...and even more questions

  • Thread starter Thread starter Miserissima
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Byz: I didn’t meant to get into the seedy perspective of “just remuneration,” and thank you for looking that up for me. I need to remember that stipends are always a gift and not a price.
No worries! There was a lesson in Eastern thought in it, and it was a good review / reflection for me as well.

It also prompted me to pull up and read the bulletin from the mission parish - a very nice read, I must say, packed with so much more than the weekly announcements. I enjoyed reading it, and now sorry I’m not a little closer …
 
Aww…where are you, instead?
NYC metro area (a displaced Pennsylvanian now in NY)

My wife went to law school in Baltimore, and I was in the defense industry for many years, so I know your area pretty well (as well as the locale of the mission).
 
I’m a Yankee in DC. When we retire, I’m going to get a little house in New England with no basement, no stairs, and my closest neighbor will be at least 12 miles awway. LOL! 😉

I was wondering iof you had time this weekend to tell me a little about what RC saints the Byzantine Catholics recognize, and vice versa.
 
I’m a Yankee in DC. When we retire, I’m going to get a little house in New England with no basement, no stairs, and my closest neighbor will be at least 12 miles awway. LOL! 😉

I was wondering iof you had time this weekend to tell me a little about what RC saints the Byzantine Catholics recognize, and vice versa.
As Catholics, we recognize all RC saints. That’s a privilege that comes with membership!😃

Yet we also recognize saints that were canonized in Orthodoxy before our Churches reunited with Rome.

A notable example, a week from this Sunday (Second Sunday of Great Lent), we commemorate St. Gregory Palamas. He lived from 1296–1359, and was canonized by the Orthodox Church in 1368 (all after the “Great Divide” of 1054).

While we may not recognize, formally, saints canonized by the Orthodox Churches following our reunion with Rome, it is long held custom to venerate saints with whom we feel a spiritual connection. There are many ECs with icons of more modern Orthodox saints, and vice versa. We tend to look to the spiritual merit of the saint as opposed to the Church that canonized the saint.

That said, should the joyful day come when the Apostolic Churches are once again united, this will make for some interesting discussion, but I imagine a similar approach might be taken (as with the EC Churches).
 
I am incredibly relieved as I didn’t want to leave my precious St. Teresa of Avila behind. I thought she’d be a good crossover saint since she was a Carmelite, and the Byzantine have a great affection for the Carmelites (and the Desert Fathers and Mothers, as well).

Now, how about the Rosary? Will I need to abandon that? I’ve read that it’s a “Latinization” and should be eschewed even as a private devotion, but as an American I don’t think I’m such a purist. :o

That having been said, I dearly love the Jesus prayer and Our Lady’s prominent place in the Divine Liturgy, and perhaps I’m just unwilling to choose between the Dominican Rosary and the Byzantine devotions (most of which I am still learning).
 
Now, how about the Rosary? Will I need to abandon that? I’ve read that it’s a “Latinization” and should be eschewed even as a private devotion, but as an American I don’t think I’m such a purist.
In my current parish and even at the Cathedral parish in Passaic (where I was a parishioner for a number of years), the Rosary is recited every Sunday morning. We are Catholic - we can have both! The only concern from the Eastern side is that Latin devotions completely suppress the Eastern ones.

If you ever have occasion to hear the Akathist Hymn to the Theotokos (sometimes referred to as the “Byzantine Rosary”), you’ll know instantly why we would not want to suppress the Eastern devotions.

BTW - the Akathist is to be chanted on the fifth Saturday of Great Lent. I hope they do so at the Mission and you are able to attend (although, if my math is correct, you may have other matters to attend to by that time).
 
BTW - the Akathist is to be chanted on the fifth Saturday of Great Lent. I hope they do so at the Mission and you are able to attend (although, if my math is correct, you may have other matters to attend to by that time).
From your lips to His ear, friend! We are shooting for April 4th - 10th; you’re spot on in your calculations. 👍
 
From your lips to His ear, friend! We are shooting for April 4th - 10th; you’re spot on in your calculations. 👍
We pray for God’s choicest blessings for your family and the good health and blessed fortune of your children!
 
Finally, what is a Liturgy Stipend? Is it offered to remember someone during the Divine Liturgy? Is it offered in thanks for performing a Mystery (Baptism / Communion / Chrismation or a wedding)? Is it what we’re supposed to put in the collection basket on Sunday? :confused:
**
ByzCathCantor** has done an excellent job of giving you the practice in the Byzantine (Ruthenian) Catholic Church which it sounds like both of your are worshiping in.

I just would add that this is not the case in other Eastern Catholic Churches, although there may be some besides the Ruthenian/Byzantine CC who have adopted this.

The Divine Liturgy is offered for the Glory of God and His people in all our Churches.
At least in the Orthodox tradition we follow as Russian Greek Catholics it is not ‘offered’ for the intention of some one. Within the many litanies in the DL are numerous intentions. Our Slav tradition for prayer intentions would be during the Proskomedia which takes place before Divine Liturgy. We write prayer intentions for the living and for the reposed either in a booklet each person may use, or on slips of paper provided. You place a prosphora with the booklet or papers on the tray for that purpose and the priest or deacon retrieves these after their vesting prayers for use in the Liturgy of Preparation. It is typical that one is “asked” to contribute $1. for this, similar to the contribution one makes for the candles one places at icons. You can read about the prayers which are offered for the living and the reposed in this way. These names are often also intoned by the priest or deacon during the DL in the litanies when we pray for the reposed, etc. Apart from the $1. for the prosphora there is no money involved, and I’m sure that there are times when no dollar is given with the prosphora and prayer slip. No one is there to check. It’s all done on the “honor system”.

The Proskomedia/Liturgy of Preparation itself as described in the links given is done in a similar way in the Byzantine/Ruthenian Church. I assumed there are also written prayer requests parishioners fill out, tho not individual prosphora in that tradition.

We do have the *Panikhida *service for the reposed celebrated attached at the conclusion of DL, or separately. The Russian Orthodox Cathedral up the street from us celebrates a Moleban every Saturday at the relics of St. John Maximovitch during which hundreds of prayer intentions are silently read by a number of clergy. When we have a special intention often our parishioners will go to that or submit the names here. Like the Panikhida the Moleban service is not a liturgy but is another service where special intentions are brought in prayer. There is no money expected for that, as is apparent on the Cathedral website. I have known family in my parish to place money into the collection box or hand it to the priests in an envelope. (Likewise when we have had Holy Unction services for gravely ill parishioners.) This goes directly into the parish collection.

I’m offering this to indicated there are differences in how things are done. The quote from the Melkite’s ByzCathCantor provided describes this “Mass Stipends” as a western usage and says the recent CCEO canon law for the Eastern Churches allows it. Many see the CCEO canons has heavily latinized.

Some Churches will have incorporated more of the traditions of the Latin Church. There are many reasons for this and I am not here to criticize these practices. My parish has kept close to the Orthodox way. Many of our parishioners also attend Mass in the Latin Church and happily engage in practices there which would not be appropriate in our temple. 🙂 I am quite fond of the Stations of the Cross during Lent. Unfortunately the Stations are done in my Latin parish Friday nights when I’m at Liturgy of the Pre-Sanctified Gifts. Tonight I would noramlly be able to go, since our Great Lent hasn’t yet begun, but the Latin parish is having a retreat tonight instead of the Stations. 🙂
 
I was wondering iof you had time this weekend to tell me a little about what RC saints the Byzantine Catholics recognize, and vice versa.
Again, a difference from what ByzCathCantor has shared for the Byzantine (Ruthenian) Catholic Church. My parish follows the Orthodox typikon. We use the calendar and the prayers of the OCA. So we do not commemorate any contemporary saints of the West. We do, however, have an icon of St. Thérèse of Lisieux on our iconostasis. She is the only western saint in our temple, in our building. She is there because our icon screen was modeled after the iconostasis in the Russicum seminarian’s chapel. (The reason for her presence there is explained here.) Many or most of the priests who served the Russian Greek Catholic Church were trained at the Russicum.

This doesn’t mean there could be no reference to a Western saint. I have heard Father in the OCA parish speak (positively) of a western saint in his homily and at other times. But we follow the calendar of the East for our commemorations, which means the Holy Icon we venerate that day, the Kontakion and the Troparion reflect these.
Now, how about the Rosary? Will I need to abandon that? I’ve read that it’s a “Latinization” and should be eschewed even as a private devotion, but as an American I don’t think I’m such a purist. :o
Praying the Rosary aloud in our temple would be considered quite out of place, as would be for example kneeling on a Sunday. These are foreign to us, at least in that context. As a private devotion it would of course be fine, though I’ve never seen anyone praying the Rosary in the temple.

Orthodoxy however, unlike America, is concerned with a kind of purity-- orthos (“right”, “true”, “straight”) + doxa (“opinion” or “belief”, related to dokein, “to think”). The desire is to remain true to one’s own patrimony. There are many reasons why praxis of the Latin Church crept into Eastern Catholic Churches. These practices helped the faithful during times of hideous persecution. However what is only say two generations in use, gets now called “tradition”. Add to that Latin Catholics who love our liturgy and want to keep up what they are familiar with, within a Church they are unfamiliar with but attracted to. Please don’t be offended, but for many of us these innovations are just as distressing for us as the things which many in the Latin Church now find offensive in the innovations of the Ordinary Form of the Roman Rite.

Understand that the Greeks consider our “traditional” Russian liturgical music to be a modern innovation and think we have strayed in not using traditional Byzantine chant. 🙂
 
The key features of a Byzantine Catholic church are graphically represented and explained in some detail here, courtesy of St. Thomas the Apostle BCC, Rahway, NJ. Click on any one of the three-bar crosses for further details.
Though not completely sure if all Byzantine Catholic Church have BibleStudies/SundaySchool, but the one in Anchorage, AK has a summer session ever now and then. The staff teach the bible from the Byzantine point of view. It’s great to see them come outside at times. They really like to live close to home. You might check into if your’s has something like what they have in Alaska.
:highprayer:
http://www.ak-byz-cath.org/images/St Nicholas Early Morning.jpg
 
You might check into if your’s has something like what they have in Alaska.
Boy karaleigh - you’ve proven that you can fit an onion dome on just about any type of building!

BTW - I think I found my preferred summer retreat spot …

Thanks for the post!
 
Boy karaleigh - you’ve proven that you can fit an onion dome on just about any type of building!

BTW - I think I found my preferred summer retreat spot …

Thanks for the post!
You will love it there. So beautiful with clean, flesh air. Though the photo doesn’t show the area, the church is almost in downtown Anchorage. Bless you for seeing beauty in a wooden church building w/ a golden onion dome.
👍
 
It seems that one can never have too many domes:
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
Church of Transfiguration on Lake Onega (Kishi Island) in the Republic of Karelia, Russia (built without nails)

Kit:
 
It seems that one can never have too many domes: Church of Transfiguration on Lake Onega (Kishi Island) in the Republic of Karelia, Russia (built without nails)
Amazing! Great post!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top