An Observation

[MacDaddy]

Thank you.

Tell your friends.

Anyone specific you had in mind? The link is pretty clear of the distinctions, there are three clear and separate words and each with an explanation of its intent and is not difficult to understand in my opinion. It actually helps me to understand the Catholic eye view better.

 

[dcrowmik]

If you pray for a person, that is an intercessory prayer that is certainly NOT prohibited by scripture. NOW Jesus when condemning the Sadducees said in Mathew 22:32 that God is a God of the LIVING not of the dead; so the Saints in heaven would then be alive and still be praying. As Jesus said God described Himself as “the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.” Obviously at the time Jesus spoke those words the patriarchs he mentioned were long in the ground buried. With that in mind I would say that these saint’s do continually intercede for us as well.
Granted there IS only one true mediator between God and Man and that is the person of Jesus Christ; however, would it not also make sense when you are in a spiritual crisis and you are asking everyone else to pray for you that you asked somebody already that much closer to God’s ear to pray for you also?
I hope that is a simple enough answer for you.
Funny Protestants have no problems “binding demons” in Jesus name, and calling on Angels to come and protect them and do their bidding and such, but will not ask a saint for an intercessory prayer. Funny I don’t see the difference.

Thank you very much! You have helped me (and, I hope, others). A nice and simple answer that, I believe, totally contradicts everything Fair Lady and MacDaddy have said about this particular issue.

This thread originally started with Fair Lady stating her opinion that Catholics pray to Mary, ask her for assistance and give her undo praise because of that. It’s been shown throughout this thread how praying to Mary is an intercessory type of prayer and that it has nothing to do with “worshiping” her like God. Even MacDaddy himself has stated that Catholics do not worship Mary like God.

Both of them, however, have clung to the “do only what the Bible tells us” mantra but have then turned around and said NOT to ask for intercessory prayer from Mary or the saints. They have given no reasoning behind that opinion of theirs nor have they given any scriptural references (although they have given LOADS of scriptural references about other things). I guess that is because the Bible does NOT prohibit intercessory prayer nor even make any allusions against it.

If Fair Lady or MacDaddy don’t make any response to this simple issue about intercessory prayer that Fair Lady started in the first place, then I wonder if they might have somehow begun to secretly agree that intercessory prayer to Mary and the saints truly is OK. If they do begin to believe, that’s good. If they’re searching for a scriptural basis that it truly is wrong and can’t find it, that’s OK because after being asked over and over in these past 20-something pages to provide the scriptural proof, they never have.

By the way Fair Lady and MacDaddy, this is not meant to prove you wrong, just a simple question for you to help me find the scriptural basis for something you have said.

Thanks.

 

[MacDaddy]

And the Scriptures which St. Paul used **did not include **Acts, or the 4 gospels, or St. Paul’s own letters, or the letters of St. Peter and St. James or St. John’s works . .The “Scripture” that St. Paul used (in addition to the oral teaching which later was incorporated to some degree but not fully in the New Testament as some always remained ‘oral’ tradition) was what we know today as the Old Testament only. The **gospel **(as an addition or an explanation to the Old Testament Scripture, but not Scripture itself at the time St. Paul taught) he preached certainly included some elements, especially later in time, of that which we know as the New Testament, but St. Paul would not have preached it as “scripture”; if St. Paul noted something as Scripture it would only be what we know today as the Old Testament.

Can you provide one example of an oral teaching that is not in written Scripture and show it is of divine origin? I don’t think anyone can legitimately, but I would like to know where those who do believe that get the divine authority and be able to show it is divine.

 

[rovimax]

The Koran has nonsense and errors; therefore is not from God. Which Koran, the first was lost, then the second can; if that were the Bible there would be no Christianity. How many would actually adhere to the Koran if given the opportunity to have someone share the gospel of Jesus?

No one; I made the choice. If you are not sure the HS is guiding you, then maybe He is not. The Bible is clear that the Holy Spirit testifies to our spirit that we are God’s children. I have that experience in my walk continually, therefore I have no doubts because I made the choice to fully deny myself and put my life in the hands of the Lord Jesus.

John 3:16 is accurate, but the key is what does it mean to believe? Once one understands that, then the whole picture of the Gospel is revealed.

I do nothing out of fear anymore because I am sealed by the Holy Spirit to the day of my glorification as it is written; this is the blessing that come from faith alone and obedience to the Lord. How much is God’s part and how much is your part in order to gain heaven?

Hi Mac,

Are you bold enough to say to a Muslim that the Koran is nonsence and with errors? I must admit I am not bold enough to tell that to a Muslim but I was bold enough to tell my Muslim ship mates and crew that I believe in the Bible and Jesus Christ. No more further revelation of salvation after Jesus Christ. Somebody might have told you it is nonsence? You claimed no one told you to buy the Bible and you made the choice. Yet you claim we are guided by the HS. How can you claim you are guided by the HS if you have not read the Bible and nobody told you about the HS? So why the Bible and not other religious books. Is it ok for you to admit that it was others testimony that Christianity is good that’s why you want to learn about it and the Bible is a Christian Book or is it only Christianity is available in your sight? Christianity existed and the OT and NT of the Bible existed already when Islam was born. That’s why I told you that the Koran has an attractive teaching. Many Christians have converted to Islam. Don’t get me wrong I am not for Islam but I like to make a point that seems to me you have missed. Mind you Christianity existed already before the Gospel of John was written.

Here is what I understand. In Jer 31:31-34, God wrote His Laws into my heart, that’s why I have a concience and inclined to believe in God, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob. I am a Christian because I was baptized ( as an infant ). I continually a Christian because I accepted God exists and the Holy Spirit is guiding me to continually believe there is a Church Jesus established that helps to nourish me to be strong in all trials and continually teach me in love, faith and hope. I belive that this Church is the fulfillment of Mal 1:11 and Mat 16.

My part to be saved??? Deut 6:4-9, Mat 22:37-40, Mark 12:29-33, Luke27:28. I can only do these things with Gods Grace. Everything I have is given by Him 1Cor 4:7 even my faith.
God’s part? We both know that His LOVE tells us enough.

By the way I learned from somebody that ‘‘faith alone’’ occurs only one time in the original Bibles. James 2:24 …a person is not saved by his faith alone. In some tranlations in Rom 3:28, the word alone was intentionally added by Martin Luther to justify his belief that a person is saved by ‘‘faith alone’’.

Regarding eternal life, I just like to refer to you this verses? Do these verses contradict each other?

John 3:16, Acts 16;31
Acts 2:38, 2 Peter 3:9
John 3:5, 1Peter 3:21, Titus 3:5
2Cor 3:6
Luke 12:8, Rom 10:9
1Tim 2:4, Heb 10:26
Rom 2:6-7, James 2:24
Acts 15:11, Eph 2:8
Rom 5:9, Heb 9:22
Rom 5:17, 2Peter 1:1
Eph 2:16, Col 2:14
Thanks, Happy reading.

 

[MacDaddy]

AMEN!!!
Brilliant observation!!!

I have seen a certain level of immaturity within this forum, but you are in a class all about yourself.

This is typical for those that cannot refute their position with the Word of God so they resort to name calling and slander and coming from a “representative of God” brings reproach on yourself, the people that laid hands on you, and more importantly on God.

I let a lot of things go by, but when you begin to bring reproach on my Lord and my Savior by your thoughts, words and deeds, then it gets a little personal. Just a warning; God will chasten His own and condemn those who are not.

**Why do you continue to repeat the same sin? I pray that Christ will remove the veil if He hasn’t yet for His namesake.
**
James 1:26
If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not bridle his tongue but deceives his {own} heart, this man’s religion is worthless.

Overseers and Deacons
1 Timothy 3
1 It is a trustworthy statement: if any man aspires to the office of overseer, it is a fine work he desires to do. 2 An overseer, then, must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, temperate, prudent, respectable, hospitable, peaceable, able to teach, 3 not addicted to wine or pugnacious, but gentle, , free from the love of money. 4 He must be one who manages his own household well, keeping his children under control with all dignity 5 (but if a man does not know how to manage his own household, how will he take care of the church of God?), 6 and not a new convert, so that he will not become conceited and fall into the condemnation incurred by the devil. 7 And he must have a good reputation with those outside the church, so that he will not fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.

How serious is God about this?

1 Timothy 5
20 Those who continue in sin, rebuke in the presence of all, so that the rest also will be fearful of sinning. 21 I solemnly charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus and of His chosen angels, to maintain these principles without bias, doing nothing in a spirit of partiality. 22 Do not lay hands upon anyone too hastily and thereby share responsibility for the sins of others; keep yourself free from sin.

We have nothing else to say to each other and I will be praying for you everyday this week. May God bless you.

 

[rovimax]

Can you provide one example of an oral teaching that is not in written Scripture and show it is of divine origin? I don’t think anyone can legitimately, but I would like to know where those who do believe that get the divine authority and be able to show it is divine.

Is the Canon of the New Testament qualify on your question?

In Acts 20;35 Paul said that Jesus said …it is more blessed to to give than to receive. This quote is nowhere found in the Gospels but Paul wrote it. is this statement qualified?

 

[Dancelittleewok]

MacDaddy, mind replying to post 321 and 330? Both are found on page 22.

 

[MacDaddy]

paleks.com

I hope its okay if I interject here with some comments to the orignal poster, and to her original post. I finished reading the entire thread just now - phew! Its long and there are many side related discussions going on now. But I would like to make some observations about what I just read. However, I see that it will take me two posts to get it on here. I hope you will accept that after 22 pages of reading! Here is part one:

I think its safe to say your statement reflects a foundational belief of yours. What you state here was early on so blaringly obvious a beleif to the Catholic posters, and that is why they have descended on you with arguments against Sola Scriptura.

In other posts you exhort Catholics to get out their Bibles and read, not realizing how very arrogant that sounds, as most of the Catholic posters here are steeped deeply in the scripture of Holy Mother Church. However it was probably not arrogance but innocent ignorance. You are probably also not aware that our Mass is deeply steeped in scripture.

I would say it is the multiple misuse of the contextual meaning of Scripture being presented, wholly different based on reading the threads and just my observations. Another observation, if you use Scripture to show a doctrinal error; you are automatically wrong and many times slandered, which no one takes too personally hopefully and is now expected. However at the end of the day and end of earthly life; God knows and judges what is right and what is not.

But the Bible say the Church, not scripture, is the pillar and foundation of truth.

Two problems, first it is not the foundation, you will not find the word in that passage as “foundation”, the better translation is “support” or “ground” but if you do a word search in the NT on foundation, such as 1Co 3:11 For no man can lay a foundation other than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ Second, the body of Christ is responsible for guarding the truth, supporting the great commission, and the building up and edification of its members, and bringing glory to God in the process, that is the meaning of that passage and purpose of the church.

This is what we stand on. The Church: the pillar and foundation of truth. It is the Church that gave us Holy Scripture - and we agree with you on the holiness and sacredness of those words.

It was God who gave us His word; it was the Holy Spirit that worked on a group of men, Catholic or catholic or otherwise, to decide which books were in and which were not. Quite different to your claim.

No where in the Bible does it say all you need for faith is in the Bible. Thats an extra, added belief of Protestants who broke off, in disunity, from the Church that Christ formed. You are still of the Catholic Chruch, only separated out a bit, by choice and by ignorance.

The Scripture provides the the morals, salvation, and Christian conduct as deemed by His Word, He sets the standard. **“Man shall not live by bread alone but by EVERY word that proceeds from the MOUTH of God” - Jesus Christ 30 A.D. ** Where do you find the Word of God? The church, what is it from the Biblical definition? 1 Co. 12:13 put it in a nutshell: “For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.” - Not water baptism but Spirit baptism as John the Baptist said that Jesus does at conversion.
Christians have been united with Christ through spiritual baptism, sometimes referred corporately as the body of Christ. (Romans. 12:4-5; 1 Cor. 12:11,13,18,27; Col. 1:l8; Eph. 5:30) The corporate meaning is that Christians constitute the visible representation of Christ on earth. Metaphorically, it demonstrates the mutuality of all members in the church and at the same time manifesting diversity one from the other. (Rom. 12:4; 1 Cor. 12:14-17)
Romans 12:4 For just as we have many members in one body and all the members do not have the same function

The Church has been handed sacred traditions from the apostles and from Jesus Himself. One is the sign of the cross. You have lost it, but we have held onto it since the times of the apostles, who obviously weren’t making things up, but were taught from Jesus Himself.

From 2 Thessalonioans 2:15 in your King James version:
Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

The teachings in this passage above state they already existed and this passage also show the relation to oral teaching and letter teaching to be one in the same. There is no “sign of the cross” in this. How are these extra traditions known and if known, then where is the divine authorization for such teaching. Don’t get me wrong; “sign of the cross” violates nothing in Scripture, but you used this as an example and I’m questioning where it came from and under what divine authority? I do not have any problems with traditions, but the litmus test is always to be the Word of God since this is the food for the Christian as Jesus aptly stated throughout the Scriptures.

Someone else can address the rest…please and thank you.

 

[MacDaddy]

Just repeating your original position, huh? If that’s the case, then all we have are your confused perceptions about what the Church teaches.

First of, God is Infinite. That being said, He cannot have any separate parts or restrictions placed upon Him. Space and time would mean that some part of him is separated, making Him finite and no longer eternal. Where God exist, there is no time. Heaven isn’t endless time but a place where time has no meaning; it is the eternal now. But even ‘the eternal now’ predicates a time restriction so here is where our words fall to grasp what God has revealed to us. God’s divine qualities mean that He can here prayers but not that it is needed to hear ‘all at one time’ because for the Eternal God, time has no meaning.

As Des pointed out, God has gifted us by making us ‘in His image’ by giving us a free will, intellect, and an immortal soul. You might want to check out 2nd Peter 1:4 as well.

More later, off to dinner…

What does this have anything to do with the issues of the fact that for a saint or Mary or statue or relic et al would need God’s divine qualities, which to my knowledge was partially given to the Apostles for a very short period of time. Still the authority and power resided with God.

 

[MacDaddy]

Thanks for the partial answer but excuse me for still not understanding or finding the full answer. I still have not really found a scriptural answer on why asking for intercessory prayer from living persons is OK and why it is not OK asking from those who are gone from this earth (as with Mary). As I mentioned before and as you see above, Fair Lady gave a number of scriptural references for intercessory prayer (and asking Mary, or the saints for that matter, is asking for intercessory prayer).

However, neither you nor Fair Lady have helped me find any scriptural basis for prohibition of intercessory prayer from those not on this earth. If intercessory prayer by living persons is scripturally based then mustn’t there also be a scriptural reference about not asking those who have passed on, yes?

No need to repeat the “this is how you are to pray” quotes again unless you mean also to say that we all shouldn’t be asking each other on this thread to pray for each other.

Thanks again for bearing with me. I’m looking forward again to your answer.

Hebrews 7:25 Therefore He is able also to save forever those who draw near to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them.

Here is the affirmative and the only intercessor concerning prayer:
Romans 8:26-28
26 In the same way the Spirit also helps our weakness; for we do not know how to pray as we should, but the Spirit Himself intercedes for {us} with groanings too deep for words; 27 and He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He intercedes for the saints according to {the will of} God. 28 And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to {His} purpose.

Furthermore, this is the WILL of God.

When the Apostles said, Lord teach us to pray? What was His reply and did He not only set the example by His personal prayer life, but the Apostles did the same.

We have overwhelming positive evidence and an affirmation of Gods will; i do not need any more and consider it as being obedient to His will to pray directly to the Father. You all have every right and can make a different choice.

 

[Dancelittleewok]

What does this have anything to do with the issues of the fact that for a saint or Mary or statue or relic et al would need God’s divine qualities, which to my knowledge was partially given to the Apostles for a very short period of time. Still the authority and power resided with God.

Please see your previous posts addressed to me and Des. Carefully look at the divine qualities and time.

You might also want to prove to me why these qualities are needed. It appears you take your reasoning as self-evident and have no substance to dismiss ours.

 

[Dancelittleewok]

Hebrews 7:25 Therefore He is able also to save forever those who draw near to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them.

Here is the affirmative and the only intercessor concerning prayer:
Romans 8:26-28
26 In the same way the Spirit also helps our weakness; for we do not know how to pray as we should, but the Spirit Himself intercedes for {us} with groanings too deep for words; 27 and He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He intercedes for the saints according to {the will of} God. 28 And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to {His} purpose.

Furthermore, this is the WILL of God.

When the Apostles said, Lord teach us to pray? What was His reply and did He not only set the example by His personal prayer life, but the Apostles did the same.

We have overwhelming positive evidence and an affirmation of Gods will; i do not need any more and consider it as being obedient to His will to pray directly to the Father. You all have every right and can make a different choice.

You pray directly to the Father? Tell me, Whom is the Mediator?

 

[MacDaddy]

MATTHEW 23???
Matthew 23 1-12 Jesus Characterizes the Pharisees 13-36 he condemns them and then 37-39 laments over Jerusalem. OHHHH THOU GREAT BIBLE SCHOLAR tell me how those verses connect with Revelation 6 and 7?

Proof YOU ARE in a small minority if you think Matthew 23 is a connection. Any fool knows its chapter 24. But, being as you are so sure of yourself lets here you explain how the Pharisees have to do with Revelation.

But lets say that you are correct and it is “during,”(AKA mid Tribulation) it STILL justifies that Saints intercede for those here on earth. Those “crying out” were already dead awaiting God’s vengeance on those who were ill treating them and those still living, so HOW can you continue to muddy the waters and say that it cannot be Saints interceding? Even if it is a Post Tribulation cry out it would still justify the same. Come on lets see you tackle it.

BTW Mr Matthew 23 what seminary did you go to? Give me an answer to that before I answer any more of your salvation questions about myself.

A typo and you know it by in your continuation of sin before the Lord you cannot help yourself because your tongue is full of deceit as the James explained. It is not I you are bringing reproach on but yourselves.

I have never been to seminary.

When the seal was open the cries came out, these are the cries “remembered” by God while they were be persecuted on earth as chapter 7 confirms, which you presented. You can look at other part of Scripture, particularly the OT has a few example of God “remembering the cries” of the oppressed.

Anyway, I am done dialoging with you because you are not a very charitable person and this will stop you from continuing in sin at least in dialogue with me.

Good day and good luck. No need to answer anything else i believe you have said enough and you are easy to discern as to your true spiritual nature. I pray God will change that for His namesake.

I was reading to my son tonight and teaching Him about the parable of the Pharisee and the tax collector; you remind me of this parable sadly enough.

 

[cecilia97]

I feel very blessed to be Catholic and I’m sorry that I left the Church and that it took so long for me to return. I have never been happier than I am now, as a Catholic, who prays to Mary and the saints.

Amen…me too. And Catholics who read the Bible, no less!

 

[MacDaddy]

MATTHEW 23??? Jesus and his condemnation of the Pharisees??? Oh this is rich!!!
You accuse others of Scriptural error and look at yourself. You should be ashamed. But as the book of Proverbs says, “Pride goes before the fall” and OHHH how the mighty MacDaddy has proven this tonight.
You have just proven that the rest of your post is not worth beans.

**
As I said to Padrej, it was a typo and you know that exactly that it was; but thought you would take even more pleasure in sin. **

Romans 1
28 And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper, 29 being filled with all unrighteousness, wickedness, greed, evil; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malice; they are gossips, 30 slanderers, haters of God, insolent, arrogant, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, 31 without understanding, untrustworthy, unloving, unmerciful; 32 and although they know the ordinance of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, they not only do the same, but also give hearty approval to those who practice them.

No need to reply; God will judge the intents of the hearts and this includes mine as well. I will not respond to any more of your post least I should become responsible for your sins.

 

[MacDaddy]

Thank you very much! You have helped me (and, I hope, others). A nice and simple answer that, I believe, totally contradicts everything Fair Lady and MacDaddy have said about this particular issue.

This thread originally started with Fair Lady stating her opinion that Catholics pray to Mary, ask her for assistance and give her undo praise because of that. It’s been shown throughout this thread how praying to Mary is an intercessory type of prayer and that it has nothing to do with “worshiping” her like God. Even MacDaddy himself has stated that Catholics do not worship Mary like God.

Both of them, however, have clung to the “do only what the Bible tells us” mantra but have then turned around and said NOT to ask for intercessory prayer from Mary or the saints. They have given no reasoning behind that opinion of theirs nor have they given any scriptural references (although they have given LOADS of scriptural references about other things). I guess that is because the Bible does NOT prohibit intercessory prayer nor even make any allusions against it.

If Fair Lady or MacDaddy don’t make any response to this simple issue about intercessory prayer that Fair Lady started in the first place, then I wonder if they might have somehow begun to secretly agree that intercessory prayer to Mary and the saints truly is OK. If they do begin to believe, that’s good. If they’re searching for a scriptural basis that it truly is wrong and can’t find it, that’s OK because after being asked over and over in these past 20-something pages to provide the scriptural proof, they never have.

By the way Fair Lady and MacDaddy, this is not meant to prove you wrong, just a simple question for you to help me find the scriptural basis for something you have said.

Thanks.

I have never known a Christian-Protestant call on anyone other than God. All I can tell you is if you cannot communicate directly, within ear shot or email or phone, fax et al, then the person you pray to has to have divine character, that belongs to God alone and is what makes God, God. Omniscience & onmipresence are the two of God’s attributes I mediate on in light of prayer, but that will be between you and God. I am safe because Jesus told me how to pray and told me the role of the Holy Spirit as the intercessor for my weak prayers. No other examples exist in the bible and when the Apostles said “teach us to pray”, Jesus gave the model prayer known as the Lord’s Prayer. He followed His own advice 100% of the time and so did the Apostles; so in my world that carries a lot of spiritual weight. To each there own, I’m out of this thread for good after this post, so if I missed anyone, then if the Lord allows we can pick it up again in an other thread.

 

[MacDaddy]

Hi Mac,

Are you bold enough to say to a Muslim that the Koran is nonsence and with errors?

That was not the context of the question you asked. If I were witnessing to a Muslim i would point out some of the things that are in error and ask if Allah is the God of error; then move forward into the :Good news".

I must admit I am not bold enough to tell that to a Muslim but I was bold enough to tell my Muslim ship mates and crew that I believe in the Bible and Jesus Christ. No more further revelation of salvation after Jesus Christ. Somebody might have told you it is nonsence? You claimed no one told you to buy the Bible and you made the choice. Yet you claim we are guided by the HS. How can you claim you are guided by the HS if you have not read the Bible and nobody told you about the HS?

No one told me to buy the Bible; I was given one by my mother 10-12 years prior and i never opened it up and when I did I began to read, then desire to know more. i knew some people who called themselves Christians and asked for some solid Biblical preaching and they gave me some names and I began to listen and i researched the different versions to see why some use this or that while some used multiple. I know own multiple versions. the more I learn about other religions; if the Bible, which has stood the test of time, was contradictory in nature as other religious books are, then i would have the one that is without error because only God can write a supernatural book and the bible fits the bill. the more i learn about other religions and the more i learn about od’s word; I have been convinced that you can stack all your religious books to the left side and put the Bible on the right side, the place of honor.

So why the Bible and not other religious books. Is it ok for you to admit that it was others testimony that Christianity is good that’s why you want to learn about it and the Bible is a Christian Book or is it only Christianity is available in your sight? Christianity existed and the OT and NT of the Bible existed already when Islam was born. That’s why I told you that the Koran has an attractive teaching. Many Christians have converted to Islam. Don’t get me wrong I am not for Islam but I like to make a point that seems to me you have missed. Mind you Christianity existed already before the Gospel of John was written.

Professing “Christians” move onto another religion because Christ never knew them.

Here is what I understand. In Jer 31:31-34, God wrote His Laws into my heart, that’s why I have a concience and inclined to believe in God, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob. I am a Christian because I was baptized ( as an infant ). I continually a Christian because I accepted God exists and the Holy Spirit is guiding me to continually believe there is a Church Jesus established that helps to nourish me to be strong in all trials and continually teach me in love, faith and hope. I belive that this Church is the fulfillment of Mal 1:11 and Mat 16.

Jesus Christ is the only Christian maker in the world. - Romans 8, Romans 3 & others

My part to be saved??? Deut 6:4-9, Mat 22:37-40, Mark 12:29-33, Luke27:28. I can only do these things with Gods Grace. Everything I have is given by Him 1Cor 4:7 even my faith.
God’s part? We both know that His LOVE tells us enough.

By the way I learned from somebody that ‘‘faith alone’’ occurs only one time in the original Bibles. James 2:24

Faith alone is so implicit throughout Scripture, that the word alone needs not be stated; some just don’t ever see it.

 

[MacDaddy]

Is the Canon of the New Testament qualify on your question?

In Acts 20;35 Paul said that Jesus said …it is more blessed to to give than to receive. This quote is nowhere found in the Gospels but Paul wrote it. is this statement qualified?

The Canon of the NT is the written word; so no.

Anyway; I have finished up here; we will talk again and feel free to elaborate more on this later. God bless you.

 

[rovimax]

That was not the context of the question you asked. If I were witnessing to a Muslim i would point out some of the things that are in error and ask if Allah is the God of error; then move forward into the :Good news".

No one told me to buy the Bible; I was given one by my mother 10-12 years prior and i never opened it up and when I did I began to read, then desire to know more. i knew some people who called themselves Christians and asked for some solid Biblical preaching and they gave me some names and I began to listen and i researched the different versions to see why some use this or that while some used multiple. I know own multiple versions. the more I learn about other religions; if the Bible, which has stood the test of time, was contradictory in nature as other religious books are, then i would have the one that is without error because only God can write a supernatural book and the bible fits the bill. the more i learn about other religions and the more i learn about od’s word; I have been convinced that you can stack all your religious books to the left side and put the Bible on the right side, the place of honor.

Professing “Christians” move onto another religion because Christ never knew them.

Jesus Christ is the only Christian maker in the world. - Romans 8, Romans 3 & others

My part to be saved??? Deut 6:4-9, Mat 22:37-40, Mark 12:29-33, Luke27:28. I can only do these things with Gods Grace. Everything I have is given by Him 1Cor 4:7 even my faith.
God’s part? We both know that His LOVE tells us enough.

By the way I learned from somebody that ‘‘faith alone’’ occurs only one time in the original Bibles. James 2:24

Faith alone is so implicit throughout Scripture, that the word alone needs not be stated; some just don’t ever see it.

Professing “Christians” move onto another religion because Christ never knew them.

How about if they repent and realized they made a mistake and come back to Christianity? Jesus don’t know them? That’s why there is a Sacrament of Reconcilliation.

Jesus Christ is the only Christian maker in the world. - Romans 8, Romans 3 & others

Obcourse He is but how He does it? He sent messengers to preach didn’t He? Romans 10? Aren’t the messengers member of a Church?

Can we conclude which translation is correct or does it have to fit our pre packaged beliefs? The KJV used the word ‘‘traditions’’ in 1Cor 11:2 while the TEV used the word ‘‘teachings’’, are they both the Word of God? Romans 3:28, is it with the word ‘‘alone’’ in TEV or with out as in other versions? Really I am curiuos how different people view the different translation of the Bible?

Anyway since you are done I’ll leave you. I just hope you will read the verses I recomended to you in my previous post. It helped me see the bigger picture of Salvation and Eternal Life. God bless!!!

 

[Des]

I explained it in the context and gave the link so you can see for yourself;

All you’ve done was reiterate the dogma of MacDaddy where God cannot permit anyone other than God, to share with Him, some of His Divine gifts.

there is nothing more I can do and nothing that needs to be done except to part dialogue with you because have not been charitable in the least to me.

Take the log out of your own eye first MD. And I don’t mind this at all. Gives me the space to refute you to educate the lurkers without having to worry about reading anymore of your fluffy responses.

This is the reply for #321 & #322. Your accusations are false and unwarranted and you “play dumb” in reference to playing God for your multiple condemning statements.

Enjoy you walk in life and I pray God blesses you in a mighty way.

lol, I always get a nice chuckle by a supposed Christian who first insults then ends his convo with a God Bless.

What does this have anything to do with the issues of the fact that for a saint or Mary or statue or relic et al would need God’s divine qualities, which to my knowledge was partially given to the Apostles for a very short period of time. Still the authority and power resided with God.

Has to do with the dogma of MacDaddy and which qualities God may or may not share with His creatures.

Please see your previous posts addressed to me and Des. Carefully look at the divine qualities and time.

I think we’ll be waiting awhile for one that one Dancelittleewok.