Ancestry.com and the Mormon Church

[Jerusha]

It is not the baptisms for the dead in themselves that bother me. It is the excessive weight placed on who one’s ancestors were. This is integral to Mormon theology.

I was taught in my family that God doesn’t care who your ancestors were. The most important thing is how you live your own life. That said, knowing your family history can help you understand the culture of your family.

 

[KathleenGee]

Catholics here are speaking from the conviction of faith in their hearts.

Now…

How would deeply devout Mormons respond if they found out Catholics were re-baptizing their Mormon family, friends, and members of their ward and administrators into 'corrupt, an abomination Catholicism???

If you have no conviction and certitude of your faith and its beliefs, your religious ethnicity and its heritage…then you won’t understand.

If the tables were turned, and this method of indoctrinating or initiating Mormons was put back on them…I don’t think the Mormons or their church would take this passively.

 

[mtolympus]

Catholics here are speaking from the conviction of faith in their hearts.

Now…

How would deeply devout Mormons respond if they found out Catholics were re-baptizing their Mormon family, friends, and members of their ward and administrators into 'corrupt, an abomination Catholicism???

If you have no conviction and certitude of your faith and its beliefs, your religious ethnicity and its heritage…then you won’t understand.

If the tables were turned, and this method of indoctrinating or initiating Mormons was put back on them…I don’t think the Mormons or their church would take this passively.

If the Catholic Church put the same time and effort into temple work as the LDS Church does. If they were sincere about their temple rites and were doing what they believe is a commandment from God, we would appreciate their love for us.

 

[Jerusha]

If they were sincere about their temple rites and were doing what they believe is a commandment from God, we would appreciate their love for us.

It is nice to know that you care. However, it is still evidence of a form of idolatry and the occult.

 

[mtolympus]

It is nice to know that you care. However, it is still evidence of a form of idolatry and the occult.

Or, fulfillment of the Old Testament prophecy that we are told must happen before the Second Coming of Jesus Christ:
“Behold I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord: And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.” (Malachi 4:5-6)

 

[KathleenGee]

MtOlympus…

Temple work…have you ever been to a Catholic parish?

Do you know the constructs of our faith? Check out the Catholic Catechism and there is no innuendos about all faiths being corrupt, an abomination to the Lord?..

Ours is based on the life, death and resurrection of the Lord.

Do you know the Catholic Church history and its humanitarian works not just to its own, but to Western Civilization?

Mormonism is just only so many years old…

You would not be here unless you were indoctrinated against our faith, like so many man made forms of religion and Christianity. There are as many understandings of Mormonism as there are members…and I recall a Protestant minister who spent 2 years among them, all different takes on their own beliefs.

 

[lizaanne]

Or, fulfillment of the Old Testament prophecy that we are told must happen before the Second Coming of Jesus Christ:
“Behold I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord: And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.” (Malachi 4:5-6)

And therein lies the impasse – we don’t acknowledge your “scripture”, and you don’t acknowledge ours. So until you budge on that, I see no where to go.



~Liza

 

[Jerusha]

And therein lies the impasse – we don’t acknowledge your “scripture”, and you don’t acknowledge ours. So until you budge on that, I see no where to go. ~Liza

Malachi is ours. Mormon exegesis of the Bible is unique.

 

[lizaanne]

Malachi is ours. Mormon exegesis of the Bible is unique.

It most certainly is.

~Liza

 

[CHRISTINE77]

It is not the baptisms for the dead in themselves that bother me. It is the excessive weight placed on who one’s ancestors were. This is integral to Mormon theology.

I was taught in my family that God doesn’t care who your ancestors were. The most important thing is how you live your own life. That said, knowing your family history can help you understand the culture of your family.

I really think doing genealogy work brings us closer to our families. We learn about their lives and history and how we are all connected. Ultimately it helps to explain who we are presently. So I think it is a very worthy endeavor.

As for baptism of the dead, I don’t think it’s anything for other people to get all upset about. We know our salvation is through our own faith. If the Mormons want to go through a ritual that means something to only them, I say “Whatever!”

 

[mtolympus]

MtOlympus…

Temple work…have you ever been to a Catholic parish?

Yes, mass once and several Catolic weddings. I loved our visits to the cathedrals in Spain and the Catholic missions in California. Beautiful and inspiring!

Do you know the constructs of our faith? Check out the Catholic Catechism and there is no innuendos about all faiths being corrupt, an abomination to the Lord?..

Very commedable positive constructs but there have been a few diversions such as the Protestant Reformation and the Thirty Years War which wiped out about one third of the population of Germany. (I didn’t learn about this at church)

Ours is based on the life, death and resurrection of the Lord.

Very commendable and pleasing to the Lord.

Do you know the Catholic Church history and its humanitarian works not just to its own, but to Western Civilization?

Absolutly, did you know that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints works together with Catholic charities to provide humanitarian relief thoughout the world?

Mormonism is just only so many years old…

We beleive the basics of our theology began with Adam. And that the covenant (the gosple) that God made with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob was renewed with their seed at various times in world history including the time of Jesus and at the time of the Restoration in the 1800s. God said in his covenant wit Abraham: “I will establish my covenant with between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations.”(Genesis 17:7) emphasis added

You would not be here unless you were indoctrinated against our faith, like so many man made forms of religion and Christianity. There are as many understandings of Mormonism as there are members…and I recall a Protestant minister who spent 2 years among them, all different takes on their own beliefs.

Our missionary efforts over the last twenty or thirty years has tried to focus more on the positive. Testimonys of believers are, and always have been, based on a witness of the Spirit, not on what we know or don’t know about an apostasy.

I hope this helps. I can tell you love your church. Stay strong and let’s work together for the cause of Christ.

 

[mtolympus]

Malachi is ours. Mormon exegesis of the Bible is unique.

We can share.
Malachi’s teachings where directed to the sons of Jacob (Malichi 3:6), in other words to the Children of Israel, specifically those who would be living shortly before the Second Coming of Jesus Christ. Chapters 3 and 4 of Malachi are a warning to the sons of Jacob and to all of the world of what is needed to prepare the world for the coming of the Lord.

The Jewish people, who are only a small part of the Children of Israel, believe the writings of Malachi refer to the coming of Messiah. They await the coming of Elijah and prepare a place for him each year at Sedar.

Latter-day Saints were commanded to build a temple in Kirtland Ohio which was completed in 1836. We believe Elijah appeared in the Kirtland temple in April of 1836 to restore the keys to temple work.

 

[epan]

Is Ancestry.com a reliable resource for genealogical research despite it being run by the Mormon church?

I found a copy of the original passenger list for the voyage which brought my great grandfather from Ireland to Boston.

Also found copies of census records from the 1860’s listing by great great grandfather in Ohio.

etc.

It is a great resource. Don’t overlook the Mormon Geneology Center, if there is one near you. No charge, and experts to help you find what you are looking for.

 

[The_John_1]

They take geneology very seriously, but they use the information to “baptize the dead”. Catholic parishes were told not to allow Mormons to look through their baptismal records for this reason. Many Mormons who had their ancestors posthumously baptized will update their Ancestry.com info as being baptized Mormon. I have a friend who was surprised to see her Irish grandmother listed as being Mormon!

As for the rest of the information, you can find some interesting stuff and connect with distance cousins.

stupid question - why do they need to look at baptismal records? why not use the phone book and other directories?

Likewise - at the end of the day who cares - it doesn’t do anything and has no consequence with those names they use…

 

[twopekinguys]

Timothy 1:4,
4 Not to give heed to fables and endless genealogies: which furnish questions rather than the edification of God, which is in faith.

So yet, another mormon tradition or practice that goes against the Bible.

 

[KathleenGee]

MtOlympus…

Still did not answer my question…

How would you or other Mormons respond if you found out you were initiated into another religion, one considered an abomination with corrupt doctrine and a corrupt priesthood…without your consent?

Temple work is irrelevant considering any church or cathedral bears us the presence of Christ Himself, and brings us His Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity in the Eucharist.

Nothing can compare with receiving Christ Himself …that no works of man can duplicate or accomplish.

 

[runningdude]

stupid question - why do they need to look at baptismal records? why not use the phone book and other directories?

Likewise - at the end of the day who cares - it doesn’t do anything and has no consequence with those names they use…

The problem is that in 10,000 years, we don’t know who’s records will survive. The Catholic Church will certainly still be around, but the Vatican could burn down, and the internet may collapse, and nearly all the world’s paper records may deteriorate. All our collective knowledge could be reduced to fragments and oral history.

If some Mormon bunker is then dug up containing records of several million posthumous baptisms, this may lead secular historians to conclude that most people in our time were Mormon.

Who knows what crisis of faith such a discovery might trigger among future Catholics.

 

[twopekinguys]

The problem is that in 10,000 years, we don’t know who’s records will survive. The Catholic Church will certainly still be around, but the Vatican could burn down, and the internet may collapse, and nearly all the world’s paper records may deteriorate. All our collective knowledge could be reduced to fragments and oral history.

If some Mormon bunker is then dug up containing records of several million posthumous baptisms, this may lead secular historians to conclude that most people in our time were Mormon.

Who knows what crisis of faith such a discovery might trigger among future Catholics.

Some Jewish leaders felt the same way about Holocaust victims.

They, and the mormon church entered into an agreement in 1995 that they wouldn’t do it anymore, but lo and behold, as of earlier this year, it was still being done.

Read here, and here.

 

[mtolympus]

MtOlympus…

Still did not answer my question…

How would you or other Mormons respond if you found out you were initiated into another religion, one considered an abomination with corrupt doctrine and a corrupt priesthood…without your consent?

Temple work is irrelevant considering any church or cathedral bears us the presence of Christ Himself, and brings us His Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity in the Eucharist.

Nothing can compare with receiving Christ Himself …that no works of man can duplicate or accomplish.

Yes, I am sure there would be some Mormons that would look at it that way and chose to be offended. However, those who truly believed these ordinances were performed by a corrupt and false priesthood would know that there could be no effect after this world and not worry about it, or even, if they knew the intentions were good, appreciate the work that was being performed.

Most Catholics and most Mormons understand that only the true priesthood has the power that Jesus gave to Peter so that “whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven.” (Matthew 16:19) So why worry if one truly believes these are performed by a false priesthood?

On the other hand, if an angel who was sent from God visited the Pope one night and paraphrased the prophet Malachi chapters 3 and 4 and other Old Testament prophets, and told the Pope that these things would soon come to pass. And that after additional instructions he would be responsible to see this work moves forward. Would the Pope and the Catholic people say: “Sorry some people may not understand this strange thing you ask of us and I am sure they will be offended”?

 

[RebeccaJ]

No Catholic is required to believe the private revelation of anyone else.

Jesus is God’s Perfect Word revealed. Everything required of us as we await the return of Our Lord is found in the NT. Care for the sick, the poor, the dying, the imprisoned. Love your neighbor. Baptize the living. Live a Christian life (laid out very well in James). The perpetual Eucharist. Nothing that says the living need to baptize the dead.

What is offensive about the Mormon practice is what it conveys. “Baptizing” our Saints and other faithful. It is more of a sacrilege than anything, especially when using our own records!