Anababtist married to Catholic and need some insight

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Shlemele

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Ok let me present the situation I find myself in and maybe some of you here can shed some light on the subject for me;

I am Anabaptist, Mennonite to be exact. My wife is Catholic. Before we were married I told her that I support her faith and I have gone to Mass several times with her since being married. We were married in the Catholic church and support each others beliefs. Well before we were married we knew there would be some issues to iron out. The only one that has continued to be a problem is the issue of our children. We want children, and we want to raise them in the church but before we were married I let my wife know that I would not want the children to be baptizes Roman Catholic at birth. If they decide to become Catholic I am 100% behind them, but I was baptized as a young man and it is an experience that helped form me into the man I am today. Before being married my mother in law called and asked a priest if infant baptism was still enforced, his answer was yes and no. Well my wife agreed and we went on with the marriage.

Now three years after we are married my wife tells me she has changed her mind and wants to baptize any children we have at birth. I am adamantly against this (not that the children be baptized but that they be baptized so young) and should she do behind my back I would consider divorce. Well in talking to my best friend he told me that he knows of Roman Catholic churches that so not baptize but rather dedicate the children much like we do in my church.

Long story short, does anyone know if it is possible to have the child dedicated and not baptized? As long as the decision of baptism is left to the child I am happy. My baptism was an important decision and when I look at how my family vs. my wifes I really don’t think i want my child baptized just for show. (of the 3 children in the family my wife is the only practicing catholic and only participate in church to make the parents happy).

I know this is a hot issue for many but pleas don’t flame, I just need to know if anyone has heard of what my friend was describing.
 
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Shlemele:
I know this is a hot issue for many but pleas don’t flame, I just need to know if anyone has heard of what my friend was describing.
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Someone might have commented that infant baptism is analogous to a dedication service, in that it is the parents who promise to raise their child in the faith.

All Catholic Churches baptize; there is no such thing as a “dedication-only” ritual.
 
There is no such thing as a “dedication” service. There are all sorts of ways a more mature person can openly dedicate themselves to God. Baptism is real because God’s grace is real. The Holy Spirit actually does a work in a person’s life. I would not be afraid of having your chlld receive God’s grace. He/she can decide later whether or not he/she wishes to love or deny God in her/his life but now you have the chance to show that love to your child by having him or her baptized. Help your children see that beoming one with Christ is not a bad or evil thing. Simply because you waited to follow Christ until later in life I hope you reconsider your determination to try to make your child do the same thing.

I commend you for asking the question here and pray for your conversion.

Dan L
 
I hope that you wouldn’t divorce your wife if she baptized your kids behind your back…though baptism should always be a joyful public celebration. By public, I mean priest, parents, godparents, and maybe some other friends and family. Catholic2003 is right - it’s not just a dedication ritual. Baptism is the means by which a person is entered into the Church. The parents agree to raise the child in the Catholic Church - go to Mass every week, teach them how to love and serve God, etc.

Have you ever thought about joining the Catholic Church? That would make it easier on your wife and it would help you understand the things we believe in, and it would probably make it easier for you to raise your kids in the Church. God bless you!

my Mother my Confidence,
Corinne
 
I did conciter joining the Catholic church. I went to a few masses with my wife before we were married and it’s just not for me. I support my wifes faith, it is what works for her but for me.

My reservation on infant babtism isn’t that I would choose to keep the child from being raised in the church, the child would be raised with knowledge of both faith traditions and support. I just know if I had been raised in the Catholic church I would have left it all together long ago. If we are able to have children (might be an issue) I will bring them up in the catholic (lower case c on there for the universal church) church. The child will learn of God and his love, scripture, ect. When the child is old enough he/she can find the faith tradition the works best for him/her. They will go to Mass and to my church services. I have heard people say that babtism is just like a protestant baby dedication, if so then why is is that some are making it out that I am trying to keep my child from knowledge of God, if this is the case your telling me nobody outside the Roman Catholic church is saved. I am trying to find a way to preserve both my wifes and my own faith traditions, if that is not possible in the Catholic church well then I’m spinning my wheels.
 
Shlemele, Please note that baptism doesn’t have quite the same meaning and connotation in our faith tradition as it does in yours. I would say that our sacrament of confirmation comes closer to your understanding of the purpose and effect of baptism. It is the sacrament of confirmation that confers full membership in the church, and confirmation is postponed until the child has reached the age of reason and can make an intelligent decision about something so important. Therefore, I suggest a compromise: why not allow your children be baptized as infants or young children, but allow them to decide later whether or when they wish to be confirmed in the Catholic church? For no child can be brought up in the Catholic faith unless he or she is baptized.
 
The other thing to consider is just what happens if us Catholics have this Baptism thing right and it REALLY does do what we say it does. If so, then NOT having your children baptized could potentially be a horrible thing for them.

Kris
 
…i too married someone outside the catholic faith, you have less than the rest of the story about catholic baptism… if you were married in the catholic church, and were paying attention to the wedding ceremony (and i am assuming it was conducted from the text of marriages provided to the priest to preform the marriage)… then you heard him ask that you or spouse had no objection to the children being raised catholic… you then agreed (because you said i do) to the question…

now, that being said… the infant will not understand the baptism, it’s a rite of christian of Inhiation, so you will still have plenty of time to ignore the promise you made on the wedding day to raise your children in the catholic faith…

…i respectfully suggest if you want any kind of harmony in the future, that you pick your battle over something that doesn’t matter technically speaking to an anabaptist… you will have ample time to disuade your child from the church of christ…

…if you haven’t had children yet, you may not be too late to undo what you have done…

pardon my bluntness, but i have been where you are about to go… and i promise you… you don’t want to go there…:cool:

IMHO…

Peace:thumbsup:

…
 
Shlemeel,

May I suggest you download the “Pillar of Truth, Pillar of Fire” from the main website that this forum is on? You need to know more about what Catholocism (Capital C) is about and this is one very small way of getting a better understanding of the Church.

A quick perusal of the page on Sacraments at catholic.com/library/sacraments.asp will give you plenty to read about and perhaps see what your wife is trying to say.

I have to say that as I get older, the more I know and understand my Catholic Faith and I have to say that I wasn’t a “slouch” when it came to knowledge when I got married 26 years ago to a man who was just coming back from Agnosticism to his Lutheran faith. I say this because perhaps your wife is learning more and is having a hard time explaining it to you - we are not all Apologists (I don’t think anyone is “born” that way - it is very much learned).

Read the tracts on Baptism an the other sacraments. Attend an RCIA class in your wifes Parish - you need not be wanting to join the Catholic Church by attending these classes.

Brenda V.
 
Shlemeel,

There are many problems that arise when people from diffrent faith backgrounds marry. This is an unfortunate result of human sin and the sad state of the division of the church. Whatever happens regarding the issue of baptism, I am sad to say the probability is that another issue will arise. This is not a matter of obstinance on the part of either you or your wife, but a matter of deeply ingrained beliefs.

In short you must decide if this is really the battle that you want to fight. Peter gave us some advice concerning this when he addressed husbands and wives in his first letter:

1Pe 3:8 ESV *Finally, all of you, have unity of mind, sympathy, brotherly love, a tender heart, and a humble mind. *

The Lord bless you and keep you, and I am sure that by his grace, and with humility and love that all things might be resolved according to His plan for your lives.
 
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Shlemele:
I did conciter joining the Catholic church. I went to a few masses with my wife before we were married and it’s just not for me. I support my wifes faith, it is what works for her but for me.

I just know if I had been raised in the Catholic church I would have left it all together long ago. .
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So why did you Marry a catholic woman??? I see almost insurmountable problems ahead for you if you have children.
The way you want to raise your children will almost certainly insure that

A; They will come from a broken family
B They will have no faith to call ther own.
 
Schlemele --I am a Catholic convert from Anabaptism. I fully understand your objections to infant baptism–they were mine as well. I don’t have much advice, but my prayers are with you.

I would note the following, however: The Anabaptist understanding of baptism as the sign of an adult profession of faith and repentence for past sins IS NOT the Catholic understanding of baptism, at least not essentially. (If it were, then infant baptism would obviously be wrong and invalid…rather, the Church teaches that baptism–among other things-- is initiation into the very life of God.) As you dialogue with your wife about how to raise your children, you need to understand this crucial difference in how you each think of baptism, otherwise you will be speaking past each other.

Rather than try to explain the Church’s teaching here,
I would encourage you read from the Catechism of the Catholic Church about the nature of baptism as the Church celebrates it, and also the nature of the sacraments themselves. The combined Catholics sacraments of reconciliation and confirmation actually dovetail much more closely the Anabaptist practice of baptism.

My very best wishes.
 
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estesbob:
So why did you Marry a catholic woman??? I see almost insurmountable problems ahead for you if you have children.
The way you want to raise your children will almost certainly insure that

A; They will come from a broken family
B They will have no faith to call ther own.
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Estesbob has a good point. My husband was raised by a theistic but non-Christian Dad (who was brought up as a muslim) and a Catholic mom. He was raised as a Catholic, but because his father held different beliefs, he had a hard time choosing anything. He was essentially agnostic for a long time. For him, choosing any religion was like going against one of his parents since they were not both of the same faith. He did not want to choose between them, so just didn’t practice any type of faith for a long time.

A second example is that of my friend whose parents were non-practicing hindus when she was growing up. They also encouraged her to explore different religions and just choose what works best for her. She is now an agnostic. Meanwhile, her parents have recommitted themselves to their hinduism and keep encouraging her to practice SOMETHING, ANYTHING. I think this just further encourages her agnosticism. I think it is because it sends the message that it’s not the truth of the religion that matters, it’s just the idea of practicing some type of religion. This just sends a confusing message, so the children just throw up their hands and say “why bother?”
 
One thing I would advise is that trying to expose children to both faiths sounds good in theory but becomes very hard in practice. You and your wife need to be active enough to have a presence that the child would naturally have a network of friends to sit near at Sunday School/CCD etc. If they are at one church far more than the other why bother with the second one?

If you were to try doing both make sure you live near both churches, why lose extra time driving? Also be up front with what you are attempting so there are no surprises for you or the education leaders at either congregation.

In my experience I loved the idea of an interchurch family where we could go to Mass each week, CCD and still have a weekly presence in my wife’s church either through Sunday School or Bible study.

My son put an end to that. It became a nightmare for him and now we almost never go to the Presbyterian church. My wife never was a big attender before I tried to get her more involved so we go to Mass and she stays home with our preschooler and toddler. They will start weekly Mass at kindergarten/first grade.

There are so many issues for each mixed marriage and I would strongly recommend against them. However you are married and in our view sacramentally. You need to find a way that works for you. You need to be respectful of each other and your religious leaders/congregations but keep talking and praying. There is an answer but it is going to be harder than for same faith couples.
 
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Shlemele:
I did conciter joining the Catholic church. I went to a few masses with my wife before we were married and it’s just not for me. I support my wifes faith, it is what works for her but for me.

My reservation on infant babtism isn’t that I would choose to keep the child from being raised in the church, the child would be raised with knowledge of both faith traditions and support. I just know if I had been raised in the Catholic church I would have left it all together long ago. If we are able to have children (might be an issue) I will bring them up in the catholic (lower case c on there for the universal church) church. The child will learn of God and his love, scripture, ect. When the child is old enough he/she can find the faith tradition the works best for him/her. They will go to Mass and to my church services. I have heard people say that babtism is just like a protestant baby dedication, if so then why is is that some are making it out that I am trying to keep my child from knowledge of God, if this is the case your telling me nobody outside the Roman Catholic church is saved. I am trying to find a way to preserve both my wifes and my own faith traditions, if that is not possible in the Catholic church well then I’m spinning my wheels.
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You should not have got married. Since you are married without having thought through the consequences now you must choose: Are you going to be the man and give your life for your bride or are you going to be self centered and make life miserable for the both of you? See Ephesians 5. You chose this difficult road when you decided to get married without thinking it through and without surrendering to God.

Dan L
 
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GregoryPalamas:
You should not have got married. Since you are married without having thought through the consequences now you must choose: Are you going to be the man and give your life for your bride or are you going to be self centered and make life miserable for the both of you? See Ephesians 5. You chose this difficult road when you decided to get married without thinking it through and without surrendering to God.

Dan L
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OK what I get from this post is as follows;
  1. your faith is bunk
    2 You will ruin yours and your wives lives if you don’t convert to the Roman Catholic Church
    3 You are self-centered if you want to pass on your faith to your children
This is why I can’t be Catholic. Everything is your way or the highway and yet I’m the one who is self-centerd. Ironically both her syblings nad all my Catholic friends are pretty much agnostics or buddists. They all went to mass just like my wife but fell away, they felt the church was cold and distant so went to somthing else and I don’t want that for my children.

Our confession of faith is identical, but my faith is meaningless because I don’t hold to certan docterines. Another thing I don’t understand, everyone I ask keeps telling me that Catholic babtis is different than Anababtist and it’s not a big deal. Well it is a big deal to my church. My father babtised me (he is an ordained pastor) and it was a major part in my life.

(I will continue later but I’m a bit frazzled ATM, Thinking with no children and a chasm developing between us the marrage might be over before it really begins)
 
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Shlemele:
I did conciter joining the Catholic church. I went to a few masses with my wife before we were married and it’s just not for me. I support my wifes faith, it is what works for her but for me.

My reservation on infant babtism isn’t that I would choose to keep the child from being raised in the church, the child would be raised with knowledge of both faith traditions and support. I just know if I had been raised in the Catholic church I would have left it all together long ago. If we are able to have children (might be an issue) I will bring them up in the catholic (lower case c on there for the universal church) church. The child will learn of God and his love, scripture, ect. When the child is old enough he/she can find the faith tradition the works best for him/her. They will go to Mass and to my church services. I have heard people say that babtism is just like a protestant baby dedication, if so then why is is that some are making it out that I am trying to keep my child from knowledge of God, if this is the case your telling me nobody outside the Roman Catholic church is saved. I am trying to find a way to preserve both my wifes and my own faith traditions, if that is not possible in the Catholic church well then I’m spinning my wheels.
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Hello Schlemele, In Catholicism, Baptism is not just a dedication. Baptism instills Gods grace in the child and it introduces them into The Church. There is also the remission of all sins at Baptism. To call it the same thing as a dedication is false.

A child can choose whether he wants to folllow the Catholic faith when it comes time for Confirmation. Confirmation is when the child comes forward of his own free will and recieves the sacrament.

No one is saying that all protestants are damned. There are many protestants that are saved. But it is through Baptism that we are introduced into the Church and are saved.
 
Dear Shlemele,

The fact that you are even posting questions here shows your genuine concern for your marriage and future children. You are undoubtedly a good and godly man to be discussing baptism and bringing children to the knowledge of God.

Catholics and some Protestants baptize infants to ensure that they are included in the life of Christ and for the remission of original sin. It’s important for a Catholic to know that their children are baptized and the thought of a child dying (God forbid) before being baptized is a frightening thought for a Catholic mother. Because baptism joins the child to the life of Christ, the child is strengthened against the evil of the world and the devil.
As others have mentioned here, Confirmation is the sacrament where the older child/teenager chooses their life/commitment to the Catholic faith. Confirmation is also a special ceremony where the Bishop anoints the forehead of the person being confirmed with holy oil.
It is commendable that you esteem your baptism as such a special moment of grace. I can understand how you would want your children to experience the same wonderful moment.

Please do not be discouraged. As the son of a Mennonite minister, you know that marriage is a serious commitment not taken lightly. Marriage is a sacrament. Are you and your wife praying together about matters in your married life? Since you said you do not have children yet, why not let this stressful topic rest for now and focus on building a strong, Christian marriage.

My humble suggestions are to talk with your father who is a devoted Christian pastor as well as to a priest. A priest may be better able to answer your questions about Catholicism than those of us “lay people” here.

Even though there are differences between you and your wife’s religions, there are actually a lot of similarities such as the importance of family, regular church attendance, honoring God in all aspects of life (the unborn and the elderly), charity, repentance of sins and forgiveness, honoring father and mother, the all male priesthood, large families, and a devotion to living a Christ centered life.
Good luck. I will be praying for you and your wife.:gopray:
 
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Shlemele:
I did conciter joining the Catholic church. I went to a few masses with my wife before we were married and it’s just not for me. I support my wifes faith, it is what works for her but for me.

My reservation on infant babtism isn’t that I would choose to keep the child from being raised in the church, the child would be raised with knowledge of both faith traditions and support. I just know if I had been raised in the Catholic church I would have left it all together long ago. If we are able to have children (might be an issue) I will bring them up in the catholic (lower case c on there for the universal church) church. The child will learn of God and his love, scripture, ect. When the child is old enough he/she can find the faith tradition the works best for him/her. They will go to Mass and to my church services. I have heard people say that babtism is just like a protestant baby dedication, if so then why is is that some are making it out that I am trying to keep my child from knowledge of God, if this is the case your telling me nobody outside the Roman Catholic church is saved. I am trying to find a way to preserve both my wifes and my own faith traditions, if that is not possible in the Catholic church well then I’m spinning my wheels.
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If I were you, I would seriously consider the big mistake your making. that mistake is in your perception of a “faith that is right for me”. Chirst has one Truth, NOT many, and whether or not it is right for you or anyone else is insignificant. It[the Truth] just IS.

I am not going to beat you over the head, but I recommend that you do a little bit, er, a lot more research on the Catholic Church, and yours for that matter[so as to make an informed decision], than “going to a few masses”. You can go to as many masses as you like, but if you don’t understand the mass, then it is fruitless.
I could go to 100 seminars on astro-physics, and not learn a darn thing, since I don’t know anything about astro-physics to begin with.

I would suggest that you go through RCIA to at least gain a basic understanding of the Catholic Church, it is not binding, just go and learn. Have your wife go through with you as well, for that matter, it is always nice to get a refresher.

For your marital stability sake, and your children’s sake, you need to make this journey. Do not give them up so easily for your pride’s sake. Pride, the deadliest of the seven deadlies, is the preventer of ALL good things.

Piety, Study, Action.

All these suggestions are out of Love for you and your family.
Peace of the Lord be with you, and may God grant you wisdom in your studies.
 
Sclemele,

Whether your faith is bunk or not is not mine to tell. That you have made a serious mistake in judgment by not taking faith in Christ seriously in your marriage is quite obvious. You are now talking about divorce.

Again the issue isn’t whether your baptism is valid or not. The issue is whether or not you are going to be a man and do as St. Paul instructed in Ephesians 5. Men are to give their lives for their wives. Until you are willing to do that you will not make a good husband nor a good father.

I was a United Methodist Pastor for 27 years. I’ve seen in hundreds of times. People would not surrender all of their lives to Christ in preparation for marriage. They wound up divorced and then they’d come to me. In private invaribly the man would admit that he was very foolish not to either consider faith before marriage and then compounded the sin by divorcing a good woman who loved him.

I spoke to many who were preparing for their third relationship and lamented privately that they should have had enough sense to remain with their first wife.

St. Paul says that marriage between a husband and wife is a metaphor for Christ marriage of His Church. In that relationship the Bride is to respect her husband. That is all that is expected of the Bride. The Groom is to die for his bride. You haven’t indicated that level of committment at all. That is a shame. Are you going to do it or are you going to wimp out?

Dan L
 
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