An Observation

[Dancelittleewok]

If it were for the Catholic Church the Bible wouldn’t be public. It is because of the Protestants that the Bible is public. In the dark ages, the Catholic Church strictly forbid public reading of the Bible. But then, protestants came and tried (and succeeded) in making it public.

He gave His Word for the whole world. Whoever believed His Word became part of His Church. So the promise was for all the Church, not just the apostles. But only those that listened to His Word received Him (the Holy Spirit). The Holy Spirit is with and works through every member of the Church. Everyone who listens to God’s commandment is part of the Church.

All this is milk. If you can’t eat milk how are you going to eat solid food?

Your sources please for this spurious claim.

Q: Why doesn’t the Catholic Church emphasize reading the Bible?
A:
Yours is a common misconception. Catholics meditate on Scripture at every Mass. The readings and responsorial Psalm during the Liturgy of the Word are taken directly from the Bible.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church states:
The Church forcefully and specifically exhorts all the Christian faithful . . . to learn the surpassing knowledge of Jesus Christ, by frequent reading of the divine Scriptures. Ignorance of the Scriptures is ignorance of Christ. (CCC 133) The Church even grants indulgences for reading the Bible. The Handbook of Indulgences explains, “A partial indulgence is granted the Christian faithful who read Sacred Scripture with the veneration due God’s word and as a form of spiritual reading. The indulgence will be a plenary one when such reading is for at least one-half hour” (p. 80).

Source

 

[FrJohnB]

These are representative of the cries of the redeemed in the tribulation; which God has/is remembering.

These are the cries God has remembered while these were on earth crying out to God. Same as above.

My prayer for you is for humility before your brothers and sisters and more importantly before God. Pride is something God cannot work with and stunts ones spiritual growth.

Funny the first time the Saints that are mentioned “crying out to God” is in Chapter 6 of Revelation, then we are introduced to those in chapter 7 who came out of the Great Tribulation. I can only surmise by your post here in disagreeing with Padrej that you believe that Chapter 7 of Revelation happened before chapter 6? Are you saying the John got it wrong when he wrote this in the order he did? I don’t think so.

Funny Padrej, a protestant, quotes the Bible properly and you basically accuse him of needing pride and humility. That is a real shame, you should study your Bible more and not be so quick to stand in the place of God and pass judgment as you have just done.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

If it were for the Catholic Church the Bible wouldn’t be public. It is because of the Protestants that the Bible is public. In the dark ages, the Catholic Church strictly forbid public reading of the Bible. But then, protestants came and tried (and succeeded) in making it public.

Balderdash. Find me a reputable historian who accepts this pile of dreck, (and no, Lorraine Boettner and Alexander Hislop are not reputable historians. Hislop even recanted his work later).

Who do you think arranged for copies of the Bible to be handwritten (which took about 2 years apiece) from AD 380 until the invention of the printing press? Catholics. (You Protestants didn’t come on to the scene for another 100 years or so after the printing press.). The first printed book was the Bible. . .and the ones who asked for the printing were Catholics.

Suppose you had a rare manuscript copy of Shakespeare’s First Folio. Would you allow a bunch of 4th graders to use it for a class reading of one of the plays? Of course not. First, it’s valuable and could be easily damaged and then be no good to anybody. (Hint: Those Bibles before the printing press were equally rare and valuable. That’s why the printing press has made such a difference. Books became plentiful and cheap. It wasn’t that people ‘before’ the press didn’t want books. . in fact, they treated their books very well). So it’s kind of ridiculous to say that because few Bibles were able to even be in existence that the Church “kept them from people.” That is a lie.

Wait–there is a specific case in the 13th century in an area in France in which a group of people called Albigensians wrote their own version of the Bible (in which they advocated among other things abortion and fornication and suicide) - and **that particular false was forbidden to be read. **Not the ‘true" Bible, but the false one. Now, if some ‘historian’ made a mistake and thought that just because the Albigensians called their fake book “the Bible”, that it WAS the Bible, it would be understandable for the historian to think the Church forbade the reading of the Bible. But since it is easily proven that this was not a ‘true’ Bible, and since virtually all reputable scholars acknowledge that the charge that the Church "forbade the reading of the Bible’ is a falsehood based on either a mistake or else deliberate untruth, for people to keep bringing up this untruth speaks very poorly of their own education/ skills in research, or their church’s own probity.

Were people back then ‘uneducated in Scripture’? No! They had Scripture read to them at church–and there was plenty of church, not ‘just’ on Sundays but on feasts. They prayed the Our Father, they watched the ‘mystery plays’, they had a strong devotion and they (for their time) were as well ‘educated’ regarding Christ and Scripture as any other people including those of today who may think that being able to spout a ‘chapter and verse’ shows their familiarity with Scripture, but who never themselves bother to note the CONTEXT of what they cherry pick.

 

[FrJohnB]

First, there is a distinction in the Bible between discerning and criticizing.Why was Jesus bringing up “don’t judge”? What were the Pharisees doing? What is Jesus talking about? Jesus is speaking about is the critical, judgmental, condemning, self-righteous attitude and egotism of the Pharisees. They weren’t criticizing people on the basis of their sin. Pharisees criticized because of peoples personality, character, weaknesses, frailties, and even perhaps the way they looked or dressed or they didn’t do things the way they did them. They were criticizing their motives, reading their hearts, which they can’t see nor perceive because of their humanness. Who alone can read the hearts intention?

Secondly, what was the context of my discussion above? The poster said that praying to Mary was not worship, which is contrary to the teaching of her own Church, which I provided the link to show the poster. The question of being a good Catholic is a distinction and contrast you will find throughout CAF. I don’t define nor could I, I am not Catholic. I was not questioning if she was; I was asking in light of the contradiction post she made in light of the Catholic teaching. Was this judging or criticizing the posters intentions or just pointing out what her Church actually teaches?

The irony to all of this is that people are judging or criticizing on superficial basis. We are called to discern truth from error and confront that error if it is going to cause harm to the persons soul. If any on sees a brother sinning, then what? If he listens then what? If he doesn’t then what? Etc.

Ask yourself; looking at your posts to me; have you judged the intentions of my heart and in essence by your own words condemned me?

We all will and have done this same thing; I stand guilty before God in this regard, but not in these posts.

Interesting that you are not even knowledgeable about the meaning and synonyms of the word “judge.” If you were to look them up, being “critical” of another or even “discerning” between two falls under the realm of judgment/ judge/ judging. Now you can muddy the waters all you want with “it is all about the Scribes and Pharisees” when you know Jesus aimed his words at everyone as warning. True God alone can read intention, but you accuse in the post as you brought forth, “Is it a violation of the first or second commandments? I don’t know with certainty; do you?” Certainly you posed it in the form of a question but the question is a rhetorical one at best in light of the entire context of your post; hence you fall into the category of passing judgment as Padrej was reminding you.

Your claims that praying to Mary which is not worship runs contrary to the teachings of the Roman Catholic Church clearly shows a lack of understanding on your part of how the Catholic church feels and venerates Mary. Yet your posts are such that one would come to the conclusion that your line of “questioning” as you call it smacks of being judgmental.

Now there is a second person who agrees with the Protestant Padrej regarding your posts in this matter of them being clearly judgmental. It may do you good to heed that passage of scripture that he quoted instead of giving a verbal backlash like some spoiled brat teen would to a parent that is giving friendly advice to the teen who “knows it all.” But as you pointed out, we are all at various places in our walk, that is OK that you can be the teen that knows it all.

 

[Padrej]

Funny the first time the Saints that are mentioned “crying out to God” is in Chapter 6 of Revelation, then we are introduced to those in chapter 7 who came out of the Great Tribulation. I can only surmise by your post here in disagreeing with Padrej that you believe that Chapter 7 of Revelation happened before chapter 6? Are you saying the John got it wrong when he wrote this in the order he did? I don’t think so.

Funny Padrej, a protestant, quotes the Bible properly and you basically accuse him of needing pride and humility. That is a real shame, you should study your Bible more and not be so quick to stand in the place of God and pass judgment as you have just done.

I would LOVE to see MacDaddy try to explain Rev. 6 verses Rev. 7 as you point out.
Thank you for taking care of my light work Fr John.

 

[Padrej]

Interesting that you are not even knowledgeable about the meaning and synonyms of the word “judge.” If you were to look them up, being “critical” of another or even “discerning” between two falls under the realm of judgment/ judge/ judging. Now you can muddy the waters all you want with “it is all about the Scribes and Pharisees” when you know Jesus aimed his words at everyone as warning. True God alone can read intention, but you accuse in the post as you brought forth, “Is it a violation of the first or second commandments? I don’t know with certainty; do you?” Certainly you posed it in the form of a question but the question is a rhetorical one at best in light of the entire context of your post; hence you fall into the category of passing judgment as Padrej was reminding you.

Your claims that praying to Mary which is not worship runs contrary to the teachings of the Roman Catholic Church clearly shows a lack of understanding on your part of how the Catholic church feels and venerates Mary. Yet your posts are such that one would come to the conclusion that your line of “questioning” as you call it smacks of being judgmental.

Now there is a second person who agrees with the Protestant Padrej regarding your posts in this matter of them being clearly judgmental. It may do you good to heed that passage of scripture that he quoted instead of giving a verbal backlash like some spoiled brat teen would to a parent that is giving friendly advice to the teen who “knows it all.” But as you pointed out, we are all at various places in our walk, that is OK that you can be the teen that knows it all.

you can be the teen that knows it all
:bowdown::clapping:

 

[Fair_Lady]

Ha ha ha…
you are funny. all these promises were not made to you or to people who read the Bible. these promises were made to the Apostles and to those whom the Apostles appointed as their successors. you are really funny indeed. the Word of God was not recorded so people could read it and claim it. do you even know how the Bible was taking from the CC? perhaps when you find out you will realize that Sacred Scriptures was not really meant to be in your hands. Scriptures has no meaning to anyone outside the Church. hope you will get this some day.

i suggest to you to put the Bible down for a while and begin to beg our Lord to show you the Truth wherever that may be.

That, Wisdom Seeker, is a lie straight from the pit of hell.

 

[MacDaddy]

Oh goodness! Y’all have been busy while I was gone!

In answer to your previous question, MacDaddy, no. I am not an obedient Catholic. I am a liar, a cheat, a thief, an adulteress, and, yes, even a murderer. I am disrespectful, I have an awful temper, I am arrogant and prideful, and I have an awful tendency to open my mouth when I don’t know what I’m talking about.
But, by GOD’s grace, I am trying my upmost to change and am blessed with people who have the patience to stand me.
In truth I was offended when I first read your question, but I am no longer and I offer you my sincerest apologies. I had not read that article, but now that I have I can say that at least my original meaning was accurate, even if my words were not. As for your answers to my previous posts, I believe Mr. Carson has done a pretty good job answering for me and for that I thank him.

Pax! :tiphat:
Nicole

When I asked if you were a good Catholic? All I meant was do you follow the authority of Rome. I’m not a Catholic, so I have no idea what some would call a good Catholic except for what I have seen here in CAF and they will not mind stating if they believe you are not. So you must look at it from the perspective coming from a person who is not a Catholic.

My apologies because I seem to have hit a sensitive spot unintentionally.

I don’t see how your original meaning was accurate, since the position you took was the opposite of the text link I provided. I don’t understand why Catholics are so sensitive to having people say you worship other than God, but not without God as the end recipient. Seems it would be easier to explain, as the article did, the differences in worship. Probably shut a few people up real quick. Just a thought.

Again my apologies for the apparent poor communication on my part.
Blessings

MacD

 

[MacDaddy]

I just stumbled across this and thought some of y’all might be interested.

‘And he said, “No; but as commander of the army of the LORD I have now come.” And Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and worshipped, and said to him, “What does my lord bid his servant?”’ - Joshua 5:14

I could be wrong, but it seems to me that Joshua just started worshiping an angel. Of course, him being Joshua, I would assume that he is worshiping in much the same way that we Catholics worship the saints, not the worship and glory reserved for GOD alone.

What do y’all think???

Without looking at the context , “What does my Lord bid his servant” sticks out; looking at the context it is the pre-incarnate Christ.

 

[wisdomseeker]

If it were for the Catholic Church the Bible wouldn’t be public. It is because of the Protestants that the Bible is public. In the dark ages, the Catholic Church strictly forbid public reading of the Bible. But then, protestants came and tried (and succeeded) in making it public.

He gave His Word for the whole world. Whoever believed His Word became part of His Church. So the promise was for all the Church, not just the apostles. But only those that listened to His Word received Him (the Holy Spirit). The Holy Spirit is with and works through every member of the Church. Everyone who listens to God’s commandment is part of the Church.

All this is milk. If you can’t eat milk how are you going to eat solid food?

ha ha…again.

God didnt give the Bible to people. martin luther and his con-conspirators did. the Bible was stolen from the CC. i hardly would say that God did this.

then you jumped from having the Bible to listen. listen from whom? this is a question that you all must answer.

again i say the Bible is not a Book that people can read and Claim. the promises God made to His people Israel stays with them. through them we are invited to share in the blessings of God. it is all recorded. we have the Church that was started by the Jews and is now the New Israel and it is through her that we receive the Word of God and not from someone who took the Bible illicitly from the Church. God doesnt follow people, we follow Him. remember that. just because you got the Bible doesnt mean our Lord is following you.

put the Bible down and seek the Truth in the Church Jesus found. this is my best advice to you.

 

[wisdomseeker]

That, Wisdom Seeker, is a lie straight from the pit of hell.

**
Proverbs 12:28, “In the path of righteousness is life, but the way of error leads to death.”**

**
2Peter 3:15-17, “So also our beloved brother Paul wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, speaking of this as he does in all his letters. There are some things in them hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other scriptures.
You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, beware lest you be carried away with the error of lawless men and lose your own stability.” **

 

[Fair_Lady]

Since you have not provided any scripture to support several things you ask us to believe, you have in no way, shape, or form stated your position adequately.

You are asking me to do two contradictory things:

1. Base all my beliefs on nothing but scripture
2. Also have the beliefs you tell us which are not based on scripture

You also have a different rule for you than you do for us:

Your rule for us: What we tell you must be supported by scripture or you will not believe it
Your rule for you: What you tell us does not have to be supported by scripture but we are to believe it anyway

Quite frankly I’m shocked that you are still insisting we must support our beliefs from scripture while at the same time refusing my request to support your beliefs from scripture.

In posts 53, 61, 67, 78, and 83 you were asked to provide scripture to back up things you ask us to believe. (LittleSoldier has provided some examples in post 158.) Either provide the scripture or stop claiming everything we believe must be found in scripture. THIS IS NOW MY SIXTH REQUEST.

What scripture says about itself (the word of God) is reason enough to look to it as our final authority on matters pertaining to spirituality. Just a few are listed here, followed by my comments, to make that point:

Luke 11:28
But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it.
Comment: Where does the word of God come from? God Himself. Where do we find the word of God today? We access what God has said In scripture. There is no other infallible source of God’s word.

Romans 10:17
So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Comment: What can be more important to us than for us to gain a faith in God? I can’t think of anything. How do we come by that faith? By hearing the word of God. Where do we go to for what God has said about such matters? Scripture. There is no other infallible source of truth and we depend on it. Jesus said in Matthew 24:35, “Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.” There is no other recorded work that holds a candle to that, but scripture will last for all eternity. Words of scripture come from God Himself. There is no other book like it.

1 Thessalonians 2:13
For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.
Comment: Scripture is not the word of men, but it is the word of God. It is truth and there is no other source of infallible truth like it.

1 John 2:3-5
We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands. The man who says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But if anyone obeys his word, God’s love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did.
Comment: God’s law is written in scripture and has been given to us to teach us right from wrong. Had God left it to man to come up with a book of laws on His behalf, look out - imagination runs wild. We see that in religious systems where they don’t hold striclty to what God deems right or wrong in His sight. Suddenly there is “sin” in areas of no concern to God. The principles and laws of scripture are sufficient to guide us in all things. Above all, God’s standard is laid out clearly and precisely like no other book that man has come up with.

 

[Randy_Carson]

Ha ha ha…
you are funny. all these promises were not made to you or to people who read the Bible. these promises were made to the Apostles and to those whom the Apostles appointed as their successors. you are really funny indeed. the Word of God was not recorded so people could read it and claim it. do you even know how the Bible was taking from the CC? perhaps when you find out you will realize that Sacred Scriptures was not really meant to be in your hands. Scriptures has no meaning to anyone outside the Church. hope you will get this some day.

i suggest to you to put the Bible down for a while and begin to beg our Lord to show you the Truth wherever that may be.

Wisdomseeker-

Is it your opinion that we should or should not read the Bible in order to come to know God more fully?

Does the Church encourage us to read the Bible or not?

Thanks.

 

[MacDaddy]

Ha ha ha…
you are funny. all these promises were not made to you or to people who read the Bible. these promises were made to the Apostles and to those whom the Apostles appointed as their successors. you are really funny indeed. the Word of God was not recorded so people could read it and claim it. do you even know how the Bible was taking from the CC? perhaps when you find out you will realize that Sacred Scriptures was not really meant to be in your hands. Scriptures has no meaning to anyone outside the Church. hope you will get this some day.

i suggest to you to put the Bible down for a while and begin to beg our Lord to show you the Truth wherever that may be.

**
Well said, the blue highlighted part only! It could be rephrased like this, “The Word of God is unknown to those who are not a member of the body of Christ, a Christian.”**
**
Role of the Spirit**
John 14 16 "I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever; 17 that is the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not see Him or know Him, but you know Him because He abides with you and will be in you.

18 "I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. 19 "After a little while the world will no longer see Me, but you will see Me; because I live, you will live also. 20 "In that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you. 21 ***“He who has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me; and he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and will disclose Myself to him.” ***

Hopefully you see the broader picture here; it applies to all Christians. It does not apply to the “world”.

John 15 26 "When the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, that is the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He will testify about Me, 27 and you will testify also, because you have been with Me from the beginning.

Sound like a Christian?

2 Thessalonians 2:13
But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth.

**How can one understand what God means by what He says if they do not have the Holy Spirit reveal it to them.

You can teach a calculus class from a teacher and a text book, but there will be those who get it and those that don’t. With Scripture it is impossible to understand unless the Holy Spirit reveals the truth. This how we know that only a few are being saved.**
**
Here Jesus lays it out:**
John 17
17 "Sanctify them in the truth; Your word is truth. 18 "As You sent Me into the world, I also have sent them into the world. 19 "For their sakes I sanctify Myself, that they themselves also may be sanctified in truth.

20*** "I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word;*** 21 that they may all be one; even as You, Father, are in Me and I in You, that they also may be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me.

**Where is the only place to find the truth? God’s Word for it say His Word is Truth, set them aside (sanctify) in your truth. This is for the Christian, not the worldly.

What about the OT?**

Ps 25:5
*** Lead me in Your truth and teach me***, For You are the God of my salvation; For You I wait all the day.
All the paths of the LORD are lovingkindness and truth To those who keep His covenant and His testimonies.

Ps 26:3
For Your lovingkindness is before my eyes, And I have walked in Your truth.

Ps 31:5
Into Your hand I commit my spirit; You have ransomed me, O LORD, God of truth.

Ps 43:3
O send out Your light and Your truth, let them lead me; Let them bring me to Your holy hill And to Your dwelling places.

Ps 51:6
Behold, You desire truth in the innermost being, And in the hidden part ***You will make me know wisdom. ***

Ps 69:13
But as for me, my prayer is to You, O LORD, at an acceptable time; O God, in the greatness of Your lovingkindness, Answer me with Your saving truth

Ps 86:11
Teach me Your way, O LORD; I will walk in Your truth; Unite my heart to fear Your name.

The OP is not so funny anymore, but rather accurate.

On Wisdom:
Job 28
5 "The earth, from it comes food, And underneath it is turned up as fire. 6 "Its rocks are the source of sapphires, And its dust {contains} gold. 7 "The path no bird of prey knows, Nor has the falcon’s eye caught sight of it. 8 "The proud beasts have not trodden it, Nor has the {fierce} lion passed over it. 9 "He puts his hand on the flint; He overturns the mountains at the base. 10 "He hews out channels through the rocks, And his eye sees anything precious. 11 "He dams up the streams from flowing, And what is hidden he brings out to the light. 12*** "But where can wisdom be found?*** And where is the place of understanding? 13 "Man does not know its value, Nor is it found in the land of the living.

 

[MacDaddy]

The Church has never kept the Bible from anyone, publicly or privately. That you say she did is false and you should never repeat this lie.

Can you please explain why William Tyndale was murdered and burned at the stake after being imprisoned for a year by the Catholic Church? What was his crime and how does it relate to the OP’s comment? What was the Church doing when they came across these Bibles? Why? I would like to know.

I just came across this in my research:
Council of Toulouse, 1229, Canon 14: “We prohibit the permission of the books of the Old and New Testament to laymen, except perhaps they might desire to have the Psalter, or some Breviary for the divine service, or the Hours of the blessed Virgin Mary, for devotion; ***expressly forbidding their having the other parts of the Bible translated into the vulgar tongue” ***(Pierre Allix, Ecclesiastical History of Ancient Churches of the Albigenses, published in Oxford at the Clarendon Press in 1821, reprinted in USA in 1989 by Church History Research & Archives, P.O. Box 38, Dayton Ohio, 45449, p. 213).

Perhaps you could put this in laymens terms, then apologize to the OP as the Lord leads you.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

you do realize that the execution took place under Henry VIII in 1536, which was three **years **after he had split from the Catholic church??? IOW. Tynedale was executed for heresy under the head of the protestant church of England.

ouch. You probably **didn’t **realize that,

 

[MacDaddy]

From my perspective, Catholic seeking Mary intercession via pray is idolatry is a moot point. Catholics don’t believe Mary is God or has any divine qualities. All the graces Mary has received are from God Himself and she remains a model for Christian living from her first fiat.

In short, I think that Catholics believe Mary is God or has divine qualities and that by Catholics seeking her intercession as idolatry is a moot point. To think otherwise, one would have to deny our Church’s teachings. However, if honor should be given to the saints and Mary can be debated, although for the Catholic this matter has already been dealt with.

What are your sources for the “historical context”? The Bible? ECFs? Another book?

Here are some articles: one about devotion to Mary and idolatry.

If Mary or the saints do not have divine qualities, then why would you pray to them? If you pray out loud and are able to hear you and the other multitudes at the same time, then they must be omnipresent, a divine quality. If you pray in your mind, then they would be omniscient, another divine quality and if you pray silently and ask for something supernatural, then omnipotence would apply, another divine quality.

As I have stated before; I don’t really care if your worship Mary or anything else, that is your business. I do point out when a Catholic denies that it is worship, when the Church clearly states otherwise and I am sure to give the link and put in the context such as dulia is dependent on latria and latria stands alone. In the end, god will judge the intents of the heart and decide if it violates His attributes or not; that is not for me or for you to decide. For me; I proceed with caution because He told me how I am to pray and how the Apostles were to pray.

I hope you understand, I am not criticizing you or others, just pointing to what is actually taught. I hope it is within context as well. I did notice that one of the Catholic posters read the link and on the next post said in fact we worship Mary and other saints but with the qualifier that latria is in ultimate view.

 

[crm114]

Where is the 'ignore all posts by this user" button?

 

[MacDaddy]

Funny the first time the Saints that are mentioned “crying out to God” is in Chapter 6 of Revelation, then we are introduced to those in chapter 7 who came out of the Great Tribulation. I can only surmise by your post here in disagreeing with Padrej that you believe that Chapter 7 of Revelation happened before chapter 6? Are you saying the John got it wrong when he wrote this in the order he did? I don’t think so.

Funny Padrej, a protestant, quotes the Bible properly and you basically accuse him of needing pride and humility. That is a real shame, you should study your Bible more and not be so quick to stand in the place of God and pass judgment as you have just done.

When are the seals opened? Before, during or after the tribulation? During, so I stand firm in His truth!

It is you that just passed judgment in similar fashion as Padrej. If you would please read the entire posts and dialogue, then I believe you will see the context and not pass judgment.

 

[MacDaddy]

Interesting that you are not even knowledgeable about the meaning and synonyms of the word “judge.” If you were to look them up, being “critical” of another or even “discerning” between two falls under the realm of judgment/ judge/ judging. Now you can muddy the waters all you want with “it is all about the Scribes and Pharisees” when you know Jesus aimed his words at everyone as warning. True God alone can read intention, but you accuse in the post as you brought forth, “Is it a violation of the first or second commandments? I don’t know with certainty; do you?” Certainly you posed it in the form of a question but the question is a rhetorical one at best in light of the entire context of your post; hence you fall into the category of passing judgment as Padrej was reminding you.

A rhetorical question is one that supposes an specific answer. I answered myself by saying I do not know with certainty and I don’t. Are you taking time to actually read the posts? “Muddying the waters” or trying to give context and understanding, which you seemed to have missed, I gave clear examples of the type of criticism that Jesus was speaking, taking the seat of God versus discerning. Again you presented yourself as one who reads the intent of the heart; the same error again to which both of you have judged by your own words. And I see you have done it again below.

The word “judge” is the word krino, and it is translated in a minimum of 15 different ways because it has such a broad meaning. We must understand the context to discern its meaning. The context is a contrast with the Pharisees all throughout this sermon. From a biblical context, Jesus is not forbidding all judgment, because He talks in so many other places of the necessity of judgments. We are not to judge people’s motives; God will do that. Have we all been guilty of doing this very thing? That’s is a rhetorical question.

If you like I can give you some clear teaching on these passages to assist you in discerning the passages and the contextual meaning of such.

Pr 18:4
The words of a man’s mouth are deep waters; The fountain of wisdom is a bubbling brook.

Your claims that praying to Mary which is not worship runs contrary to the teachings of the Roman Catholic Church clearly shows a lack of understanding on your part of how the Catholic church feels and venerates Mary. Yet your posts are such that one would come to the conclusion that your line of “questioning” as you call it smacks of being judgmental.

Read what your Church teaches here; it is spelled out in no uncertain terms and I do understand the dulia and hyperdulia is dependent on the lateria, whereas latria is independent. If you would have read the entire posts, then you would not be on an offensive; I try not to say that which is not true, but I am amazed at the denial on the part of Catholics on this topic, when it is so clearly taught. If I were a Catholic, I would say yes and explain the degrees and the dependence of dulia and hyperdulia on latria as being the end object/person of “affection”.

Now there is a second person who agrees with the Protestant Padrej regarding your posts in this matter of them being clearly judgmental. It may do you good to heed that passage of scripture that he quoted instead of giving a verbal backlash like some spoiled brat teen would to a parent that is giving friendly advice to the teen who “knows it all.” But as you pointed out, we are all at various places in our walk, that is OK that you can be the teen that knows it all.

I’ll let God judge; won’t you?