'Angels exist but they don't have wings': Catholic church 'angelologist' declares they are more like shards of light
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gilliam
Guest
With all due respect; how would he know?
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MtnDwellar
Guest
I presume he’s seen them.
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Coatimundi
Guest
What a strange headline. It givens the impression that Fr. Renzo Lavator is saying that we can see angels. From what little is written in the actual article, it seems he was saying that angels can’t be seen, but their presence can be felt. I doubt he means that they can be physically felt, like a cat lying on your lap, but that the presence of an angel can be spiritually felt.
Of course, we have only the information in Daily Mail article to go by. But I would mention that the newspaper does have a certain reputation for, um…fanciful reporting.
Of course, we have only the information in Daily Mail article to go by. But I would mention that the newspaper does have a certain reputation for, um…fanciful reporting.
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gilliam
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cjforJesus
Guest
I am glad he stated this fact as I am so tired of the sexualization of angelic beings.
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Darryl1958
Guest
As far as I know, angels in Catholic teaching, are androgynous.
There is a movie that someone once talked about, Dogma is the name I believe, and in the movie the angel exposed (him)self to a woman to prove that he was an angel. That is because androgynous being do not have genitalia.
There is a movie that someone once talked about, Dogma is the name I believe, and in the movie the angel exposed (him)self to a woman to prove that he was an angel. That is because androgynous being do not have genitalia.
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Elizium23
Guest
Angels are traditionally asexual, and depicted with pre-pubescent features. Asexual is the lack of characteristics while androgyny is the presence of both.
There is no Catholic teaching on the sex of angels - there is very little teaching on angels at all. Even Thomas Aquinas, the Angelic Doctor, did not speculate on their sex.
There is no Catholic teaching on the sex of angels - there is very little teaching on angels at all. Even Thomas Aquinas, the Angelic Doctor, did not speculate on their sex.
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livingwordunity
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Angels don’t have a physical body. They are pure spirit. This may have been what the priest meant.
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Pat_Albertson
Guest
I have never seen an angel, although I dearly wish that I could.
There are other people who say they have, and some of them have even posted about their experiences in this forum.
From what I have read (other than on CAF, but here too), an angel can take whatever form it chooses, and that includes appearing as either a male or a female. Sometimes an angel will walk with some particular chosen person and engage in a conversation*. In order that the human not appear to be talking to thin air, the angel may take on a human form, like, say, a priest. When this happens in a holy place like a seminary, other people (even other priests) may give the angel a respectful greeting, “Hello Father.”, “Good afternoon Father”, without ever knowing exactly whom they have just spoken to.
My reading has indicated that the shards of light form is one form, and that other forms are a pillar or column of light, as well as the aforementioned priestly form. I presume there are other forms as well, perhaps myriads. Just because we don’t hear about them does not mean that such tiny miracles do not happen to humble people (saints in the making? just particularly holy people? or maybe sinners whom the angel is intent on teaching or correcting? I have no idea . . .) we do not know about. God showers his angels down upon this earth in vast vast profusion, it’s just that we don’t often listen to them, or to Him.
I won’t say exactly where I read this because other people on this forum have been very critical of the people who have written about such things.
If we believe angels to be real, then my guess would be that they can appear in whatever way they think is most useful to them as they carry out their duties, so I don’t see anything wrong with the priest’s description. My only criticism of it is that it’s a bit limited, or at least that’s what I take from my reading.
Finally, I will not defend one iota of this post. Nobody has to believe even the tiniest bit of what I just posted, but I just thought I would add my :twocents: is all.
*And what would be the reason for engaging in such a conversation? I have no idea. I guess that if something like that occurs, then it would be up to the angel, the person, and God.
There are other people who say they have, and some of them have even posted about their experiences in this forum.
From what I have read (other than on CAF, but here too), an angel can take whatever form it chooses, and that includes appearing as either a male or a female. Sometimes an angel will walk with some particular chosen person and engage in a conversation*. In order that the human not appear to be talking to thin air, the angel may take on a human form, like, say, a priest. When this happens in a holy place like a seminary, other people (even other priests) may give the angel a respectful greeting, “Hello Father.”, “Good afternoon Father”, without ever knowing exactly whom they have just spoken to.
My reading has indicated that the shards of light form is one form, and that other forms are a pillar or column of light, as well as the aforementioned priestly form. I presume there are other forms as well, perhaps myriads. Just because we don’t hear about them does not mean that such tiny miracles do not happen to humble people (saints in the making? just particularly holy people? or maybe sinners whom the angel is intent on teaching or correcting? I have no idea . . .) we do not know about. God showers his angels down upon this earth in vast vast profusion, it’s just that we don’t often listen to them, or to Him.
I won’t say exactly where I read this because other people on this forum have been very critical of the people who have written about such things.
If we believe angels to be real, then my guess would be that they can appear in whatever way they think is most useful to them as they carry out their duties, so I don’t see anything wrong with the priest’s description. My only criticism of it is that it’s a bit limited, or at least that’s what I take from my reading.
Finally, I will not defend one iota of this post. Nobody has to believe even the tiniest bit of what I just posted, but I just thought I would add my :twocents: is all.
*And what would be the reason for engaging in such a conversation? I have no idea. I guess that if something like that occurs, then it would be up to the angel, the person, and God.
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Darryl1958
Guest
Your point is well taken.
Mine was based more on the second definition of androgynous:
an·drog·y·nous (n-drj-ns)
adj.
- Biology Having both female and male characteristics; hermaphroditic.
- Being neither distinguishably masculine nor feminine, as in dress, appearance, or behavior.
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KyrieEleison17
Guest
Nonsense. Angels exist and they can have wings if they like…
But you just can’t fit more than 5,011 of them on the head of a pin. That’s where I draw the line.
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ProVobis
Guest
But one can store all of CAF and its posts on material much smaller than the head of a pin.
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GangGreen
Guest
As far as I know, they are pure spirit and manifest themselves to us upon God’s will. At which point they temporarily take the form of a human. Whether they have wings when they do that? I don’t know.
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mikekle
Guest
Ive also read in more than one place that angels of God are about 18ft tall, and DO have wings, and supposedly the wings and their entire bodies have ‘eyes’ covering every inch, it also says they have 4 different ‘faces’, so whatever they truly look like, it is probably nothing like we can imagine! I doubt we could even describe how they look, as there are not words for such beings descriptions.
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gnosisofthomas
Guest
I have a feeling they can appear however they want, since they’re bodiless. The image everyone thinks of is largely due to the influence of art.
I think it’s interesting that whenever an angel appears to someone in scripture, the first thing he says is, “Don’t be afraid!”
I think it’s interesting that whenever an angel appears to someone in scripture, the first thing he says is, “Don’t be afraid!”
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Brendan
Guest
Angels are pure spirit, they do not have bodies, nor do they incarnate into bodies.
They can APPEAR in any form, but it is an appearance only.
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Brendan_64
Guest
Any books written about angels and their appearance are pure speculation.
Angels are referred to and described in the Bible. There is nothing to suggest that they have pre-pubescent features and they did (at least some of them) have wings. Angels do no bear offspring.
Daniel 10:5-6
I lifted up my eyes and looked, and behold, a man clothed in linen, whose loins were girded with gold of Uphaz. 6 His body was like beryl, his face like the appearance of lightning, his eyes like flaming torches, his arms and legs like the gleam of burnished bronze, and the sound of his words like the noise of a multitude.
Isaiah 6:2-6
Above him stood the seraphim; each had six wings: with two he covered his face, and with two he covered his feet, and with two he flew.
Matthew 22:30
For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven.
Whatever they looked like, they were fearsome creatures and people were struck with fear on seeing them.
Anything written about angels that isn’t based in scripture is nonsense. There is a lot of nonsense out there written about angels. If we want to know what angel smay be like then we should look to Scripture rather than the ‘Mind, body and soul’ section of our local book shop.
Angels are referred to and described in the Bible. There is nothing to suggest that they have pre-pubescent features and they did (at least some of them) have wings. Angels do no bear offspring.
Daniel 10:5-6
I lifted up my eyes and looked, and behold, a man clothed in linen, whose loins were girded with gold of Uphaz. 6 His body was like beryl, his face like the appearance of lightning, his eyes like flaming torches, his arms and legs like the gleam of burnished bronze, and the sound of his words like the noise of a multitude.
Isaiah 6:2-6
Above him stood the seraphim; each had six wings: with two he covered his face, and with two he covered his feet, and with two he flew.
Matthew 22:30
For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven.
Whatever they looked like, they were fearsome creatures and people were struck with fear on seeing them.
Anything written about angels that isn’t based in scripture is nonsense. There is a lot of nonsense out there written about angels. If we want to know what angel smay be like then we should look to Scripture rather than the ‘Mind, body and soul’ section of our local book shop.
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Darryl1958
Guest
But not all those posts would be dancing on the head of that pin with the lightness of the feet of angels, that’s for sure.But one can store all of CAF and its posts on material much smaller than the head of a pin.
I have an idea that even on or two of mine would be tromping around with the stubby hairy feet of trolls.
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Tampa_Dave
Guest
Thank you for the quotes from Scripture. I wholly agree with you.
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