An ugly ugly problem - please advise

[annetta123]

I see this problem as the key to everything. It almost doesn’t matter what the brother is doing at this point. Even if he weren’t living there, this is just not right.

If they want the kids, they get you too. To allow this to go on week after week, you and your husband are just enabling this dysfunction to continue. At some point, your children will be able to notice what is going on and will ask why mommy is never around at grandma and grandpa’s? The grandparents, if asked, may fill your children’s heads with untruths about the situation. You have no idea what they will tell them. If they are older when this happens, they may actually start to believe it and resent you.

As others have suggested, end it now.

Pray that I can see the charitable solution clearly, or that God will intervene some way to sort things out, thanks.

 

[annetta123]

You do have a problem and I am sorry for everyone. My personal way of dealing with things, if at all possible, is to do the offender the courtesy of speaking directly, kindly and as quickly as I can with them privately. This is the way I would want to be treated and I believe it is the fair way when dealing with adults, even if it will be difficult. The situation needs to be dealt with swiftly and your children need you to act. ** Invite the Holy Spirit to give you the wisdom you need to go forward and move on**. When children are in danger we have to place that ahead of all else, God blessed you with them and He wants you to protect them. Even if nothing else went wrong, the idea of two young children watching a grown man drink himself into a stupor in front if them is wrong. My first move would be to discuss everything you wrote with the offender and see where to go from there.

God bless you.

Thanks. I already know that there is an attitude prevalent when I’m not there that mommy’s rules go out the window, you’re on granny’s turf now, so to speak. Actually even when I’m there come to think of it, I remember once telling her not to give them something and I stood there like a lemon telling her about five times “no”, getting up and saying that we were leaving, and being completely ignored and talked over, as in, when you’re in our house, your rules no longer apply. And I was totally spineless because when they wouldn’t listen to me and it got to a point where I either fall out with them or sit back down
I sat back down, thinking it was the charitable thing to do. God help me.

 

[annetta123]

It doesn’t matter – the drinking problem alone is enough for you to refuse to let your children visit there without you or your husband.

This is a HUGE problem, as bad as their son’s drinking. They’re acting like they have something to hide. And if they do, it can’t be anything good.

You and your husband absolutely must grow a backbone and put an end to this. Tell them they are welcome to visit the children at your house, and/or you’ll bring the children over when at least one of you can stay. You’ve got two extremely good reasons to worry about your childrens’ safety there.

Yes, I need to pray for my husband’s support on this because at the moment as regards his parents I’m on my own. His communication with them is almost zero, and has been for years, so the thought of having to enter into any kind of honest real talk with them - it’s like he just isn’t equipped to do so, in his defence. He would be starting from scratch with them, if that makes any sense, as far as I can see there is very little love or concern between them at all, which is why I find it so odd that they have leapt on my children as if they were 2 Prozac tablets that could solve their problems.

 

[EasterJoy]

Your husband’s mom is not the only one who is ignoring her responsibility in order to avoid conflict and keep up a pretense. You and your husband are helping her, so don’t put all the fault on his family. You two have bones in this soup, too.

Have your husband talk to them directly. If they want him to “keep their secrets” from his mom, they need to throw him a bone and clear out when his kids are around. Anybody who takes care of your children deserves to know up front what sort of other people are drifting around the house. Your children don’t need to be around drunkenness or hangovers. (Please! Is this not a no-brainer?)

If you and your husband help these fellows “keep their secrets”, I don’t see how you’re any different than anyone else who is sweeping this problem under the rug. If your husband’s relatives think their behavior is OK, then they can stop hiding it, or else they can go all the way and do their own part to keep their own secrets hidden from those they don’t want to know about it. It is up to them. There is no reason you ought to put more on the table for their privacy than they do.

He can also tell them that if they lie once, the jig is up, and that is only if he thinks they’re remotely likely to be reliable. If not, it is time for somebody to tell the truth. After all, what is worse…to call the bomb squad and have a big to-do, or to just wait around until the place goes up? And who is going to be there when it does? Get real, here.

 

[EasterJoy]

Thanks. I already know that there is an attitude prevalent when I’m not there that mommy’s rules go out the window, you’re on granny’s turf now, so to speak. Actually even when I’m there come to think of it, I remember once telling her not to give them something and I stood there like a lemon telling her about five times “no”, getting up and saying that we were leaving, and being completely ignored and talked over, as in, when you’re in our house, your rules no longer apply. And I was totally spineless because when they wouldn’t listen to me and it got to a point where I either fall out with them or sit back down
I sat back down, thinking it was the charitable thing to do. God help me.

God has help for you.,…you live in 2012, not 1880. You’re not alone when the problem gets too big for you. Go see your pastor, go see a counselor, and get some strategies to deal with this. You are not alone, this mistake is not something you cannot recover from, your participation in this dysfunction is not a foregone conclusion, and you can do it!!

 

[annetta123]

But honestly…visiting a brothel is VERY different than having anything to do with children.
And, unless your information is for sure coming from a reliable source then I wouldn’t believe information about someone unless you know for sure it’s true, just in case it’s gossip.

Yeah, I’m sorry they linked together in my mind, as I should have explained in my OP, I’m just extremely paranoid at the moment following this harrowing case of a 5 year old being abducted over here. So many people saying “we never thought this would happen here” and police on TV telling us how vigilant parents need to be. It scared me.

 

[annetta123]

I would freak out if my inlaws said they didn’t want to be around my kids unless I wasn’t around. I would just say, why don’t you come over after church and we’ll spend the day as a family. We consider the weekend to be family time and that includes our children. Perhaps even your kids’ uncle can come too (if he’s sober and right) and you can spend time as a family and maybe he will find he prefers that to brothels. (Do they even have these anymore? You’d think all the girls who give it up for free would have put them out of business!)

Unfortunately they are a roaring trade in our local city, and if only it weren’t true but we have had it all confirmed to us and triple checked. It’s true I’m afraid.

 

[annetta123]

I think you’re being a little silly and judgemental on this. Just because thier son visits brothels does not make him a pedophile. And maybe the parents don’t like visiting the kids when you’re around because maybe they just don’t like you? Ever thought of that?
Maybe they love their son (your husband) and his kids but not you. Don;t be offended. Some people just don’t like some ppl just because… No reason… Just because. I think you know this and you’re using the lifestyle of their other son, as an excuse to be spiteful and keep the kids away from them as some form of revenge for not liking you?
And now you’re coming here looking or some vindication for your spitefulness.
Maybe you have feelings for your borther in-law and you’re jealous that he is seeing other women?

Wowee. Did I catch you on a bad day or something? Maybe you didn’t mean your post to sound so harsh but this is one type of answer I have never received on these boards. I’m done here.

 

[EasterJoy]

I think you’re being a little silly and judgemental on this. Just because thier son visits brothels does not make him a pedophile. And maybe the parents don’t like visiting the kids when you’re around because maybe they just don’t like you? Ever thought of that?
Maybe they love their son (your husband) and his kids but not you. Don;t be offended. Some people just don’t like some ppl just because… No reason… Just because. I think you know this and you’re using the lifestyle of their other son, as an excuse to be spiteful and keep the kids away from them as some form of revenge for not liking you?
And now you’re coming here looking or some vindication for your spitefulness.
Maybe you have feelings for your borther in-law and you’re jealous that he is seeing other women?

He doesn’t have to be a pedophile. He is actively abusing alcohol and using women like objects to be bought and sold. He’s not the kind of guy that ought to be at all involved in the rearing of children. I wouldn’t let him work as a janitor at a gradeschool, not if he were going to be there during school hours. No way.

This statement: Maybe they love their son (your husband) and his kids but not you. Don;t be offended…What?!? Yeah, you don’t give too figs about me, but sure, take my kids and be their pseudo Mom every weekend. Hmmm, how do I put this? NOT.

That isn’t spiteful. It is not good for kids to spend a lot of time with people who don’t love and value their parents. Why would you put them in that sort of position, and divide the loyalties of the family? That would be very unwise. Even if it didn’t bother you, it would still not be a position I would have wanted my parents to put me in, even if it were for Grandma and Grandpa.

 

[Allegra]

Wowee. Did I catch you on a bad day or something? Maybe you didn’t mean your post to sound so harsh but this is one type of answer I have never received on these boards. I’m done here.

Is there any change that Latin Rite is your brother-in-law?

 

[SMHW]

why is your huband reluctant to “put his foot down” knowing his brother is an alcoholic binge drinker? He thinks drugs are worse? He needs to get to Al-Anon and understand what his brother’s alcoholism is doing to the family.

I have no idea if the brother is a significant danger to and/or bad influence on the children.

I can’t really know how big a problem the in-laws are.

I do think the lack of agreement between the OP and her husband is a huge problem and I don’t see much chance of dealing with the other problems until the husband-wife problem is resolved.

 

[Viki63]

OP,
I used to be a people pleaser too. I never wanted to hurt anyone’s feelings or rock the boat. I took all kinds of nonsense from relatives.
Having children changed me. My children’s wellbeing was so important to me that I learned to stand up to people and demand whatever my kids needed. My son now says, “hearing your voice on the phone scares people.”
I think if you focus on the wellbeing of your children, you will see your path clear to what you need to do.
I would just go with the kids for a couple of hours when they go over – I believe your in-laws come and grab the kids and put them in their car, but you could get to them first and get in your own car, or go along with them.
Ideally your husband will step up and be on your side, if he won’t it sounds like he has a personality disorder or needs serious counseling regarding his parents. But if he won’t you will have to do it. You know this is not a good situation.
Or do you want to wait until your daughter comes and says that uncle touched her inappropriately? If he’s into brothels, he could easily be into porn – that’s a slippery slope.

 

[LightBound]

I think you’re being a little silly and judgemental on this. Just because thier son visits brothels does not make him a pedophile. And maybe the parents don’t like visiting the kids when you’re around because maybe they just don’t like you? Ever thought of that?
Maybe they love their son (your husband) and his kids but not you. Don;t be offended. Some people just don’t like some ppl just because… No reason… Just because. I think you know this and you’re using the lifestyle of their other son, as an excuse to be spiteful and keep the kids away from them as some form of revenge for not liking you?
And now you’re coming here looking or some vindication for your spitefulness.
Maybe you have feelings for your borther in-law and you’re jealous that he is seeing other women?

Excuse me, but WHO do you think you are? You come on here insulting her because she’s concerned about grandparents who insist on seeing their grandchildren without a parent present. On top of that, there’s an alcoholic brother-in-law who frequents prostitutes living in the home. Those two things don’t raise a red flag for you? To top it off, you ACCUSE the OP of having romantic feelings for her brother-in-law and being jealous he’s having illicit sex with hookers? What is your problem??? Did your account get hacked and someone’s trolling with it? That would be the only appropriate explanation for some who calls themselves a Traditional Catholic and has a post like yours!

 

[TheRealJuliane]

Yes, I need to pray for my husband’s support on this because at the moment as regards his parents I’m on my own. His communication with them is almost zero, and has been for years, so the thought of having to enter into any kind of honest real talk with them - it’s like he just isn’t equipped to do so, in his defence. He would be starting from scratch with them, if that makes any sense, as far as I can see there is very little love or concern between them at all,** which is why I find it so odd that they have leapt on my children as if they were 2 Prozac tablets that could solve their problems**.

Another red flag. Inappropriate. As is the “you’re in Granny’s house now, your mother’s rules don’t apply.” It’s one thing to give children a little treat or let them stay up an hour later, but this attitude of, “All of the former rules are now gone,” is not a good sign.

 

[EasterJoy]

Another red flag. Inappropriate. As is the “you’re in Granny’s house now, your mother’s rules don’t apply.” It’s one thing to give children a little treat or let them stay up an hour later, but this attitude of, “All of the former rules are now gone,” is not a good sign.

Grandma only gets her own rules if the child’s Mom and Dad say so. That is a trust call on their part.

 

[AbideWithMe]

Did your account get hacked and someone’s trolling with it? That would be the only appropriate explanation for some who calls themselves a Traditional Catholic and has a post like yours!

I wondered this myself. That post from LatinRite was bizarre. LatinRite, you owe the OP an apology.

 

[KostyaJMJ]

He is visiting a brothel? I thought that the brick and mortar brothel was another victim of competition from e-commerce. I am guessing that this establishment has found a way to retain customers in these tough economic times by offering a little extra. I would guess either hard drugs or a homey ambiance. It could be a homey ambiance but I wouldn’t risk it.

In addition to the problems with drugs I would also be concerned about he might not pay for services rendered and get a visit from the collections department. No way I would let him around my children.

I work in Bahrain where prostitution is a very big problem. So far I’ve had one coworker have a nervous breakdown and attempt suicide after learning he slept with a HIV positive girl. Another got a beating from a pimp after not paying a girl. It was scary for me and I know it would be extremely terrifying for a child.

 

[iloveangels]

Hi, I’m a regular poster to these boards but have such a horrible problem that has just arisen in my life, I am too embarrassed to go by my regular username so created this account to address it. If I’m not allowed to create a new account for situations such as this, apologies to mods and please delete if necessary.

…
Thanks and God bless

Change your habits. Figure out some other way for your children to spend time with their grandparents away from your brother in law. You don’t owe anyone an explanation.

For instance, get your kids signed up to a gym for kids, or a swimming lesson or something on saturdays. $$$ an issue? Set up a play date with the neighbors for FREE. Say they’re getting bigger, and they are. Now you can go out for supper Saturday night with the kids and the grandparents instead. Ooops, Sorry Gramps, schedule’s changed. So sad, too bad, that’s how it IS.

Set up a few chances to go to a museum or something on sunday afternoon etc. so everyone gets face time. You don’t owe anyone any explanations. You don’t have to prove anything’s happening to change your plans. They’re YOUR kids.

JUST DO IT. NOW. They’re YOUR kids and YOU are legally responsible for them. YOU owe them this.

BTW, if you don’t get control of this situation before your kids become teenagers, you’re going to think you died and went to hell already. Just grit your teeth and do it… EAsier now than later.

 

[latin_rite]

That’s an awful lot of assuming, LR - and ironically, even the very thing you accuse her of - being judgmental. You and I don’t know her well enough to judge her intentions or motivation - we can only go by what she has said. Maybe, just maybe she really is vexed by the fact that the brother is a binge drinker and visits brothels. Maybe she really is just concerned about being a good parent and caring about where and under what circumstances her kids go and stay places. Given what she has said, I would definitely have reservations as well.

Well why judge the Grandparents? Why are they to blame for the sins of their adult son? Seems like she is using the actions of their Adult son to punish her parent inlaws. She is just looking for excuses. And thats going by what she said. She fears her Brother in-law might be a pedophile because he drinks and goes to brothels. Granted not a great role model. But not a automatic pedophile as we all know pedophiles come in all shapes and sizes and usually gain access to children by building trust with the parents. Not acting in ways that they know would put them in an un-favourable light with them.

 

[Allegra]

Well why judge the Grandparents? Why are they to blame for the sins of their adult son? Seems like she is using the actions of their Adult son to punish her parent inlaws. She is just looking for excuses. And thats going by what she said. She fears her Brother in-law might be a pedophile because he drinks and goes to brothels. Granted not a great role model. But not a automatic pedophile as we all know pedophiles come in all shapes and sizes and usually gain access to children by building trust with the parents. Not acting in ways that they know would put them in an un-favourable light with them.

You are not seriously going to try and justify that completely rediculous post? Why judge the grandparents? Because they want to have their grandkids all day, without their mother, with a man in the house who is a very questionable example at best. That’s like saying, “Why judge the grandparents just because they’ve let radon build up in their basement?” or “Why judge the grandparents because they happen to have a vicious pitbull that menaces small children?” It doesn’t matter whether or not they caused the failings of their son! The point is, he is there, around her kids, without her supervision! The OP seems perfectly happy to let the grandparents spend time with the kids in her home or on a day trip. She isn’t punishing anyone and unless I’m missing something, grandparents don’t have an inalienable right to keep their grandkids at their own home every weekend, without the supervision of their parents. A person that doesn’t “judge” the safety and well-being of any environment her children are spending time is called “a negligent parent”.