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ufamtobie
Guest
In Matt 16:18 What Church, was Jesus Christ, referring to over 2000 years ago? And where do you think it is today?
Ufam Tobie
Ufam Tobie
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kimbers1209
Guest
He definitely wasn’t referring to The Catholic Church as they have taken His word and twisted it beyond recognition, he’s referring to all the people that actually listen to his word and follow it. Those people make up “my church”.
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wanabesaint
Guest
The Universal Church of Truth that has been passed down in a Tradition of Truth that was layed out by Jesus Christ who came to call all People to a New Covenant of the One True God…
A structure of Truth, that when followed leads to a Harmony, Intergrity, and Clarity to all…
Some examples of the Truth are the Sacraments that God gives us through Priests, God sent the Holy Spirit to Guide us, and Saints also lived lives as examples for us to follow and to also see that we might also see and believe, calling all of us to live lives as saints have…
We now await those who are guided by the Holy Spirit to pick a new guide, a Pope that is guided by the Holy Spirit, and the Holy Spirit works through, as we as well ask the Holy Spirit to work through us, to lead us and to hold to these Truths of the Holy Church that was founded on the rock that Peter started…
IN God we trust, and ask that we follow Truth, and God… for that leads to harmony, intergrity, and clarity to pickup our Crosses and to follow God as Jesus did… the Church…
not of this world do we seek, but of eternal life with God, creator of all and life itself.
Church, that which leads to eternal salvation, God, beyound our comprehension but our creator we desire to be worthy of …
A structure of Truth, that when followed leads to a Harmony, Intergrity, and Clarity to all…
Some examples of the Truth are the Sacraments that God gives us through Priests, God sent the Holy Spirit to Guide us, and Saints also lived lives as examples for us to follow and to also see that we might also see and believe, calling all of us to live lives as saints have…
We now await those who are guided by the Holy Spirit to pick a new guide, a Pope that is guided by the Holy Spirit, and the Holy Spirit works through, as we as well ask the Holy Spirit to work through us, to lead us and to hold to these Truths of the Holy Church that was founded on the rock that Peter started…
IN God we trust, and ask that we follow Truth, and God… for that leads to harmony, intergrity, and clarity to pickup our Crosses and to follow God as Jesus did… the Church…
not of this world do we seek, but of eternal life with God, creator of all and life itself.
Church, that which leads to eternal salvation, God, beyound our comprehension but our creator we desire to be worthy of …
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SonSearcher
Guest
The One, Holy, catholic and apostolic Church. aka - the Catholic Church.
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aemcpa
Guest
Read “Lumen Gentium”.
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ChurchSoldier
Guest
The Christian Church. Those baptized in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
As would be appropriate, others here may disagree…
As would be appropriate, others here may disagree…
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LaSainte
Guest
The Catholic Church of course 
Peter was the rock (the name Peter means “rock” literally) and Peter became the first pope, or the “rock” on which was built the entire Catholic Church.
Peter was the rock (the name Peter means “rock” literally) and Peter became the first pope, or the “rock” on which was built the entire Catholic Church.
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chero23
Guest
Honestly be truthful to yourself, the Christian Church. With that you mean all Christians. But let’s be honest with ourselves, what baptist teaches is different than Methodist, and episcopalian, and Lutheran and Pentecostal, and church of god, and seventh day Adventist. If you look in Isaiah 22:22 how the king passes the key to one person. Now look at the verse in Matthew Jesus gave the key to his kingdom to one person which is Peter.
So we look at 1timothy 3:15 we can see that the church is foundation of truth. Which church, theirs 44,000 denominations and each teaches something totally different than the other.
The Catholic Church is the church based on what the apostles laid down.
Among the congregation of saints, where the word is preached and the sacraments administered, there is His Church.
Jon
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kimg901
Guest
.
I would be careful with those words. Many non-christians (restorationists) would use these words that Jesus never started a church and how their church is the one true church of christ.
That there are divisions in His Church, caused by human sin, does not mean His Spirit is not with each of us. That Jesus directly addresses Peter in conferring the keys does not mean they were his and his alone. He received them for Christ’s Church. That the see in Rome is considered the chair of St. Peter does not make St. Peter the exclusive property of those in communion with the Bishop of Rome. We, as Lutherans, also claim the apostolic teachings, the power to bind and loose, the keys to the kingdom, which He gave to His Church.
Totally different? The Church is the foundation and pillar of truth, human divisions notwithstanding, be they the divisions of the Great Schism, the Reformation, or those divisions that followed, primarily out of the Reformed and radical reformations.
How do you know?
Jon
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Third_Day
Guest
JonNC, How many sacraments? Two or seven?
What word? Justified by faith alone or faith and works of grace?
Can priests forgive sins?
Can a justified man lose his salvation?
Infant baptism or adult baptism?
Is the Eucharist only a symbol?
Is there a priesthood?
I could go on and on.
Your definition doesn’t ring true. Christ said He would send the Holy Spirit to guide His Church into all truth. All these denominations don’t agree on what Truth is. These denominations are not the THE Church established by Christ 2000 years ago. WHere Peter is there is the Church.
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SonSearcher
Guest
Jesus walked around approximately 2000 years ago, saying baptize and teach…to the apostles. He stated I will build my Church and the gates of hell will not prevail. The only Church even close to a founding date of 2000 years ago is the Catholic Church. Therefore the Catholic Church is really the only option. Founded by the Apostles. And that doesn’t mean that 1500 years down the line I am totally gonna give up on this Church because it will no longer be my Church. Remember God is all knowing, all Merciful, and all Loving. He wouldn’t leave His Church, but we people we sinners will surely leave His Church.
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SonSearcher
Guest
AMEN.
Here you are speaking of human divisions, which are sin. Is anyone willing to say that the Spirit will not be with sinners? If not, then we must be willing to admit that the Spirit guides His Church, even though divided.
We have Peter. The Orthodox have Peter. The Anglicans, Methodists, et.al. have Peter.
“Christ said He would send the Holy Spirit to guide His Church into all truth.” this is a phrase on ongoing action, not a past-tense event. The Spirit’s guidance is ongoing, and those who least understand the truth of the Gospel need His guidance all the more. Those who do not discern the real presence, need His guidance. Those who do not understand the work of regeneration in Baptism, need the guidance of the Spirit. The shepherd leaves His flock to seek the one who is lost. There is more joy in Heaven over the one who repents than over 100 not in need of repentence.
There is no scriptural claim that only those in communion with the Bishop of Rome are of His Church. Nor is there a claim that only those in communion with the sees of Eastern Orthodoxy are His Church. Nor Canterbury, nor Wittenburg. The wind blows where it wishes.
Even if I think the CC is wrong regarding all facets of justification, I know that there one can find His word and sacraments (number them how you will). So, there,too is the Church, where his saints gather around word and sacrament.
Jon
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Indifferently
Guest
Wasn’t Peter the Bishop of Antioch before he was Bishop of Rome? His successors at Rome have merely usurped a huge amount of authority due to the Apostles collectively. There is certainly no precedent in the early Church, nor any of the first seven councils, for Rome to have anything other than a primacy of honour.
Much of what the Church of Rome is now is a hangover both from theological currents in the Middle Ages and the Roman Empire’s co option and nationalization of Christianity.
Peter’s legitimacy came from confessing the truth of the Lord Jesus Christ. Rome was by far one of the more reliable sees in much of Christian history. How unfortunate then that he started trying to rule the Patriarch of Constantinople all those years ago.
Much of what the Church of Rome is now is a hangover both from theological currents in the Middle Ages and the Roman Empire’s co option and nationalization of Christianity.
Peter’s legitimacy came from confessing the truth of the Lord Jesus Christ. Rome was by far one of the more reliable sees in much of Christian history. How unfortunate then that he started trying to rule the Patriarch of Constantinople all those years ago.
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R_C
Guest
Among the congregation of saints, that is correct. But only under the guidance of those whose authority can be traced back to the apostles by a continuous line based on the laying of hands. Only they can administer Sacraments. This is why the Church is apostolic. More here and here.
All others, baptized and thus Christians, are in the Church but not in full communion with the Church.
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bzkoss236
Guest
The visible Church: The Catholic Church
The invisible Church: All those in the Body of Christ (all the baptized)
The invisible Church: All those in the Body of Christ (all the baptized)
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Third_Day
Guest
The Lutheran denomination is not the Church founded by Christ. You are part of the Catholic Church, the body of Christ, because of your baptism.
Is the Bishop of Rome the successor of Peter?
His Church was built upon the foundation of the apostles. The Lutheran denomination was built not on an apostle but on a man.
Lutherans do not have a valid priesthood and therefore do not have the Real Presence.
That is exactly why Christ chose Peter to be the head of His earthy Church so that everyone would know who taught the truth and who taught error.
The apostles held the office of bishop. They appointed other men as bishops through the laying on of hands. That process has continued to this day.
Lutheran’s do not have valid Bishops and have no claim to be considered a part of the Church. Lutherans are members of Christ’s body through baptism but they are not in the Church established by Christ, they are outside the Church.
Your idea of justification is not apostolic.It is a novelty. Without Peter you have wandered into error. Other than baptism and marriage you do not have sacraments.
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chero23
Guest
But he did started Church, Paul even says so. Paul was the person whom by the Bible we can see that he was everywhere in the region preaching about the 1 Church. Just tell me if Paul says, “Imitate me as I imitate God, follow the traditions which we the apostles have given you”. Paul tells us to be united, I mean 44,000 denominations/ groups/ sects does not sound united, on the contrary it sounds that were doing the total opposite of what God instituted through the apostles.
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