Anger, Shock Over Leading Washington Politician for Constantly Taking His Wife with Him

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I mean, I think it’s a bit odd, but I certainly don’t think less of him for it.
 
Odd that a husband would include his wife rather than have dinner/drinks with other women in a town where the media is always on the prowl for perceived indiscretions? I call it very wise and thoughtful of his wife as well. Good for him!!!
 
Odd that a husband would include his wife rather than have dinner/drinks with other women in a town where the media is always on the prowl for perceived indiscretions? I call it very wise and thoughtful of his wife as well. Good for him!!!
odd
äd/
adjective
1.
different from what is usual or expected
 
Do you think he has an all male, all heterosexual staff? I’m quite serious.
 
They only mean that the men get to have private in-depth social conversations with the Vice President, but none of the women do. If it were his policy that he did not socialize with anyone over dinner or drinks without his wife, the reaction would not be the same.

From a professional standpoint, I can see the issue. Donald Trump got himself into trouble over the kind of things he said to other men when there are no women around, after all, so it is not as if an all-male social situation is not a near occasion of sin. Mr. Trump called it “locker room” talk, I believe. If the Vice President would not meet with any men without ladies present, lest the conversation become less than civilized, nor with any women without his wife president, it would seem more equitable, or if he did business in a business setting and socialized only with his wife…well, that kind of thing.
 
I can’t see where there is a reason for shock or anger. What a great guy.
 
Title does sound like clickbait…the press is getting further and further detached from reality by the hour!

Better title: Family values return to Washington.
 
I am really surprised that anyone is surprised. One commentator, a woman named Erin Duffy, put it this way:

This kind of thinking might be fine within the confines of a marriage or purely social situations, but quickly becomes problematic in a place of business because it assigns ulterior motives to women whose actual motivations are probably quite clear: I want to be heard. I want to work hard. I want to be respected. And I want the same exposure and access to my boss that my male counterparts have. That’s it. Admitting discomfort in having a woman sit across a dinner table suggests that we want something more than that. It shifts the blame for extra-marital affairs, or even lapses in judgment squarely onto the women’s shoulders. “I will never stray as long as you aren’t around to entice me to stray,” is more than just a little ridiculous.

That particular writer also (I think fairly) made this particular point:
*Now let’s imagine a world where a woman in a leadership position espoused similar attitudes. The criticism would be fervent and, in my opinion, obvious: She can’t handle the pressure. She’s so ineffective that she can’t even manage to have a cocktail with a male underling. She’s out of touch with what’s going on within her group. She’s weak. Or, the other option: Her husband controls her. She can’t even exert herself at home, so how can she possibly exert herself in the office? She’s a liability. She’s weak.

The same moral rigidity that allows Pence to wield this argument isn’t available to women in power. It’s simply not something we could ever get away with. We are expected to prove our competency by handling ourselves in all company, in all situations, no matter the time of day. Not to mention the fact that if a woman in a managerial position ever tried to ban meals with members of the opposite sex, she’d eat an awful lot of salads at her desk alone.*

What if Pence did not have any one-on-one meals with anybody, male or female, because he did not want to develop any friendships that might be at odds with his marriage–that is, that will keep him both from forming an inappropriate friendship with a woman and from making a friendship with a man who might use the friendship to lure him into somewhat different inappropriate things?

In other words, before you decide someone has no right to be angry, you might listen to why it is they are angry.

Let us also remember, by the way, that there were similar rules in place governing the meetings of decent men and decent women in Our Lord’s time. Those rules forbade the encounter we know as the story of the Samaritan Woman at the Well, and would have been behind the murmuring at another incident, the incident at which Our Lord’s host, the Pharisee named Simon, said, “If this man were a prophet, he would know who and what sort of woman this is who is touching him, that she is a sinner.” (Lk 7:39) Let’s not be so arrogant as to assume that those people living long ago had worse reasons than we would have for this kind of rules.

Mostly, though, remember that Pence’s case is not like that of Billy Graham, who used the rule in a pastoral setting where those seeking to meet with him were looking for very personal and emotional interventions and were often very emotionally vulnerable. Pence is not a pastor. He is a powerful man and access to him is access to political power. While there are women who would rather not be left alone with a man who has become accustomed to being in a position of power, the reason is not because the powerful man is vulnerable to them. If the man’s wife doesn’t like leaving other women alone with him, that’s not a good sign.
 
One of the surest signs I’ve seen as of late of utter feminist and leftist degeneration of the media/blogosphere is bashing Vice President Pence for his policy of not going on dates with women other than his wife.
 
One of the surest signs I’ve seen as of late of utter feminist and leftist degeneration of the media/blogosphere is bashing Vice President Pence for his policy of not going on dates with women other than his wife.
The SJW internet isn’t going to be satisfied with anyone or anything. I complimented a feminist once and got 30 messages about it from her. :rolleyes:

Some of those folks don’t want to have a conversation and are impossible to talk to. And when people are engaged in the oppression olympics at fever pitch, well, they’ll come for everyone eventually because there has to be a villain for there to be a victim.
 
One of the surest signs I’ve seen as of late of utter feminist and leftist degeneration of the media/blogosphere is bashing Vice President Pence for his policy of not going on dates with women other than his wife.
:rolleyes: Being alone with a member of the opposite sex is not automatically a date. People are just pointing out that it has the potential to be unfair in terms of opportunities for one on one time between him and his female staff members, which is a real issue when it comes to discussing problems at work, getting advice, etc. My husband is the only straight man in his office and I’m certainly not expecting him to drag me in every time he wants or needs to have a conversation with his boss.
 
I am really surprised that anyone is surprised. One commentator, a woman named Erin Duffy, put it this way:

This kind of thinking might be fine within the confines of a marriage or purely social situations, but quickly becomes problematic in a place of business because it assigns ulterior motives to women whose actual motivations are probably quite clear: I want to be heard. I want to work hard. I want to be respected. And I want the same exposure and access to my boss that my male counterparts have. That’s it. Admitting discomfort in having a woman sit across a dinner table suggests that we want something more than that. It shifts the blame for extra-marital affairs, or even lapses in judgment squarely onto the women’s shoulders. “I will never stray as long as you aren’t around to entice me to stray,” is more than just a little ridiculous.

That particular writer also (I think fairly) made this particular point:
*Now let’s imagine a world where a woman in a leadership position espoused similar attitudes. The criticism would be fervent and, in my opinion, obvious: She can’t handle the pressure. She’s so ineffective that she can’t even manage to have a cocktail with a male underling. She’s out of touch with what’s going on within her group. She’s weak. Or, the other option: Her husband controls her. She can’t even exert herself at home, so how can she possibly exert herself in the office? She’s a liability. She’s weak.

The same moral rigidity that allows Pence to wield this argument isn’t available to women in power. It’s simply not something we could ever get away with. We are expected to prove our competency by handling ourselves in all company, in all situations, no matter the time of day. Not to mention the fact that if a woman in a managerial position ever tried to ban meals with members of the opposite sex, she’d eat an awful lot of salads at her desk alone.*

What if Pence did not have any one-on-one meals with anybody, male or female, because he did not want to develop any friendships that might be at odds with his marriage–that is, that will keep him both from forming an inappropriate friendship with a woman and from making a friendship with a man who might use the friendship to lure him into somewhat different inappropriate things?

In other words, before you decide someone has no right to be angry, you might listen to why it is they are angry.

Let us also remember, by the way, that there were similar rules in place governing the meetings of decent men and decent women in Our Lord’s time. Those rules forbade the encounter we know as the story of the Samaritan Woman at the Well, and would have been behind the murmuring at another incident, the incident at which Our Lord’s host, the Pharisee named Simon, said, “If this man were a prophet, he would know who and what sort of woman this is who is touching him, that she is a sinner.” (Lk 7:39) Let’s not be so arrogant as to assume that those people living long ago had worse reasons than we would have for this kind of rules.

Mostly, though, remember that Pence’s case is not like that of Billy Graham, who used the rule in a pastoral setting where those seeking to meet with him were looking for very personal and emotional interventions and were often very emotionally vulnerable. Pence is not a pastor. He is a powerful man and access to him is access to political power. While there are women who would rather not be left alone with a man who has become accustomed to being in a position of power, the reason is not because the powerful man is vulnerable to them. If the man’s wife doesn’t like leaving other women alone with him, that’s not a good sign.
I agree with you and I think a lot of people are totally missing the point. As a public servant, he’s granting different levels of access to him based on gender. He has a responsibility to treat all of his constituents fairly and he’s failing to live up to that responsibility. This does not mean he should change his rule if that’s what his heart and concience are telling him to do. But, he could be fair about it. I mean, if this policy isn’t a burden on the women around him, it should be no problem to apply it to men, too.

He should apply this rule across the board and treat both genders the same with the same explanation about his marriage. It’s actually a pretty good policy and it could open the door to a wider discussion about workplace practices and the expectations of familiarity in general. Many people have to have one on one lunch or dinner meetings with the opposite sex for work, myself included. Many people find this uncomfortable. But, we all put on our grown up pants and do it anyway because we need to make a living. That he exempts himself but only to the detriment of one class of people is not admirable or respectable.

He could really use this to lead by example and open a broader discussion. Instead, whether it is or not, it just looks like an excuse to relegate half of his colleagues, underlings, and constituents to second class citizens. For an elected official in his position, this double standard is just anti-democratic.
 
This wouldn’t work if the husband worked had to keep client confidentiality. If he were a lawyer, his famale clients would have to approve of Mrs Pence being around. Or a psychologist, or a doctor. Even a pastor. Or a priest. I don’t bring DH into the confessional.
 
I agree with you and I think a lot of people are totally missing the point. As a public servant, he’s granting different levels of access to him based on gender. He has a responsibility to treat all of his constituents fairly and he’s failing to live up to that responsibility. This does not mean he should change his rule if that’s what his heart and concience are telling him to do. But, he could be fair about it. I mean, if this policy isn’t a burden on the women around him, it should be no problem to apply it to men, too.

He should apply this rule across the board and treat both genders the same with the same explanation about his marriage. It’s actually a pretty good policy and it could open the door to a wider discussion about workplace practices and the expectations of familiarity in general. Many people have to have one on one lunch or dinner meetings with the opposite sex for work, myself included. Many people find this uncomfortable. But, we all put on our grown up pants and do it anyway because we need to make a living. That he exempts himself but only to the detriment of one class of people is not admirable or respectable.

He could really use this to lead by example and open a broader discussion. Instead, whether it is or not, it just looks like an excuse to relegate half of his colleagues, underlings, and constituents to second class citizens. For an elected official in his position, this double standard is just anti-democratic.
That’s exactly it. This isn’t going out on “dates.” The issue is that both Washington and Wall Street do a lot of momentous business in restaurants and over drinks. It is famously told that the Contract with America started to be hatched by people at restaurants who were NOT celebrating on the night of the Inauguration. Law-making takes lots of holidays, but politics does not. Ambition definitely doesn’t.

If his policy was, “I don’t go out to restaurants alone with women, I can’t treat the women differently than the men, and therefore if you want to do business with me it will be at the office,” then as Vice President he could certainly do that. He is not going to be “left out of the loop” because he doesn’t swim in the quasi-social power events without his wife at his side. He might even make it a policy that he only goes to social events where everyone is invited to bring their spouses or a social side-kick of their choice.

Of course, the other obvious point that has to be made is that of course both sides use every bit of news as an opening to denigrate their opponents. It is unfortunate, but it happens. If Mike Pence never does politics over dinner, this is a non-story…well, except that politics never goes on holiday.
 
:rolleyes: Being alone with a member of the opposite sex is not automatically a date.
Yes it is. That is the definition of a date.

But the fact of the matter is this story is taken from something that Vice President Pence said over 15 years ago. There is absolutely no evidence for any of the speculation that Pence, right now, as Vice President, or as Governor of Indiana, is corrupt or sexist that we are seeing from outlets such as the failing New York Times or Very Fake News (‘CNN’).
 
Yes it is. That is the definition of a date.

But the fact of the matter is this story is taken from something that Vice President Pence said over 15 years ago. There is absolutely no evidence for any of the speculation that Pence, right now, as Vice President, or as Governor of Indiana, is corrupt or sexist that we are seeing from outlets such as the failing New York Times or Very Fake News (‘CNN’).
That is absolutely not the definition of a date. I even just looked it up.

Date = a social or romantic appointment or engagement

I hope we can also agree that in most cases, people who use the term these days specifically mean a romantic encounter. For example, most people would not describe me going to lunch with my aunt as a date. Hence the comedic trope of someone blurting out the old fashioned saying “it’s a date!” and then being mortified or embarrassed by what now has purely romantic connotations.

Being alone with a staffer to discuss her career, her work, etc is not a social or romantic encounter. Going to the bar to casually hang out with a female staffer or colleague would be and I agree that would be imprudent.
 
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