Anababtist married to Catholic and need some insight

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Many of the responses here are extremely unhelpful (and uncharitable) to his guy. He is asking a specific question, and many are getting on here ripping into him, making judgments about his decision making skills. No one here can fully know his circumstances now, or when he got married. In fact it sounds like he and his wife made an agreement when they got married (granted she should not have made that agreement) that she is now backing out of. The priest who married them apparently didn’t do much of job with pre-cana either. Try to address his post instead what your assumptions about him.
Code:
 Shlemele, the short answer is no, there is no catholic equivalent of a “dedication only” service for babies. I don’t know who told you baptism is no big deal for Catholics, but they are wrong. It is supremely important to Catholics. You said that every Catholic you know is pretty much fallen away (with the possible exception of your wife) so how would they know anyway? I am sorry all the Catholic witnesses you have in your life are poor witnesses to the faith (or witnesses against it actually), but please don’t judge Catholicism based on them. Find out about the true teachings of the church before you determine you don’t want it for your kids or yourself. When you only get bits and pieces from fallen away Catholics I can understand how silly it looks. However, when you get the full story it all fits together and makes sound, logical sense.

 Anyway, as a couple other people pointed out, Baptism in the Catholic Church does have a different meaning than for most Protestants. The sacrament of Confirmation is probably more analogous to your baptism, so maybe you could look into that and see if that fits your desire to have your kids make a conscientious decision for themselves (i.e. get baptized in your church, or get confirmed as a Catholic).

 Just so you know where some of the other posters are coming from, the rule for mixed marriages in the church is that the kids are to brought up Catholic. Both spouses are to agree to this (didn’t you have to sign a document to that affect?) and if they do not, they are not to be married. Since you don’t seem to be aware of this, the priest who married you probably didn’t do his job.
 
The rule is NOT that the children ABSOLUTELY HAVE to be brought up Catholic. The Catholic ALONE signs a statement that he will keep the faith and TO THE BEST OF HIS ABILITY will see that all children of the marriage are baptized and reared as Catholics. It is not the iron clad edict to many people think it is. That said, it is not a wishy washy, suggestion either. Catholic parents have an obligation to raise their kids Catholic whether their spouse is a practicing Catholic, a lapsed Catholic or a non-Catholic. What this mixed marriage rules do is recognize that just as a person can’t fulfill their obligation to hear Mass when they are deathly ill or away from a parish with a priest on Sunday so too a Catholic in a mixed marriage can’t guarantee that his kids will be Catholic. He has to do his best and God decides what your best was. It is not the same burden from family to family. Some mixed marriages are with strong practitioners of other faiths or may be in hostile anti-Christian areas like Cuba or Iran.

Case in point the censure of canon 1366 would not be used against a Catholic in a mixed marriage who allows his child to be baptized in a non-Catholic ceremony. This is according to the Canon Law forum at EWTN, hardly a wishy washy group of heterodoxy.

The non-Catholic has not had to sign a statement in over 30 years. Truth doesn’t change but disciplinary rules do and we need to keep up on them folks. It is not just the “lapsed” Catholics who misrepresent true Catholicism.
 
Geneologist,

It needs to be noted that rearing ones children Catholic includes baptism.

Amarition,

The priest may or may not have done his duty. It wouldn’t surprise me either way. The responsiblities of the groom toward the Bride are quite clear and makes men out of males.

Dan L
 
I admire your faith and desire to do what is best for your child. Those are traits that are very important to being a father. Your question is a good one and remember that God brought you and your wife together for a reason.

I haven’t read all the previous posts but I have some insights into infant baptism. I was an evangelical and recently converted to Catholic after being married to my Catholic wife for 12 years. I have since learned much about the reasons why Catholics believe what they do.

There is one baptism, meaning that although we talk about being baptized into the Catholic Church, we really mean baptized into Christ. All Christian baptisms are equally valid (even can be done by a non-Christian with the proper intention). You just need 3 things. Intention, the water must run across the skin, and words "I baptize you in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

You may wonder how a baptism can be valid if the decision is not fully made by the person being baptized. Well parents make many decisions for their children. This is good and necessary and you are charged with making important decisions for them while they are young.

The early church viewed baptism somewhat similarly to circumcision. I think it is in Exodus that God threatened to kill Moses because Moses had not circumcised his son as required. Circumcision was always done to an infant unless someone was converting to the Jewish faith.

In one of the early church counsels, they addressed the question on whether the baptism of a child needed to wait until after the 8th day (traditional day of circumcision). The answer was no. Infant baptism has had a long tradition of acceptance in the church.

You may want to consider listening to some Catholic Apologetics tapes or CDs so you can understand your wife’s faith from a Biblical perspective. Many times it is difficult for Catholics to explain the why (this true for all Christians when asked to provide a firm explanation of why they believe what they do).

For example why do you believe in the Trinity? It isn’t specifically mentioned in the Bible, although it can be deduced and supported by various passages.

A good choice for apologetics CDs is

biblechristiansociety.com/free_tapes.asp

If you make an effort to learn and understand your wife’s Catholic faith, then at the very minimum you will not end up in as many arguments based on misunderstanding.

I wish you the best. Keep in mind that you and your wife have many more similar beliefs and much more in common as Christians than you do differences.

Steve
 
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genealogist:
The rule is NOT that the children ABSOLUTELY HAVE to be brought up Catholic. The Catholic ALONE signs a statement that he will keep the faith and TO THE BEST OF HIS ABILITY will see that all children of the marriage are baptized and reared as Catholics.
I must be missing something here, because these two sentences seem contradictory to me. It sounds to me like you are saying that children don’t have to be raised Catholic, but they must be reared Catholic. My brother married a non-catholic and she had to agree that the children would be raised Catholic (I don’t know if she had to sign anything or not). My understanding is that the Catholic parent is responsible for raising the kids in the faith, and the other spouse is not to impede their Catholic upbringing (and ideally support it). If the priest believes this will not be the case, he should advise the couple not to marry.
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genealogist:
Case in point the censure of canon 1366 would not be used against a Catholic in a mixed marriage who allows his child to be baptized in a non-Catholic ceremony. This is according to the Canon Law forum at EWTN, hardly a wishy washy group of heterodoxy.
The censure doesn’t apply because in the Catholic Church we believe in one baptism. Any baptism done in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit is valid, no matter who performs it or what other ceremonial stuff goes on. So, most protestant baptism are perfectly valid, and thus acceptable as baptism for a Catholic child. A baptism done in the name of the Sun God, for example, would be unacceptable for a Catholic parent to allow.
 
My statements are not contradictory. There is a heavy burden for a Catholic to raise her children Catholic, just not the absolute burden that is presented by posters on this forum.

The censure of canon 1366 does apply against a pair of Catholics who present their son say to an Anglican vicar for baptism. Canonically speaking that child is validly baptised as you say but he is an Anglican and not Catholic. That’s how we can say that Martin Luther was a heretic but today’s cradle Lutherans are separated brethren having never been members of the Catholic Church. At their valid Lutheran baptisms, they became Christian through the grace of God, just not Catholic. If what you said were true every Protestant would be a heretic for leaving the Catholic church after his baptism.

As I posted above the Church is not thrilled when a mixed marriage raises its children Presbyterian, there is just not the same “penalties” as years ago. It used to be that if a Catholic married in front of a minister he was excommunicated. Now he can get a dispensation to have the minister perform the ceremony in a Protestant church with or without a priest. Disciplines have changed and we need to help SCHLEMELE find a path to keep them from divorce. Just because he may be tempted to go that route does not mean we should not do all in our power to preserve their union.
 
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Shlemele:
OK what I get from this post is as follows;
  1. your faith is bunk
    2 You will ruin yours and your wives lives if you don’t convert to the Roman Catholic Church
    3 You are self-centered if you want to pass on your faith to your children
This is why I can’t be Catholic. Everything is your way or the highway and yet I’m the one who is self-centerd. Ironically both her syblings nad all my Catholic friends are pretty much agnostics or buddists. They all went to mass just like my wife but fell away, they felt the church was cold and distant so went to somthing else and I don’t want that for my children.

Our confession of faith is identical, but my faith is meaningless because I don’t hold to certan docterines. Another thing I don’t understand, everyone I ask keeps telling me that Catholic babtis is different than Anababtist and it’s not a big deal. Well it is a big deal to my church. My father babtised me (he is an ordained pastor) and it was a major part in my life.

(I will continue later but I’m a bit frazzled ATM, Thinking with no children and a chasm developing between us the marrage might be over before it really begins)
Your faith is not BUNK - it is a Christian faith. You receive Trinitarian Baptism, yes? It is not BUNK but you must admit it is exclusive in its own right…in the eyes of the Church, an anabaptist is a Christian who is not partaking in the fullness of the Church. We do not think your faith is BUNK.

When a Catholic tells you that our Church is the Bride of Christ and our Traditions are sacred we are sharing the truth with you. We are not telling you it is ‘our’ way or the highway. No one chased you down and demanded that you marry in the Catholic Church and marry a Catholic Christian.

However, Dan has a very good point. Why in the world would you marry outside your faith if your faith and traditions are so important to you? And while your wife was wrong to ‘promise’ you to do one thing before you married and then change her mind, the fact is she is changing her mind and doing the RIGHT thing by her religious beliefs. It is YOUR beliefs that preclude infant baptism, not her’s. And now you tell her that if she does not adhere to a set of beliefs that she does not recognise as valid, and which you did not consider important enough to honor when you were chosing a bride and getting married, you will divorce her? That sounds a lot like “My way or the HIGHWAY”.

We believe in infant baptism because it is based in Holy Scripture and it is a Sacred Tradition that is close to 2000 years old. We believe that, when the child raised in the covenant of the Church, reaches the age where they can truly chose, then they are CONFIRMED in their faith. That is another sacrament.

I, too, see nothing but problems for you two. Of course, I am not God but I do have experience of years and an opinion and a big mouth.

Since you do not have children yet, and it means so much to you, it may be better that you two part ways, get an annulment (after all, she did ‘lie’ and/or ‘change her mind’) and pick people of your own faith and tradtions with whom to build a life. This will also mean you have not brought children into a situation that could cause them pain as time goes by.

I am also curious - have your people fully accepted your wife?
 
It is more difficult for a male to become a man than for a female to become a woman, I think. I could be wrong but at least my opinion is consistent with the Theology of the Body. A boy must pull away from his mother’s identity and strike out on his own. He must face the reproof of the world. Some males make it others don’t to some degree or other. The most challenging part of the masculine identity is the fact that he is called to give up his life for his bride whether that bride be the woman or the Church.

A female doesn’t have as arduous a journey. After all she comes from a body that is identical to hers. All that is asked of her is that she sincerely respect her husband. That respect will spur on the male to become a man. In the final analysis however, the male must make the decisions necessary and the abuse that comes with it in order to become a man.

Shlemele is not alone in his daunting task. All of us must go through this and give ourselves away. We must break away from our mothers and fathers and become a man. It is not easy. I pray for him that he stands up and takes it.

And if his family does not accept his wife he must always side with his wife. It is all part of the journey.

Dan L
 
Ok little more stable tonight. I’m going try to make some clarifications and respond a bit to prior posts.

First off let me start in the beginning; My wife and I were both in college and when we started talking about marriage we both had things we held important. My wife wanted to be married in her home church and to have a Catholic ceremony. I wanted to have a service and have my father marry us. Being that my wife wanted to remain in the Catholic church we were married by a priest that God help me could have been pulled from a casting of Friar Tuck and forgot what passages to read half way through the ceremony. My father was permitted to speak only because he was an ordained minister.

In learning about the traditions of the Catholic church (yes I have been learning, and I have learned much more since I have been married) we discovered the laws regarding infant baptism. Well that was the only thing that I had reservation about (hence the ongoing issues). Well we put the brakes on the engagement and sought the advice of the head of my wives diocese. My mother in law called and asked about our situation and if there was any possibility that we could make it work. His advice was that the law stating that the children must be baptized and raised in the Roman Catholic church was “a left over rule from a time when the church didn’t want to loose their members to encroaching foreign tribes far before the reformation”, and that the real meaning of the law was that the children must be raised in a Christ-centered environment. Since not raising the child with the knowledge of the love of God was never an option and the fact that this was a senior member of the RC church I felt that the issue had been closed and that we had reached a middle ground that was acceptable for each of us.

Two and a half years later we were visiting my in laws and my wife and I were standing outside with my sister-in-law who had just baptized her son and the conversation turned to religion. Well she mentioned that she would more than likely baptize the child just to get her mother off her back, and my wife said “yeah, we’ll do the same thing” my heart stopped. Here was the one thing I had asked and it had been dropped as she said just to keep her parents happy. I was so angry I didn’t speak to her until we got home. In the fight that ensued she revealed that she had never been ok with not baptizing the children but had wanted to be married so went on, hoping that I would change later. Well not wanting to do anything too rash we took a time out and I went to my best friend (who is a life-long RC) and asked him for advice. After listening to the situation he told me that from what he could remember of the churches in his area there was very little emphasis on infant baptism and a priest might agree to so the sacrament without baptizing the child. I returned home and told my wife I could live with the sacrament as long as baptism was saved for later, when the child made a conscious decision. We reconciled and I have been trying to find out who-where would do that service.

In so far as me being “my way or the highway” I have given up being married by my father in my church and have for the last six months been in contact with several priests on the web trying to find out if anyone knows the ceremony my friend was referring to. To my knowledge my wife has done nothing to find out about this. My fear is that maybe she isn’t trying because she isn’t serious about it. Say what you will about me not trying to make this work but I wouldn’t be posting here if I didn’t want to make my marriage work.

(Continued in next post)
 
Is so far as my family accepting my wife, there has been no issues there. My parents probably treat he better than me 🙂 My mother is happy she has someone else in the house who loves coffee and sends her cards for every holiday. My father is always asking her how she and her father are doing (her father has finally regained control of his life after years of alcoholism and just got his one year button, we are all so proud of him). Now we live three hours away from my parents and she is with her parents almost every other day (she works in the same bank as her mother and I work odd hours so she is over there a lot). So I feel cut off from my roots hers are being drawn back to her childhood. There are of course other issues, some rising from a lack of spiritual and emotional intimacy. When we were in college we went to my schools services (what we protestants call mass 😉 ) and I felt close to her. We would talk about the messages and the songs. She was learning a lot about the bible and loved it, I loved being able to share that aspect of my life with her (I was part of the choir but that was the only time she ever saw me sing) and I miss that. Mass may seem like a unifying thing to a Catholic but it is isolating to me. Stand up, sit down say this line, turn to your neighbor and give the secret handshake. I have been to many masses is several parishes and still feel cut off from my wife and from my soul. The last Mass I attended with my wife the priest rambled on for the whole homily about how to respond to “those born-agains”. Being one of those I took offense and my wife got mad at me because I felt the service was divisive.

Anyways I am sorry for rambling on about this but I hope it serves to give some insight as to why I feel a bit blind-sided and why I am at the place I am. I do love my wife but I don’t feel I can trust her now. If she wasn’t serious about the issue of baptism how can I be sure she won’t tell me she doesn’t want me to be involved in the faith of the children? I know that is a big step but so is the one that got us to where we are now. Once again I’m not trying to start a flame-war or make anyone mad, quite the contrary. I want to find a way to make this work and not resent my wife. If it is not possible I want to make it so she can be happy and whole, but I don’t believe one partner can be whole if the other holds things against them.

We all pray to the same God and I would appreciate a few thrown up for me if you can. I need wisdom and clarity. I know enough to know if you appeal to St.Judas I’m in deep trouble so bear that in mind if you would 😛 .

P.S. Again sorry for rambling on, taking up two pages is a bit more than I thought I would write but I needed to get it out. I am at least smart enought to know holding on to this isn’t good. I appologise for any eye fatigue. 🙂
 
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Shlemele:
We all pray to the same God and I would appreciate a few thrown up for me if you can.** I need wisdom and clarity**. I know enough to know if you appeal to St.Judas I’m in deep trouble so bear that in mind if you would 😛 .
Then let me repeat my previous post:

I am not going to beat you over the head, but I recommend that you do a little bit, er, a lot more research on the Catholic Church, and yours for that matter[so as to make an informed decision], than “going to a few masses”. You can go to as many masses as you like, but if you don’t understand the mass, then it is fruitless.
I could go to 100 seminars on astro-physics, and not learn a darn thing, since I don’t know anything about astro-physics to begin with.

I would suggest that you go through RCIA to at least gain a basic understanding of the Catholic Church, it is not binding, just go and learn. Have your wife go through with you as well, for that matter, it is always nice to get a refresher.

For your marital stability sake, and your children’s sake, you need to make this journey. Do not give them up so easily for your pride’s sake. Pride, the deadliest of the seven deadlies, is the preventer of ALL good things.

Piety, Study, Action.

All these suggestions are out of Love for you and your family.
Peace of the Lord be with you, and may God grant you wisdom in your studies.

PS. I highlighted ‘you need to make this journey’ because one does not have the fullness of Christ’s Teachings the second they proclaim his name.

For your sake and your families I pray you heed this humble advice.

Personally, I am always studying and striving to understand my Catholic faith, and every question I have gets answered. I have learned one very important thing from my journey. The Truth does not always fit my agenda. Once you open yourself up to this fact, the Truth becomes easier to accept, and adjust your life according to It.

I also highligted “study”, because all the prayer in the world will do you no good, if you don’t take action and study.

let me use a good joke to make my point.

a priest and a rabbi are at a boxing match and the two contenders come out. one of the boxers crosses himself, and this prompts the rabbi to ask the priest, “What does that mean?”
the priest replies, “Not a damn thing if he can’t box!”😉
 
I suggest, as someone else has, going to RCIA. You are under no obligation to join the Catholic church afterwards and probably won’t be pressured either way. I wish to convert but my hubby merely wants to learn what my beliefs will be. We are both attending meetings with a group of Catholics. At least in my church, the RCIA meetings are very relaxed. We have a man who is a convert and has a masters degree in theoology who is leading our RCIA meetings. He is very open to answering all the questions that Protestants normally have and has made my hubby feel very comfortable.

Perhaps you and your wife could hold off making a decision to baptize your future baby until you attend a year of RCIA together. I think that you will enjoy it. Too bad that you aren’t in NC, I’d give you the name of my church.
 
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deb1:
Perhaps you and your wife could hold off making a decision to baptize your future baby until you attend a year of RCIA together. I think that you will enjoy it. Too bad that you aren’t in NC, I’d give you the name of my church.
How is a faithful Catholic going to follow the advice to wait until they have children?

Schlemele,

I do honor what you’ve tried to do. Frankly, my Roman Catholic experiences have been a mixed bag. Some are friendly. Some are not. Some have priests that are deeply spiritual and preach stirring and challenging sermons. Some are just the opposite. Some Churches have retained their emphasis on icons some have destroyed them. For that matter as many will attest some RCIA programs are very good and some are very very bad. I don’t blame you for your frustration. Not all Churches try very hard to put on a good face.

Nor does it help that your wife was not open and honest with you about infant baptism. It doesn’t show much respect for you. Still Jesus says to the man that he is the one who must leave his father and mother and become one with his wife. It was much easier before Christians decided to disobediently split into multiple thousands of pieces. Yet you both took on the challenge of marrying without reconciling the most important aspect of anyone’s life before hand.

Perhaps a serious Bible study of the following would help. Find a priest you both respect and go study this passage together. Follow the Spirit’s leading.

Matthew 19:3-10 (New King James Version)

New King James Version (NKJV)
Copyright © 1982 by Thomas Nelson, Inc.

gospelcom.net/bg_versions/bgview.php?what=94 gospelcom.net/bg_versions/bgview.php?what=30

3The Pharisees also came to Him, testing Him, and saying to Him, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for just any reason?”
Code:
4And He answered and said to them, "Have you not read that He who made[a](http://bible.gospelcom.net/passage/?search=Matthew%2019:3-10;&version=50;#fen-NKJV-23764a)] them at the beginning "made them male and female,'**("http://bible.gospelcom.net/passage/?search=Matthew%2019:3-10;&version=50;#fen-NKJV-23764b")] 5and said, "For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh'?[c](http://bible.gospelcom.net/passage/?search=Matthew%2019:3-10;&version=50;#fen-NKJV-23765c)] 6So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate." 

7They said to Him, "Why then did Moses command to give a certificate of divorce, and to put her away?" 

8He said to them, "Moses, because of the hardness of your hearts, permitted you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so. 9And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality,[d](http://bible.gospelcom.net/passage/?search=Matthew%2019:3-10;&version=50;#fen-NKJV-23769d)] and marries another, commits adultery; and whoever marries her who is divorced commits adultery."     10His disciples said to Him, "If such is the case of the man with his wife, it is better not to marry."
One more thing: Eastern Catholic Churches are generally smaller and friendlier to first time visitors than are the typical RC Churches. In part this is because they recognize visitors as soon as they enter. Check out an Eastern Catholic Church.

Dan L
 
Shlemele,

You strike me as a man that has a real desire to follow God. I agree with the things said about RCIA (no obligation to convert, some good and bad programs).

If you want to find out about a certain faith, read what an adherant to that faith says. In other words, don’t try to understand the Catholic faith from what anti-Catholics write. That said, there are many “Catholics” don’t embrace the fullness of the faith and therefore can’t explain the basis for the “hard teachings”. They have already decided that their ideas are right and so have no need to learn more.

Seek God’s direction. Do not simply follow your own desire and not your wife’s desire, if it is simply to please her mother.

Keep asking the questions. If you want to best argue against what the Catholic Church teaches, then study what the Church teaches and not what others say the Church teaches.

I am fairly certain that you will not find anything about a infant dedication ceremony in the Catholic Church. Baptism is a Sacrament in the Catholic Church and cannot be replaced.

I offer you a challenge. Prove that infant dedication is scriptural from the Bible. Then you will have a strong basis for that which you ask.

Most non-Catholics believe that the Catholic Church ignores the Bible when it conflicts with what the Church teaches. I am a Bible believing catholic that believes 100% in the literal (not literalist) Word of God.

Literal = means the authors intentions and language of the time
Literalist = means exactly what the words say

For instance if the Bible said it was raining “cats and dogs”, I would believe that it was really raining hard, not that cats and dogs were falling from the sky. Also when the Bible says “it is harder for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of Heavan than a camel to pass thru the eye of a needle”, don’t take this in the literalist interpetation. There was a small door in the city gate called the “eye of the needle” in which a camel could pass crawling on it’s knees. It was very difficult to get a camel to do this. The big gate would be closed at night and if you wanted to get into the city, you had to get your camel to pass thru the “eye of the needle”.

Steve
 
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GregoryPalamas:
How is a faithful Catholic going to follow the advice to wait until they have children?
. Please reread his posts. The man does not yet have children, therefore his children are ***future ***children. I did not tell him to wait to have kids, but because those little kiddos don’t presently exist, he can wait until he attends RCIA to make a decision. If his wife gets pregnant before they finish, he still has some time to learn and make an informed decision.
 
I agree with one of the earlier posters that there have been a few uncharitable posts in response to this young man. I don’t think Shlemele is being self-centered. He more than likely, since he is protestant, thinks that most Christian religions are generally equal. I doubt very much that he thinks he is denying his future children anything by not baptizing them in infancy. He thinks that he is leaving to them the very important decision that he valued being able to make for himself.

With that said, Shlemele, I want to join the chorus and ask that you please do a little more reading into the meaning of infant baptism, particularly as it applies to Catholicism. Most Protestants still baptize in infancy; this is what the Church has done for it’s 2000 years because it is what Jesus intended.

I also want to say that despite what private agreement you and your wife made prior to marriage, you made a promise to God in your wedding vows to raise your children Catholic, and even if you were not aware at the time, that means having them baptized Catholic. The importance of these vows cannot be diminished.

Lastly, I beg you, Shlemele, to pray, pray and pray some more about what God wants for you and your family. You will get nowhere unless you ask God what he wants you to do, AND YOU LISTEN. Ask Him if He wants you to learn more about the Catholic faith, if He wants your children baptized in the faith, if He wants you to look at the possibility of becoming Catholic. I’m curious to know more about why Catholicism isn’t for you. Is it just the Mass? I’ve heard Mass Appeal by jimmy Akin is a great book, although I have not read it myself. I beg you to give it another try. Read and learn in addition to attending Mass with your wife.

Sorry, just one more thing – how serious is your wife about her faith? Does she attend weekly Mass, frequently receive the sacrament of reconciliation, continue to read and learn about the faith? You don’t have to answer. I’m just curious if she’s as serious and dedicated as you appear to be.

Here is what the fathers had to say about baptism.

http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/2002/0201frs.asp

http://www.catholic.com/library/necessity_of_baptism.asp
 
Let’s try this again folks ONLY THE CATHOLIC makes any promises in writing. The non-Catholic is made aware of the promise but is not asked to make it. You should have been able to have your father celebrate the wedding with a dispensation if that’s what you both wanted.

The laws on mixed marriage have been loosened since 1965. Gone are the old days of excommunication for marrying in front of a minister and making BOTH parties promise to raise the kids Catholic NO MATTER WHAT. Some may not like the changes but they were made and this gentleman needs positive advice to preserve his marriage and create a happy home. As Christians more unites them than divides them.

Schlemel I privately messaged you but it appears you have not read it. I gave a lead for the ceremony who asked about.
 
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GregoryPalamas:
It is more difficult for a male to become a man than for a female to become a woman, I think. I could be wrong but at least my opinion is consistent with the Theology of the Body. A boy must pull away from his mother’s identity and strike out on his own. He must face the reproof of the world. Some males make it others don’t to some degree or other. The most challenging part of the masculine identity is the fact that he is called to give up his life for his bride whether that bride be the woman or the Church.

A female doesn’t have as arduous a journey. After all she comes from a body that is identical to hers. All that is asked of her is that she sincerely respect her husband. That respect will spur on the male to become a man. In the final analysis however, the male must make the decisions necessary and the abuse that comes with it in order to become a man.
Dan L
I was sorely tempted to have some fun with this…but I think I’ll just leave it at :bigyikes:.
 
If it wouldn’t derail Shlemele’s thread, I’d say open season…Goofiest thing I’ve read in awhile.
 
Island Oak:
I was sorely tempted to have some fun with this…but I think I’ll just leave it at :bigyikes:.
If it wouldn’t derail Shlemele’s thread, I’d say open season…:eek: But where to begin?!
 
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