An Open Letter To Melinda Gates By Fr. Tom Euteneuer (HLI)

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magicianXVI said:
And you and others have failed to substantiate your claim that condoms are useless.

That abstinence has the best success rate is a no-brainer. However, it is an impractical solution to a pervasive problem.
You’re citing a fantasy world which has no connection to the reality of the human condition.
That’s why abstinence fails.
You may ignore reality; but reality does not ignore the suffering.
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Actually we have. Just look at the evidence on lifenews.com. I gave you evidence and you don’t believe me. What human condition are you referring to? The statement “You’re citing a fantasy world which has no connection to the reality of the human condition. That’s why abstinence fails.” Where does this come from? What you said, makes absolutely no sense. Author, source, and documentation please.
 
bones_IV said:
Actually we have. Just look at the evidence on lifenews.com. I gave you evidence and you don’t believe me. What human condition are you referring to? The statement “You’re citing a fantasy world which has no connection to the reality of the human condition. That’s why abstinence fails.” Where does this come from? What you said, makes absolutely no sense. Author, source, and documentation please.
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It comes directly from my experience in the field.
Makes no sense? Of course it doesn’t if you’re an armchair philosopher.
 
magicianXVI said:
It comes directly from my experience in the field.
Makes no sense? Of course it doesn’t if you’re an armchair philosopher.
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Dude, come on. The Catholic faith is just not simply a philosophy and another religion it’s a way of life my friend. We don’t win over souls by waving a magic wand. We are to be doers of the word and listeners of it. Let’s be a little more charitable ok?
 
bones_IV said:
Dude, come on. The Catholic faith is just not simply a philosophy and another religion it’s a way of life my friend. We don’t win over souls by waving a magic wand. We are to be doers of the word and listeners of it. Let’s be a little more charitable ok?
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I’m not the one who’s being uncharitable. Condemning humans to a death sentence because they don’t agree with your position is certainly uncharitable.
Fortunately, in practice, even affiliates of the Church in Africa are inclined to support a more tolerant position, sneak though they must in the dark of night.
 
magicianXVI said:
I’m not the one who’s being uncharitable. Condemning humans to a death sentence because they don’t agree with your position is certainly uncharitable.
Fortunately, in practice, even affiliates of the Church in Africa are inclined to support a more tolerant position, sneak though they must in the dark of night.
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That’s a pretty wild accusation to accuse someone of condemning humans to a death sentence when we are promoting abstinence. How does abstinence promote death?
 
bones_IV said:
That’s a pretty wild accusation to accuse someone of condemning humans to a death sentence when we are promoting abstinence. How does abstinence promote death?
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Abstinence doesn’t promote death - intolerance does. Intolerance of people and their culture, intolerance of other people’s opinions, intolerance which disallows any other solution, however inadequate, to address the problem.
A tolerant society acknowledges the severity of the problem and utilizes ALL means at their disposal to relieve suffering.
The combination of solutions i.e. abstinence, condoms, medical advances vis a vis vaccines and drugs and any other workable method which may present itself is the civilized way to treat the suffering. Withholding any one of these, to include the advice of abstinence or use of condoms, is morally wrong.
 
magicianXVI said:
Abstinence doesn’t promote death - intolerance does. Intolerance of people and their culture, intolerance of other people’s opinions, intolerance which disallows any other solution, however inadequate, to address the problem.
A tolerant society acknowledges the severity of the problem and utilizes ALL means at their disposal to relieve suffering.
The combination of solutions i.e. abstinence, condoms, medical advances vis a vis vaccines and drugs and any other workable method which may present itself is the civilized way to treat the suffering. Withholding any one of these, to include the advice of abstinence or use of condoms, is morally wrong.
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How are we showing intolerance to other cultures? I see no evidence of this.
 
bones_IV said:
How are we showing intolerance to other cultures? I see no evidence of this.
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Then you haven’t read this thread.
The culture of death is alive and well and it’s not only in the abortion clinics.
 
bones_IV said:
Dude, come on. The Catholic faith is just not simply a philosophy and another religion it’s a way of life my friend. We don’t win over souls by waving a magic wand. We are to be doers of the word and listeners of it. Let’s be a little more charitable ok?
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There you go again-accusing those who disagree that "promisouity plus condoms are the solution to the AIDS crisis are condemining people to death=what nonsense. I have counseled many young women who had bough into the snake oil you are preaching who ended up both pregnant and had STDs .

If one follows the teachings of Our Church they wont get AIDS. if one follows your teachings the odds are they will
 
magicianXVI said:
Abstinence doesn’t promote death - intolerance does. Intolerance of people and their culture, intolerance of other people’s opinions, intolerance which disallows any other solution, however inadequate, to address the problem.
A tolerant society acknowledges the severity of the problem and utilizes ALL means at their disposal to relieve suffering.
The combination of solutions i.e. abstinence, condoms, medical advances vis a vis vaccines and drugs and any other workable method which may present itself is the civilized way to treat the suffering. Withholding any one of these, to include the advice of abstinence or use of condoms, is morally wrong.
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So if one does not believe African men are sex starved wife beaters unable to contol their sexual urges they are intolerant? Strange things one learns “in the field”
 
estesbob said:
So if one does not believe African men are sex starved wife beaters unable to contol their sexual urges they are intolerant? Strange things one learns “in the field”
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Well, did your message of abstinence work?? I think not.

The next time you’re in Zimbabwe, give me a call. I’ll show you what it means to be a birth mother, infected with AIDS, giving birth to an infected child. If you actually saw that, you would (if you were a civilized human being) do everything in your power to prevent that from happening again.

Read on:

ZHULUBE, Zimbabwe

Little is easy these days for Gladys Mataruse. Walking tires her. Talking hurts. And in long, sleepless nights of coughing fits, she lacks even the comfort of her husband, who has declared her “useless” and moved away. But nothing, she explained in a hoarse whisper, is more painful than her fear that she will soon die of a mysterious disease, effectively orphaning her two school-age daughters.
who, by the way, were also infected with AIDS.

You are heartless people, steeped in your kitchen philosophy, with no compassion for the suffering. There will be a day of reckoning. I hope you are prepared.
 
KathleenElsie said:
We do not do people a favor when we expect only the worst from them. So I agree with you. Abstinence works every time when used.👍
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HIV/AIDS has killed some 25 million people worldwide. The vast majority of new HIV infections in sub-Saharan Africa are caused by unprotected sex, with the largest percentage of new infections occurring among women and girls. Comprehensive HIV-prevention programs that combine abstinence messages with factual information about condoms and safer sex have proven to be more effective than those that preach “abstinence only.” As a leading donor to HIV/AIDS programs worldwide, the United States cannot afford to substitute unproven HIV-prevention strategies for those that have succeeded in reducing behaviors that put people at risk of HIV/AIDS

U.S. Agency for International Development
 
So let me get this straight. Since people can not control themselves we should just throw a condom at them and say here this will solve your problems?
Forgive me, but *the condom saving you from AIDS line *simple doesn’t wash in my book. You see back in my wild youth I personally had the experience of having a condom break during sex. So yes, it does happen and it happens a lot more than people realize. What do you say to those people that have condoms break during sex? Condoms don’t save lives and people DO have the self-control to just say no. They just need to learn how to practice that self-control.
 
Sabda said:
So let me get this straight. Since people can not control themselves we should just throw a condom at them and say here this will solve your problems?
Forgive me, but *the condom saving you from AIDS line *simple doesn’t wash in my book. You see back in my wild youth I personally had the experience of having a condom break during sex. So yes, it does happen and it happens a lot more than people realize. What do you say to those people that have condoms break during sex? Condoms don’t save lives and people DO have the self-control to just say no. They just need to learn how to practice that self-control.
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It may not “wash” in your book, but to use anecdotal information misses the point. If you read this thread you would know that my position is to us ALL available means to avoid AIDS, whether it’s abstinence, condoms or other medical means.
I presume from the opinions expressed in this thread that if a viable vaccine were to be developed that you would make a case for not getting the vaccination.
The next time you meet someone who speaks Amharic, tell them that they should exercise “self control”. As I said in my original post - heads in the sand.
 
What do you say to those people that have condoms break during sex?

Just in case you missed it the first time. 🙂
 
Magican. doesn’t do a very good job at debating. When asked for proof or a question asked of him he totaly ignores it and just keeps on babbling
 
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