An open letter to priest- and deacon-homilists (most of whom will never see it)

[Lapey]

Non-Catholic services don’t have a 35-40 minute liturgy on top of their half-hour sermon of course. In my experience, anything after 8 or so minutes is either repetitive or more words that weigh down the original message - unless the homilist is truly exceptional, and those are really rare.

If a typical homilist cannot keep our attention more than 8 minutes, then maybe it’s not just the homilist. Are our schedules this tight that if Mass goes over an hour on Sunday morning that we have a crash of events?

I guess I am in an unusual situation, my pastor preaches as long as 40 minutes occasionally but never shorter than 15. Mass sometimes goes 1 hour and 20 minutes and people love it. Why you may ask? Because they are fed! He preaches scripture and truth from the Scriptures I do my best to go along the same lines when I preach one weekend a month. You will hear my pastor preach once a year on money, the annual bishop’s stewardship appeal; because the bishop mandates this, otherwise you would not hear money preached at all.

We need to work on the reason we go to Mass. Do we go because of requirement, like we are getting a card stamped? Are we going because we love God and want to be fed by Him? While I agree there are terrible homilists out there, there are also terrible listeners too. This is an active participation issue; how actively participating are we?

 

[DaveBj]

It’s 2013, after all. These updates could be in the bulletin and/or on the parish website.

Our previous pastor was a reverent celebrant but his one foible was that while he did the announcements after the closing prayer, it was almost reading the entire bulletin. With our new pastor, the pastoral council and the pastor have reached a compromise where announcements are for “emergency” purposes – an event scheduled for that day had to be canceled or something did not make the deadline for the bulletin. Otherwise, the brief announcement is to pick up a bulletin on the way out (BTW, they are NOT available before Mass and are handed out by ushers, not left on a table) an/or check the website for info.

^^^This.

 

[coachdennis]

If a typical homilist cannot keep our attention more than 8 minutes, then maybe it’s not just the homilist. Are our schedules this tight that if Mass goes over an hour on Sunday morning that we have a crash of events?

I guess I am in an unusual situation, my pastor preaches as long as 40 minutes occasionally but never shorter than 15. Mass sometimes goes 1 hour and 20 minutes and people love it. Why you may ask? Because they are fed! He preaches scripture and truth from the Scriptures I do my best to go along the same lines when I preach one weekend a month. You will hear my pastor preach once a year on money, the annual bishop’s stewardship appeal; because the bishop mandates this, otherwise you would not hear money preached at all.

We need to work on the reason we go to Mass. Do we go because of requirement, like we are getting a card stamped? Are we going because we love God and want to be fed by Him? While I agree there are terrible homilists out there, there are also terrible listeners too. This is an active participation issue; how actively participating are we?

If a homily meets an individual’s needs, time is not an issue. When a homily does not, time IS an issue.

The responsibility for the homilist is to be as prepared as possible. The responsibility for the person in the pew is to be open to the message.

 

[LilyM]

You can say a great deal in 8 minutes.

You can also spend an hour saying nothing.

Which of course is why Bible and Catechism are each condensed to a convenient 2 or 3 pages. What on earth are God and the Church thinking expecting us to have attention spans that are greater than that of the common gnat!

Children can and do sit still for classes at school that last far longer than eight minutes - preceded and succeeded usually by sitting still for other classes that also last far longer than eight minutes. We should expect no less of parishioners and the homily.

 

[FAB]

You have been given an extremely valuable gift – a block of 15-20 minutes of precious time for proclaiming the Word of God, catechizing the faithful, and attracting those outside the Church. Please, please, PLEASE don’t use this valuable resource for announcements, fund-raising, or other activities, other than preaching the word.

Last week we had a minute or so of announcements, followed by 7-ish minutes of fund-raising for a new statue of Mary to be placed on the school grounds. Finally we got about 7 minutes of homily. The homily was good (our pastor is a good preacher), but it should have been 15-20 minutes long, not just 7 minutes, in order to do justice to the readings.

Actually a good homily should only be 8-10 min long. The length doesn’t make a good homily.
Dcn. Frank

 

[Alex2008]

You have been given an extremely valuable gift – a block of 15-20 minutes of precious time for proclaiming the Word of God, catechizing the faithful, and attracting those outside the Church. Please, please, PLEASE don’t use this valuable resource for announcements, fund-raising, or other activities, other than preaching the word.

Last week we had a minute or so of announcements, followed by 7-ish minutes of fund-raising for a new statue of Mary to be placed on the school grounds. Finally we got about 7 minutes of homily. The homily was good (our pastor is a good preacher), but it should have been 15-20 minutes long, not just 7 minutes, in order to do justice to the readings.

According to most studies, the average american attention span has dropped from 12 minutes to 5 minutes in the last 10 years. 7-8 minutes, if done well would seem to be on target. If you have never stood before an audience and given a 7, 8, or 20 minute speech, it is dificult to judge how long a homily should be. When in the seminary, i was taught to aim for 10 minutes or less, and we were taught to judge the reception of the listeners. If the natives were getting restless at 5 minutes, it was time to wrap it up!

 

[Brendan_64]

We divide the announcements and homily at our church. The homily is exactly that. We have the announcements at the end of Mass, including sometimes a lay person talking about our encouraging attendance at the latest fundraiser. It works well!

We do exactly that as well in our parish here in the UK. I assumed that that was the norm. It certainly seems to be the norm in most of the churches (in different parishes) that I have visited around here.

I agree, the homily is definitely not the time for announcements. The homily should be used to preach a message based on the contents of the Gospel read at that Mass (supported by the 1st and 2nd readings).

 

[Lapey]

Actually a good homily should only be 8-10 min long. The length doesn’t make a good homily.
Dcn. Frank

Nor does it mean a homily is bad if it is over the “time limit”. I agree, length doesn’t make a good homily, just because it is a short message doesn’t mean it is a good one.

 

[FAB]

Nor does it mean a homily is bad if it is over the “time limit”. I agree, length doesn’t make a good homily, just because it is a short message doesn’t mean it is a good one.

This is true.

 

[Angel_Bradford]

In formation for the diaconate we are hammered with the 8 minute rule.

We are told time and again that homily should never be more than 8 minutes.

But neither should the time after the Gospel be used for announcements or fund raising, or anything BUT the homily.

We were hammered with 10 minutes and that included reading the Gospel.

 

[triumphguy]

Which of course is why Bible and Catechism are each condensed to a convenient 2 or 3 pages. What on earth are God and the Church thinking expecting us to have attention spans that are greater than that of the common gnat!

Children can and do sit still for classes at school that last far longer than eight minutes - preceded and succeeded usually by sitting still for other classes that also last far longer than eight minutes. We should expect no less of parishioners and the homily.

Don’t shoot the messenger - I’m just being a good aspirant as Lapey knows. I’ll probably go for 20 minutes when given the chance! But we’re taught, nay have it beaten into us that 8 minutes is the optimum.

Children can and do sit still for classes at school that last far longer than eight minutes - preceded and succeeded usually by sitting still for other classes that also last far longer than eight minutes. We should expect no less of parishioners and the homily.

So we should read the catechism holus bolus in a homily just to give everyone a foretaste of heaven

I teach high school, and the classes are 84 minutes, so I know kids can sit. But I don;t read or lecture for 84 minutes. Class is broken up and energized by using different teaching strategies including class discussion, group work and student presentations.

I’m not sure we want to do that in a homily…

 

[Urn]

Actually a good homily should only be 8-10 min long. The length doesn’t make a good homily.
Dcn. Frank

Naw. It all depends on the homilist, his preparation, his intrinsic ability to preach and most of all, the Holy Spirit.

Man-made rules like the one you suggest simply aren’t part of what is a good or bad homily.

 

[Urn]

During formation you must comply with the guidelines of the program. Do your best to go through the process just like your formatters ask. But when you are ordained and are assigned to a parish, remember that the Holy Spirit is in charge and through your pastor He will give you more guidance.

The goal should be to prepare a message, not stick to the clock. Sometimes my homily is 8 minutes, sometimes it is 18; I’ve been know to give a 25 minute homily rarely. The people and your pastor will let you know if you prepared properly and followed the HS or not, that I can assure you.

This is one rule of thumb you should follow, for every minute of your homily there should be at least an hour of preparation.

As far as the OP’s point, I agree with it whole heartedly, many pastors feel the need to campaign for money to build a building or whatever project they may want at this time. This is sacred time, not fund raising time. A neighboring parish pastor is in the process of building a parish hall for meetings and CCD and every time we go there we hear about the fundraising and how much more they need. He got quite a few complaints about his homilies being about fundraising so now he “updates” the parish after the closing prayer, so you get a 10 minute update at the end of Mass.

This should probably be the rule and not the arbitrary 8 minute thingy.

There is a deacon in a neighboring parish. Like most deacons around here he doesn’t preach too often, but when he does, he is riveting. He’s not the sort that is a born storyteller either. I asked him about his secret and he said it was all about preparation and listening to God during that preparation.

 

[DaveBj]

Which of course is why Bible and Catechism are each condensed to a convenient 2 or 3 pages. What on earth are God and the Church thinking expecting us to have attention spans that are greater than that of the common gnat!

Children can and do sit still for classes at school that last far longer than eight minutes - preceded and succeeded usually by sitting still for other classes that also last far longer than eight minutes. We should expect no less of parishioners and the homily.

THANK you, LileM!!!

Actually a good homily should only be 8-10 min long. The length doesn’t make a good homily.
Dcn. Frank

On the other hand, when the chocolate cake is really good, I want two pieces, not just one. Extend the analogy.

(And I don’t want to have to eat a dish of spinach just to get to the cake.)

 

[FAB]

Naw. It all depends on the homilist, his preparation, his intrinsic ability to preach and most of all, the Holy Spirit.

Man-made rules like the one you suggest simply aren’t part of what is a good or bad homily.

Actually it is vatican guidlines that homilies should only be 8-10 min long. They do need to be well prepared and properly delivered. Both priest and deacons are taught this in formation.
As my ordinary has says, paraphasing, it’s alright to be guided by the spirit, but it’s imprtant to go to the library. His meaning is that we are inspired and guided by the Holy Spirit, but that includes proper preparation.

In formation we were taught that it takes 10-12 hours to prepare a good 8 min homily. At first I didn’t believe this, but after now doing homilies, that prepartion is often not enough.

Dcn Frank

 

[tafan]

It would be interesting to know where that 8 minute rule comes from? Seems odd that it would be viewed as a universal standard. Some homilists for a variety of reasons are difficult to listen to for 8 minutes. Some can peach for 30+ minutes and you want more.

Maybe that 8 minute rule need to be reviewed?

I don’t think the 8 minute rule would be an absolute, just a guideline. And it seems rather reasonable to me.

As to someone who can preach for 30+ minutes and you want more: that is great, have that priest or deacon do it in adult education classes. A mass, in normal circumstances, is not the time for a 30 minute sermon, no matter how well it is done. 30 minute homilies, very well said, every week (heaven forbid on week day masses), would lead to one thing: the vast majority of parishioners would find that to be the highlight of the mass, when it is really one of the least important parts of the mass.

Homilies are to help us understand the day’s readings, nothing more, nothing less. They are not intended to be the primary means of our Catholic formation.

Besides that: very few 15-20-30 minute homilies are of sufficient quality to keep peoples attention that long anyway.
The 8 minute rule seems quite reasonable to me for Sunday masses. For daily mass, I would prefer the homily to be no more than a couple of minutes. Many of us have work to get to and busy schedules.

 

[tafan]

THANK you, LileM!!!

On the other hand, when the chocolate cake is really good, I want two pieces, not just one. Extend the analogy.

(And I don’t want to have to eat a dish of spinach just to get to the cake.)

But the cake being really good does not excuse gluttonous behavior of having two pieces instead of one. And desiring those two pieces of chocolate cake, when the main course (which is infinitely delicious) has yet to be served is rather short sighted.

 

[Boulder257]

Does anyone check out the Pope’s daily homilies? They are less than 8 minutes and each one is absolutely powerful.

 

[DaveBj]

Does anyone check out the Pope’s daily homilies? They are less than 8 minutes and each one is absolutely powerful.

And I’ll bet he does NOT do announcements or fund-raising presentations (to get back to the original topic of the thread).

 

[nickybr38]

I heard about this woman who approached our priest and told him point blank to make his homilies shorter. She informed him that he needed to stop quoting Scripture because it took up too much time and was unnecessary.

He retorted to her that if she wanted Mass to be shorter he could cut other things, like the music which is unnecessarily long, the blessing of the children, the hand holding, etc. etc.

Hehehheeh.

Sometimes I think we should stop telling priests what to do and should focus more on supporting them. There are a billion people approaching them negatively every day. They need more people who are supportive and loving.