secretly worshipped pagan gods, against whom Isaiah preached.

Hypocrisy is also not trying and failing. The Red Sox are not hypocrites if they lose to the Yankees.

The people who critisize Christians who fail, or who have a past, are simply “making excuses for sin,” as the psalm says. They do all manner of horrid things, and say “but at least I’m honest about it.” Under their reasoning, every robber is a hero, because he’s being perfectly frank as he points the gun and says “your money or your life.”

 

[Robertanthony]

But such people do not know what hypocrisy is. Hypocrisy is saying one thing, and doing another. Like the Jews of old who went to the temple, but secretly worshipped pagan gods, against whom Isaiah preached.

Hypocrisy is also not trying and failing. The Red Sox are not hypocrites if they lose to the Yankees.

The people who critisize Christians who fail, or who have a past, are simply “making excuses for sin,” as the psalm says. They do all manner of horrid things, and say “but at least I’m honest about it.” Under their reasoning, every robber is a hero, because he’s being perfectly frank as he points the gun and says “your money or your life.”

Excellent point. I once heard a 7-day Adventist pastor relate the story of a man who was leaving his wife for another woman, and who felt relieved after he’d told her because “At least, he’d been honest and not secretive etc.” There’s a rationalization for you.

 

[empther]

What is “the A-team corner” in the context of this forum?

Perhaps I’m wrong, because I have no idea what you’re talking about.

The A-team is the atheists, agnostics, and unbelievers who constanstly throw doubt into the machinery of our faith.

I checked out Serious’s profile and list of posts. Here’s a part of the first post I read:

You are completely mistaken in your conclusion. I try to behave as I imagine The True God would behave. I have this “weird” idea that God should be decent, loving, helpful, kind, just, etc… ] There is nothing especially “me” about it. And I try to live up to those standards. Sometimes I fail, for sure, but I try.

As I look around me I see no sign that the “Christain-God” or the “Catholic-God” (if exists) is even remotely similar to this ideal. Yet, I accept the very slim and remote possibility that all the signs are misleading, and God is really a nice, good, loving being, even if all the signs point in the other direction. ] If that would be the case, in other words, if a sufficient explanation would be forthcoming, then I would indeed be inclined to worship God (though I have no idea why the creator of the universe would want to be “worshipped” - it is such dumb, anthropomorphic concept). ]

That’s A-team!

 

[mgoforth]

The first post on this thread was written by Serious who is on the A-team.

Instead of ignoring his dumb quotation, which he probably wrote himself,
Catholics have been fooled into discussing it.

The A-team is having a big laugh over this one.

I’m disappointed. :crying:

He should have been told to shut up and go look at the Catholics who have performed heroically to serve their God and fellow man.

I’m sorry…why is this a dumb question? Should we not care about our fellow Catholics and the potential damnation of their souls? I’m disappointed by your response, and the attitudes that seems to have a large following on these boards - namely, “everyone should mind his/her own business” and “only speak positively about Catholics, the Church, etc”.

1. 
   *]Pointing out sin when you see it is NOT the same as judging someone.
   *]Encouraging your neighbors is NOT the same as judging them.
   *]Minding your own business while your neighbors are living in sin is WRONG and thoroughly ANTI-CHRISTIAN.
   *]The only one having a big laugh when someone, who points out the overwhelming prevalence of sin, is told to “shut up” is SATAN.
   *]Our Church, at least in the U.S. where I am, is in SERIOUS trouble. Something needs to be done.
   
   Yes, I think the quote is generally correct. It’s worded a bit uncharitably, but the gist of it is true. Look to the words of our Lord and of His saints for verification on this:
   On the fewness of the saved
   
   Preparing to be told to “shut up” in 3…2…1… :knight1::nunchuk:

 

[Fone_Bone_2001]

The A-team is the atheists, agnostics, and unbelievers who constanstly throw doubt into the machinery of our faith.

A=atheist/agnostic, perhaps a nasty word that’d get me banned if I were to write it…

Ah, I see. Thanks.

Still, I feel the OP’s comment merited being addressed, precisely because it expresses such a self-righteous and spiritually problematic attitude. He needs to know that that’s not a Christian approach.

But such people do not know what hypocrisy is. Hypocrisy is saying one thing, and doing another. Like the Jews of old who went to the temple, but secretly worshipped pagan gods, against whom Isaiah preached.

Hypocrisy is also not trying and failing. The Red Sox are not hypocrites if they lose to the Yankees.

The people who critisize Christians who fail, or who have a past, are simply “making excuses for sin,” as the psalm says. They do all manner of horrid things, and say “but at least I’m honest about it.” Under their reasoning, every robber is a hero, because he’s being perfectly frank as he points the gun and says “your money or your life.”

Well said.

Should we not care about our fellow Catholics and the potential damnation of their souls?

Yes. That’s not the problem with the quote.

Pointing out sin when you see it is NOT the same as judging someone.

True.

But there’s a difference between, “What you’re doing is wrong, and I’m calling you out on it for the good of your own soul. Please get yourself back on a good moral and spiritual path,” and “Most Catholics suck.”

The latter attitude conveys the kind of bitterness and discouragement that comes from focusing too much on others’ sanctity or lack thereof. Our eyes should be on Christ, not on others’ imperfections.

Encouraging your neighbors is NOT the same as judging them.

True.

But telling other Catholics that they “suck” is not encouragement.

Minding your own business while your neighbors are living in sin is WRONG and thoroughly ANTI-CHRISTIAN.

True.

But so is nurturing feelings of discouragement due to the fact that your neighbor doesn’t live up the standard of holiness that you yourself likely fail to live up to.

The only one having a big laugh when someone, who points out the overwhelming prevalence of sin, is told to “shut up” is SATAN.

True.

But he is probably even more pleased when we become like the Pharisee in our Lord’s parable of the Pharisee and the Publican.

 

[empther]

I’m sorry…why is this a dumb question? Should we not care about our fellow Catholics and the potential damnation of their souls? I’m disappointed by your response, and the attitudes that seems to have a large following on these boards - namely, “everyone should mind his/her own business” and "only speak positively about Catholics, the Church, etc".

But it’s ok to only speak negatively about Catholics?

You ever watch those news talk shows? Do you see what the talk show host does?
No matter what the person being interviewed says, the host interrupts him with devil’s advocate counterpoints that may keep the ratings up but causes the interviewee’s points to be lost and forgotten. It amazes me that people even bother to go on these shows and be interviewed.

That’s what you’re doing.

 

[mgoforth]

Ah, I see. Thanks.

Still, I feel the OP’s comment merited being addressed, precisely because it expresses such a self-righteous and spiritually problematic attitude. He needs to know that that’s not a Christian approach.

Well said.

Yes. That’s not the problem with the quote.

True.

But there’s a difference between, “What you’re doing is wrong, and I’m calling you out on it for the good of your own soul. Please get yourself back on a good moral and spiritual path,” and “Most Catholics suck.”

The latter attitude conveys the kind of bitterness and discouragement that comes from focusing too much on others’ sanctity or lack thereof. Our eyes should be on Christ, not on others’ imperfections.

True.

But telling other Catholics that they “suck” is not encouragement.

True.

But so is nurturing feelings of discouragement due to the fact that your neighbor doesn’t live up the standard of holiness that you yourself likely fail to live up to.

True.

But he is probably even more pleased when we become like the Pharisee in our Lord’s parable of the Pharisee and the Publican.

All correct. Did I not say “It’s worded a bit uncharitably, but the gist of it is true.”? I don’t agree with the wording of the quote itself, but the idea underlying it is 100% accurate in general. Most Catholics, and humans in general, are living sinful lives. A majority of Catholics who engage in sexual intercourse (even inside valid marriages) use artificial birth control. A majority of Catholics don’t go to Confession.

I’m not comparing myself favorably to them at all. I’ve done those things and far worse. It doesn’t change the fact that sin is sin.

“Nurturing feelings of discouragement”…in as much charity as I can muster, let me say that’s pretty emblematic of our culture of easily hurt feelings. I’m less disturbed by the possibility of hurting a few feelings than by the thought of the majority of souls falling into Hell. I pray all the time that I won’t be one of them…because every day of my life I’m in danger of exactly that same fate.

 

[mgoforth]

But it’s ok to only speak negatively about Catholics?

You ever watch those news talk shows? Do you see what the talk show host does?
No matter what the person being interviewed says, the host interrupts him with devil’s advocate counterpoints that may keep the ratings up but causes the interviewee’s points to be lost and forgotten. It amazes me that people even bother to go on these shows and be interviewed.

That’s what you’re doing.

Is it? Really? Do I need to balance each and every post I make with equal parts positive and negative comments?

Do you ever see those news shows where the host agrees with everything the guest says? They’re boring.

What’s your point again, so that it’s not lost and forgotten? You said that the OP is an atheist, and therefore we should tell him to shut up and focus on all the good Catholics out there. I humbly disagree. We should realize that it’s far easier for any of us to damn ourselves for eternity than to be saved. We should “work out our own salvation with fear and trembling”, then encourage everyone we meet to work out their own salvation, also with fear and trembling.

Where does that healthy dose of fear come from if warm and fuzzy attitudes are all that’s allowed?

 

[empther]

What’s your point again, so that it’s not lost and forgotten? You said that the OP is an atheist, and therefore we should tell him to shut up and focus on all the good Catholics out there.

I didn’t say that.

You’re playing the ratings chasing talk show host again.

You ever watch Questions to the Prime Minister on C-SPAN ?
A member of the House of Commons stands up and asks a question. The Prime Minister then stands up and replies. He speaks as long as he wants. No interruptions.
Eventually, the viewing audience gets both sides of the issues for their consideration.

That’s good television, and while I don’t know all the issues going on in England, I find the process fascinating and informative.

---

Do you ever see those news shows where the host agrees with everything the guest says? They’re boring.

No, I’ve never seen a show like that, ( where are they? ) but if the person being interviewed has something to say, what’s wrong with the host agreeing?

 

[Serious]

There is the possibility that he was sincere, in which case the underlying attitude needed to be addressed precisely so that it could be rectified.

Of course the quote was verbatim. I did not include the name of the poster, because it is irrelevant. And no, it was not an atheist who wrote it. It was die-hard conservative catholic.

 

[PatriceA]

Why? So we can be duped into the neo-Pentacostal movement of half converts and non-Catholics to spew indefinable words and write it off as “tongues”? I’m sure Montanists, Jansenists, “French Prophets”, Ranters, wackos of Azusa Street, etc. would all feel at home at a Charistmatic Mass. The faithful will stand with a Mass that aims for detahcment and complete worship and not for interest and tingling feelings. Might want to research the history of this movement before acting as their billboard.

OP: Agreed.

There are many members here at CAF, good faithful Catholics, that attend Charismatic Masses.

 

[PatriceA]

Of course the quote was verbatim. I did not include the name of the poster, because it is irrelevant. And no, it was not an atheist who wrote it. It was die-hard conservative catholic.

I don’t think its irrelevant. I also think its unethical to quote something another member of CAF wrote in another post without any information. You should at least refer to what thread you found this quote from so that others can see what was being discussed.

 

[sw85]

Of course the quote was verbatim. I did not include the name of the poster, because it is irrelevant. And no, it was not an atheist who wrote it. It was die-hard conservative catholic.

It was me who wrote it, actually. The quote is accurate. (Minor correction, I’m not yet a Catholic – I’m still in RCIA – and I identify as reactionary, not conservative).

Some context would help here. I can’t remember the exact thread but the discussion pertained to the formal establishment of Catholicism. I argued in favor of it. Someone suggested that this would be a bad thing because not even the majority of Catholics would support it. My response, quoted in part in the OP, was intended to point out that if we went by what the majority of Catholics supported, we would basically be Protestants.

 

[Exsilivm]

Excellent point. I once heard a 7-day Adventist pastor relate the story of a man who was leaving his wife for another woman, and who felt relieved after he’d told her because “At least, he’d been honest and not secretive etc.” There’s a rationalization for you.

That is a perfect example.

 

[TS_Aquinas]

There are many members here at CAF, good faithful Catholics, that attend Charismatic Masses.

And 75% of Catholics don’t attend Mass. Most Catholics believed in the Arian heresy before St. Athanasius combated it and the Church condemned it. What’s the point in quantity? I wonder how many ‘faithful’ Isrealites went to temple of Ba’al that Solomon built before it being torn down.