"And also with you" Gesture

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Shellie said:
I have a question about a gesture during Mass. Some people around me lift their hands toward the Priest when they say: “And also with you,” after the “Peace be to you.” Is this correct?

And the “profound bow” during the Nicene Creed? Our priest so slightly bows, that if I hadn’t been looking for it I would have missed it, and I don’t see anyone else modeling it.
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Do you attend my parish? 😉

Now, I admit that I’ve started the gesture (slight & unsure) when I say “And also with you.” I know we aren’t supposed to go with feelings, but for me it feels more meaningful when I do it…instead of just a response. (Like when someone says “Hi!” and I respond, but add a smile “Hi!”) I know it’s Mass not making friends…just an explanation why after seeing others do it, I do it.

The time during the Nicene Creed when the bow is to take place still makes me uncomfortable. :o Some of my learning takes place by looking around. At the part in the Missal where it reads (Bow) no one bows, not even our priest. I’ve seen a couple of slight head bows, barely noticable. I really want to bow, but battle with not knowing EXACTLY where to start & end the bow.
Also knowing, I will stand out feels uncomfortable, even though I’d be in the right.

Would anyone suggest talking to our priest about the bow?
Just mentioning I notice no one bows (not bringing up that he doesn’t :eek: )
 
I have always wondered where that came from, that flippant little wave that reminded me of those really bad actors on infomercials in the “I’ve fallen, and I can’t get up” genre. To me it just seems silly. Many of my friends gesticulate when they talk (yes, most of them are Italian!) but “and also with you” is usually not included among the gestures. When the GIRM finally gets around to retranslating this response to the more accurate, “and with your spirit,” will people then link their thumbs together and flap their palms like wings?
 
Maria3m said:
Do you attend my parish? 😉

Now, I admit that I’ve started the gesture (slight & unsure) when I say “And also with you.” I know we aren’t supposed to go with feelings, but for me it feels more meaningful when I do it…instead of just a response. (Like when someone says “Hi!” and I respond, but add a smile “Hi!”) I know it’s Mass not making friends…just an explanation why after seeing others do it, I do it.

The time during the Nicene Creed when the bow is to take place still makes me uncomfortable. :o Some of my learning takes place by looking around. At the part in the Missal where it reads (Bow) no one bows, not even our priest. I’ve seen a couple of slight head bows, barely noticable. I really want to bow, but battle with not knowing EXACTLY where to start & end the bow.
Also knowing, I will stand out feels uncomfortable, even though I’d be in the right.

Would anyone suggest talking to our priest about the bow?
Just mentioning I notice no one bows (not bringing up that he doesn’t :eek: )
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Profession of Faith: All bow during these two lines:

by the power of the Holy Spirit
he was born of the Virgin Mary, and became man
 
demerzel85 said:
Usually some charismatics tend to go way too far in this. Prayer with palms open is valid, but there are limits.
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How about that reference that validates the “Palm Open” or “Hands Extended” for the laity in the liturgy?
 
netmil(name removed by moderator) said:
How about that reference that validates the “Palm Open” or “Hands Extended” for the laity in the liturgy?
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I am not fully versed on the subject, but from what I understand there are Old Testament references to it. I also wouldn’t use the term “Hands Extended” as a gesture for the laity.

Offhand I can only think of…
“In the nights lift up your hands to the holy places, and bless ye the Lord.” (Psalm 133:2)
Hear, O Lord, the voice of my supplication, when I pray to thee; when I lift up my hands to thy holy temple. (Psalm 27:2)
Thus will I bless thee all my life long: and in thy name I will lift up my hands. (Psalm 62:5)
 
demerzel85 said:
I am not fully versed on the subject, but from what I understand there are Old Testament references to it. I also wouldn’t use the term “Hands Extended” as a gesture for the laity.

Offhand I can only think of…
“In the nights lift up your hands to the holy places, and bless ye the Lord.” (Psalm 133:2)
Hear, O Lord, the voice of my supplication, when I pray to thee; when I lift up my hands to thy holy temple. (Psalm 27:2)
Thus will I bless thee all my life long: and in thy name I will lift up my hands. (Psalm 62:5)
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Not a single one of those references are
  1. with palms up
  2. from the GIRM
The orans position is for the priest in the liturgy. There has never been a directive for the laity to use it by the Vatican in the mass.
 
netmil(name removed by moderator) said:
Not a single one of those references are
  1. with palms up
  2. from the GIRM
The orans position is for the priest in the liturgy. There has never been a directive for the laity to use it by the Vatican in the mass.
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“There has never been a directive for the laity to use it by the Holy See in the mass.” 😉

Logically, there are 2 ways to lift up your hands in prayer. One with the palms facing down and the other with palms facing the sky.

Is it compulsory for references to what is done in the Liturgy to come from the GIRM? No. Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition can also be referenced.

Correct me if I am wrong, but the orans gesture is with hands outstretched. What I have explained in my previous post is not the orans. The orans is reserved for the Priest, and I am not saying that the laity can do it.
 
Dr.Bombay said:
And that forehead, lippy, heart thing at the Gospel.
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🙂 An old Redemptorist priest explained to me one time that the significance of that particular gesture is “May the Word of God dwell in our minds, be proclaimed upon our lips, and live in our hearts.”

In my old parish, I used to see a lot of older women doing the “And also with you” gesture; some of them also copied the priest’s gestures during the Consecration. I always just figured it was some more frustrated feminist priestess-wannabes.

The one gesture that used to drive me up a wall was when the priest would ask everyone in the congregation to stand “and extend your right hand in blessing” towards someone or something or other…it always made me think of a Nazi Party meeting at the Reichstag, with everyone doing a “Heil Hitler” salute. :mad:
 
Wolseley said:
In my old parish, I used to see a lot of older women doing the “And also with you” gesture; some of them also copied the priest’s gestures during the Consecration. I always just figured it was some more frustrated feminist priestess-wannabes.
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Yep sometimes there are people who take certain gestures too far, be it intentionally or unintentionally.
 
CRW said:
Profession of Faith: All bow during these two lines:

by the power of the Holy Spirit
he was born of the Virgin Mary, and became man

This has always been written but is rarely followed now (look at the church Missal); what a shame.

Most of the others mentioned above are local customs and not required by the General Instructions of the Roman Missal; except for the celebrant of the Mass.
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I was so thrilled the first time I visted my present parish: almost EVERYONE bows at the Incarnation. Love it! I’m not a freak anymore! 🙂
 
demerzel85 said:
Is it compulsory for references to what is done in the Liturgy to come from the GIRM? No. Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition can also be referenced.
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Nothing is to be added to the liturgy. Otherwise dancing would be allowed as well.

There is to be dancing (and joy) when Israel is restored - Jeremiah 31v4&13

Miriam led dancing, singing and praise - Exodus 15v20-21

David danced before the Ark of the Lord - 2 Samuel 6v14-23
1 Chronicles 15 and 16

We are to praise God with dancing - Psalm 150v4

As Cardinal Arinze stated here in Detroit recently, if it’s not there (the GIRM), don’t do it.
 
netmil(name removed by moderator) said:
Nothing is to be added to the liturgy. Otherwise dancing would be allowed as well.

There is to be dancing (and joy) when Israel is restored - Jeremiah 31v4&13

Miriam led dancing, singing and praise - Exodus 15v20-21

David danced before the Ark of the Lord - 2 Samuel 6v14-23
1 Chronicles 15 and 16

We are to praise God with dancing - Psalm 150v4

As Cardinal Arinze stated here in Detroit recently, if it’s not there (the GIRM), don’t do it.
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You are referencing to the Liturgical Dance not the gesture that some use for the “Et cum spiritu tuo”.
 
pnewton said:
Gesture question: Is this in the GIRM? I have seen some do it and did not know if it was part of the Mass.
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At the end of the day, bowing at the Holy Name of Jesus is a private devotion that is not inside the GIRM. The Carmelites however would practise it when they celebrate Mass. Carmelite Bishops would practise it, and if there is a Carmelite Pope in the future, he would practise it.
 
demerzel85 said:
At the end of the day, bowing at the Holy Name of Jesus is a private devotion that is not inside the GIRM. The Carmelites however would practise it when they celebrate Mass. Carmelite Bishops would practise it, and if there is a Carmelite Pope in the future, he would practise it.
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Thanks. It sounds good to me. I guess that means that gestures not directly forbidden in the GIRM are allowed.
 
demerzel85 said:
You are referencing to the Liturgical Dance not the gesture that some use for the “Et cum spiritu tuo”.
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Correct.
Note the “Otherwise” in my original statement. One cannot add to the liturgy on Bible verses, Otherwise, liturgical dancing would be acceptable.
 
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