Angels n Saints

[guanophore]

First of all, thank you for having the courage to go against your religion and acknowledge us as Christians.

You have revealed your ignorance about the Catholic Church. Catholicsm does teaches that most Protestants are Christians.

However, we believe the Bible’s teaching that all born against believers are saints but not in the Roman Catholic teaching that some special people are designated saints after their death and given supernatural authority over specific areas of life.

This is a very interesting Freudian slip! “Born against believers”.

What makes you think that saints are not given supernatural authority? Do you believe that about the saints on earth, as well as the saints who have passed?

You say that this is described in the Bible. May I ask where the Bible says anything about “patron saints”?

Moses and Elijah were patronizing Jesus:

Mark 9:2-4

2 And after six days Jesus took with him Peter and James and John, and led them up a high mountain apart by themselves; and he was transfigured before them, 3 and his garments became glistening, intensely white, as no fuller on earth could bleach them. 4 And there appeared to them Eli’jah with Moses; and they were talking to Jesus."

Luke 9:30-31
0 And behold, two men talked with him, Moses and Eli’jah, 31 who appeared in glory and spoke of his departure, which he was to accomplish at Jerusalem.

 

[dmelosi]

The Vatican is an anti-Roman Catholic source?

Please give a source other than you just saying it. Anyone can make things up.

Please show where the Vatican said this. Perhaps a link?

 

[guanophore]

We believe that the saints pray for us. However, because the Bible strictly condemns praying to the dead, we do not pray to them.

You have clearly not been educated about these basics of Kingdom living. The saints are not dead, but alive. All who are “in Christ” are alive.

2 Cor 5:16-18
17 Therefore, if any one is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has passed away, behold, the new has come.

and they NEVER DIE!!!

John 11:26
26 and whoever lives and believes in me shall never die.

I don’t know why you think they are dead, when Jesus plainly says they are not?

 

[guanophore]

It’s very common. Even your pope came out and declared us to be non-Christians.

I would also encourage you to look in to the Roman Catholic teaching of ex ecclesia nulla salas.

You misunderstood what the Pope said, brosam. What ecclesia nulla salas means is that all baptized Christians are considered part of the Catholic church. Bet you didn’t know you are Catholic, did you?

There is only one church. One Body, One Baptism, One Lord, who is Christ, and is the Head. Since there is only ONE church, all Christians must be part of it.

 

[cherubim]

We believe that the saints pray for us. However, because the Bible strictly condemns praying to the dead, we do not pray to them.

Dear brosam,

Yes,the saints pray for all of us and I believe the after life so it means if we are dead we leave our earthly body on earth and live forever spiritually with our heavenly body.If you think we pray to the dead concerning the saints you are against your and my belief as christians.If you read the bible with care it’s clearly mentioned that after our earthly life our existence won’t stop and continue either in heaven or hell.As you mentioned you believe that the saints pray for us you also believe that the saints are alive in heaven.We have the same God,our Living God.In the book of revelation we can read that holy souls are alive in heaven even condemned souls in hell.So I don’t pray to the dead,but pray to the living souls in this case the saints.

God bless

 

[ThereseMarie]

Please give a source other than you just saying it. Anyone can make things up.

Please show where the Vatican said this. Perhaps a link?

**
Don’t press him too much. He put me on his ‘ignore list’ yesterday because I pressed him to show me where the Bible proved his doctrine. :crying: He gave me 1 John 3:1-3, and I guess he didn’t think I would actually look up the verses. When I did, I saw he was MAKING STUFF UP. I say, if you are going to insist on pointing to the Bible for everything, then you shouldn’t MAKE UP what the Bible is saying. If you do, then you are not pointing to the Bible. You are pointing to yourself.

Sola Scriptura doesn’t make sense, and the Fundamentalists can’t even make it work for themselves (without inventing words and phrases), much less anyone else.

He is unable to fabricate links to the papal quotes he is MAKING UP, so therefore he cannot produce them for us. **

 

[dmelosi]

Don’t press him too much. He put me on his ‘ignore list’ yesterday because I pressed him to show me where the Bible proved his doctrine. :crying: He gave me 1 John 3:1-3, and I guess he didn’t think I would actually look up the verses. When I did, I saw he was MAKING STUFF UP. I say, if you are going to insist on pointing to the Bible for everything, then you shouldn’t MAKE UP what the Bible is saying. If you do, then you are not pointing to the Bible. You are pointing to yourself.

Sola Scriptura doesn’t make sense, and the Fundamentalists can’t even make it work for themselves (without inventing words and phrases), much less anyone else.

**He is unable to fabricate links to the papal quotes he is MAKING UP, so therefore he cannot produce them for us. **

Sure seems like a case of “hate because he doesn’t understand” Someone has sure been feeding him a bunch of baloney and for probably a long time.

 

[Hellisreal]

I cant believe brosam is doing this again!

On another thread!

Brosam, why did you ignore my requests to you yesterday? Hoping if you keep repeating your unfounded position again here is going to make it true?

Yawn

Cricket, cricket

Told you he couldn’t do it.

You should check out his posts from yesterday. There’s more MADE UP stuff there too.

 

[ThereseMarie]

****QUOTE=dmelosi;2742227]Sure seems like a case of “hate because he doesn’t understand” Someone has sure been feeding him a bunch of baloney and for probably a long time.

Sadly, I see this everyday here in East Texas – Protest-ants making stuff up from the Bible which they so fervently refer to, and I have even heard them making up history!!! One Protes-ant told me in all seriousness that Catholics “added books” to the Bible. Huh? I mean, come on, it is easy to research this stuff. Yesterday brosam said there was no evidence that Jesus left us the Catholic Church. Again: Huh? *Jesus’ * Church has been called “Catholic” since the 1st century! We shouldn’t be able to come here and MAKE STUFF UP. It’s not right.

I know all this is way off the subject. But I when I see people MAKING STUFF UP, I want to correct them. Spiritual work of Mercy.

 

[guanophore]

Well, that’s great! I can’t wait to get to my local Roman Catholic church and take communion with my fellow Christians.

Great! RCIA is enrolling right now! You probably have not even missed a class yet!

The Vatican is an anti-Roman Catholic source?

No, I think the source of the problem is the anti-Roman Catholic attitude with which you are reading.

(The Pope)
I think he was pretty clear already when he said that we don’t have the means of salvation.

brosam, do you think that Jesus expects us to follow the ten commandments? I am just curious, because this statement is getting very close to bearing false witness against your neighbor. Now, maybe you don’ t know that what you have been taught is a lie, but when you present it here, and we make it clear it is not true, and you keep presenting it, you then become responsible for perpetrating the lies.

 

[brosam]

Great! RCIA is enrolling right now! You probably have not even missed a class yet!

If I’m a Christian, then why do I need to take a class?

this statement is getting very close to bearing false witness against your neighbor. Now, maybe you don’ t know that what you have been taught is a lie

Demonstrate to me, using the scriptures, that it is a lie.

 

[brosam]

You have revealed your ignorance about the Catholic Church. Catholicsm does teaches that most Protestants are Christians.

So, we’re not really a part of the church, we don’t have the means of salvation, and we’re apostate, but we’re Christians?

What makes you think that saints are not given supernatural authority?

Because the Bible says that they’re dead and do not interact with the living.

Do you believe that about the saints on earth, as well as the saints who have passed?

Of course.

Moses and Elijah were patronizing Jesus:

Jesus is God. God has the perogative to speak with the dead. You are not and you do not.

 

[brosam]

If you read the bible with care it’s clearly mentioned that after our earthly life our existence won’t stop and continue either in heaven or hell.

That’s correct. However, the issue isn’t that our lives end or don’t end, it’s whether or not we’re to pray for the dead.

So I don’t pray to the dead

So, what do you do when those around you pray to the dead? You don’t say the canned “Hail Mary” prayer?

 

[DJgang]

You don’t say the canned “Hail Mary” prayer?

:dts:

 

[dmelosi]

Brosam,

Do you not realize that all you are doing is going through these posts and picking part of a response from someone else and commenting only on that part of it, taking it completely out of text.

You ignore the posts completely if you cannot answer them.

Ignoring, picking and choosing is the sure sign of an “ignorant of the facts” anti-catholic.

What protestant denomination are you?

 

[Hellisreal]

Demonstrate to me, using the scriptures, that it is a lie.

How can you, demonstrate to us all here that the charges you made against Holy Father are true?

You have not. You can not.

You persist to repeat falsehoods.

Demonstrate to me, using the scriptures where you stand now my friend.

 

[MarcoPolo]

So, we’re not really a part of the church

*Catechism paragraph 1271
For men who believe in Christ and have been properly baptized are put in some, though imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church. Justified by faith in Baptism, [they] are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers by the children of the Catholic Church.*That’s how you are “part” of the Church.

Swell. I can’t wait to head on down to my local Roman Catholic church this weekend and take the Eucharist with my fellow Christians…

But typically you can’t take Communion in the Catholic Church (see paragraphs 1400-1401, cf 1 Cor 11:27-30).

 

[brosam]

Catechism paragraph 1271
For men who believe in Christ and have been properly baptized are put in some, though imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church. Justified by faith in Baptism, [they] are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers by the children of the Catholic Church.That’s how you are “part” of the Church. But typically you can’t take Communion in the Catholic Church (see paragraphs 1400-1401, cf 1 Cor 11:27-30).

Either I’m a Christian or I’m not. There’s nothing in the Bible to suggest any of this “Well, you’re kind of a Christian, but not really” malarkey.

If I’m not a Christian, then it really doesn’t matter. If I am, then there’s no reason for me to become Roman Catholic.

 

[Hellisreal]

Brosum, are you unable to answer me?

Just pick up your bible.

 

[paarsurrey]

Is it true that christians(non-catholics)don’t believe in angels and saints while they’re clearly described in the Holy Bible?

Hi

We Muslims also believe in angels and their visitation to saints as mentioned in Quran:

The Holy Quran : Chapter 41: Ha Mim Al-Sajdah

[41:31] As for those who say, ‘Our Lord is Allah;’ and then remain steadfast, the angels descend on them, reassuring them: 'Fear not, nor grieve; and rejoice in the glad tidings of the Garden which you were promised;
[41:32] 'We are your friends in this life and in the Hereafter. Therein you will have all that your souls will desire, and therein you will have all that you will ask for -
[41:33] ‘An entertainment from the Most Forgiving, Merciful God.’
[41:34] And who is better in speech than he who invites men to Allah and does righteous deeds and says, ‘I am, surely, of those who submit?’
[41:35] And good and evil are not alike. Repel evil with that which is best. And lo, he, between whom and thyself was enmity, will become as though he were a warm friend.
[41:36] But none is granted it save those who are steadfast; and none is granted it save those who possess a large share of good.

Unquote

We don’t believe that Jesus, Mary, Moses, Muhammad or any other saints are intercessors between us and the GodAllahYHWH. GodAllahYHWH hears our prayers directly so there is no need of any intercessors.

Thanks