Anglican side of the story?

[mark_a]

GKC-

Can you give us a rundown on how Wycliff may have influenced the separation between England and Rome?

 

[kallen]

"Yes, I very much agree that the Anglicans are so much like Catholics and they support almost all of their doctrine from what I have seen. Except maybe in the morality thing, and that IS of prime importance I think. This ordaining gays has got to go–and so does pro-choice and acceptance of divorce! WOW guess these reasons are ALOT------THIS is enough reason for me to be Catholic"

For Clarification:

The Anglican church is not synonomous with the Episcopal church in America. (and the Epicopal church is a mess…not traditional Anglicanism as in the Global South and the Worldwide Communion…there are Anglicans who never did associate with the American Episcopal church; in fact, the Episcopal church didn’t even use the word Anglican for a long time.)

The Worldwide Anglican Communion is the Tree, and the Episcopal church is a tiny branch. (a rotten branch at this point that is being dealt with–though the general public and many laity are not aware of everything that’s going on behind the scenes yet.) It takes a little time to weed the garden without throwing out all the good fruit.

Basically, the Worldwide leadership is on its way to chopping off the branch known as the Episcopal church. Our African brothers and sisters have already started the process and are not interested in recognizing Canterbury any longer.

My Anglican church is not associated in any way with the Episcopal church in USA.

(Also, in case some were not aware, the Anglo-Catholics do believe in transubstantiation.)

Nonetheless, it is more helpful to exercise humility when dealing with people like me, currently outside the Catholic church but in prayer and discernment, than to merely throw stones and “knock someone when they’re already down.”

Most of you have been very humble and warm. I appreciate it.

God’s Blessings and Peace.
K

 

[GKC]

kallen,

“My Anglican church is not associated in any way with the Episcopal church in USA.”

Mine either.

“(Also, in case some were not aware, the Anglo-Catholics do believe in transubstantiation.)”

Many do, such as me.

GKC

traditional Anglican

 

[sparkle]

Are their Anglican churches in the U.S. that are not associated with the Episcopal Churches in the U.S.? I’ve seen any anywhere!

How would you go about looking for one?

 

[GKC]

sparkle:

Are their Anglican churches in the U.S. that are not associated with the Episcopal Churches in the U.S.? I’ve seen any anywhere!

How would you go about looking for one?

Greetings, Sparkle,

Yes, there are, many of them. In all together too many small jurisdictions; things would be better if we could get our act together and keep it that way.

Anglican jurisdictions not part of the ECUSA, or not in communion with Canterbury (ECUSA being the offical representative province of the Anglican Communion in the US) go back to the Reformed Episcopal Church, about 140 years ago. In recent years, a large group of disaffected Episcopalians left ECUSA (aand other Anglicans left other provinces of the Anglican Communion) over liturgical matters, ladies in clerical collars and other things, beginning in about 1977. These are formed into what is generally refrred to as the Continuing Anglican movement. Others have left ECUSA over sexual matters, more recently, and have structured themselves in a variety of ways. Some have sought alternative episcopal oversight from more orthodox Anglican provinces, usually in the 3rd world. This last group is usually still in communion with Canterbury, though not part of ECUSA.

Amongst the Continuing Anglican movement, the largest groups are the Anglican Church in America, the Anglican Catholic Church, and the Anglican Province of Christ the King. The Anglican Church in America is part of the Traditional Anglican Communion, a sort of alternative world wide Anglican Communion.

Among the more recent escapees from ECUSA are the group known as the Anglican Mission in America, who are under the epsicopal oversight of some orthodox Anglican bishops from Africa.

Many of these groups, and a whole lot more, may be found here:

anglicansonline.org/communion/nic.html

If you are looking for an actual parish, many have websites listing their locations.

If all this is confusing, ask more.

GKC

 

[GKC]

mark a:

GKC-

Can you give us a rundown on how Wycliff may have influenced the separation between England and Rome?

Though Wycliff is a little off my radar screen, I’ll try. After some sleep.

GKC

 

[GKC]

mark a,

Local crisis. Reply postponed. Will return ASAP.

GKC

 

[GKC]

mark a,

Sorry for the absence. Life, like history, is complicated.

Assuming there is still interest, I’ll give a try at Wycliff, though, as I said, he’s not one of my hot spots.

The 14th century was not a high point for the Church, generally, or the Church in England, specifically. Politically, in England, it was the time when the Statutes of Praemunire and of Provisors were passed and expanded; markers on the continuing road of Englaish nationalism that can be seen back in the 13th century, and further back, to Becket.

And there was Wycliff, who functioned as a sort of more intellectual and lower key Luther of his day (died in communion with Rome, though). Wycliff operated in a relatively anti-clerical environment around the court, protected somewhat by John of Gaunt and other Lancastrians. He was more representative of a nationalist atmosphere than he was a cause of it. But some of his principles - theory of “domains”, Erastianism - became policy under Henry. As a reformer in his day, he seemed somewhat of an unpleasant individual, and something of a flop, pushing a sort of sola scriptura, a repudiation of ecclesiastical authority, and full access to the scriptures for the laity. No doubt these all prepared the ground for acceptance of Henry’s real-politick driven moves 150 years later. Mainly, in this context, he and his times are indicators that Henry did not cause an unprecedented change in the attitude toward the relationship between Rome and the Church in England.

That’s my take, anyway. Milage may vary.

GKC