Anglican Use Liturgy

[Pregustator]

The papal visit to the United Kingdom made me aware of something I hadn’t heard of before, namely the so-called “Anglican Use” liturgy, and the “Book of Divine Worship”.

I marvelled that such a thing should exist: basically a Catholic Mass based upon the Communion Service of the Anglican Book of Common Prayer, heavily influenced, it seems, by the Tridentine Mass. From the little bit of research I’ve done on this, it seems to be just a Catholic version of the “high church” Anglican liturgy.

I’ve long wondered why the “reformed” post-Vatican II Mass couldn’t have involved a less radical departure from what preceded it, and have always thought that the high Anglican service seemed more “Catholic” than the current Catholic Mass. And I have often thought to myself: “I wish Rome had just done what the Anglicans have done, instead of what they actually did.”

At any rate, I’m not so much interested in beginning a debate about how the liturgical reforms of Vatican II might have gone differently, but I would like a question answered.

In speaking with a friend of mine who is a priest about the Anglican Use liturgy, and expressing my interest in the same, he advised me that only former Anglicans would be permitted to attend such a service.

Could that possibly be right?

It just seems so utterly cockamamie to me that the Church would actually permit only Anglican converts to attend a certain type of liturgy. To me that would be like permitting only Catholics born before 1970 to attend the Extraordinary Form of Mass, or only persons from the Ukraine to attend the liturgy offered in a Ukrainian Catholic church, or only Milanese the Ambrosian Rite.

I told my friend that I was sure he was wrong, but he stuck to his guns.

Anyone know the answer?

 

[benedictgal]

I have attended the Anglican-use Mass. In fact, I used to attend it quite often when I lived in Central Texas. It is quite beautiful.

 

[malphono]

In speaking with a friend of mine who is a priest about the Anglican Use liturgy, and expressing my interest in the same, he advised me that only former Anglicans would be permitted to attend such a service.

Could that possibly be right?

It just seems so utterly cockamamie to me that the Church would actually permit only Anglican converts to attend a certain type of liturgy. To me that would be like permitting only Catholics born before 1970 to attend the Extraordinary Form of Mass, or only persons from the Ukraine to attend the liturgy offered in a Ukrainian Catholic church, or only Milanese the Ambrosian Rite.

I told my friend that I was sure he was wrong, but he stuck to his guns.

No, it’s not correct, and yes, it would be cockamamie . The examples you gave are are quite spot-on.

Perhaps what he meant is that only former Anglicans may be enrolled parishioners. As I understand things, that is the case now in the Anglican Use parishes now, and will likely continue at least for a time as Anglicanorum Coeticus is gradually implemented.

Not being eligible for membership in a parish is a far cry from being prohibited from assisting at Mass in a parish. As long as it’s licitly offered according to a valid and approved Rite of the church, Mass is Mass.

 

[Pregustator]

I

have attended the Anglican-use Mass. In fact, I used to attend it quite often when I lived in Central Texas. It is quite beautiful.

I’d be very interested to read any observations you’d care to share. From the images I’ve seen, it appears that the Anglican Use liturgy is heavily influenced–at least with respect to externals–by the pre-Vatican II Tridentine Mass. But I would imagine that there must be some forms of the celebration that more nearly resemble, say, a “broad church” Episcopalian liturgy. I don’t know that to be the case, I’m just guessing. Or is it all Oxford Movement “high” liturgy?

Perhaps what he meant is that only former Anglicans may be enrolled parishioners.

Perhaps, but that still seems odd…y’know. Is the Anglican Use liturgy considered a separate rite, on par with the Byzantine Rite? Or is it just another form of the Roman Rite. The latter would seem to be the case.

 

[ConstantineTG]

Anglican Use is (or will be) the third most regular expression of the Roman Rite after the OF and EF. They will not become a sui juris Church with their own rite. What is happening right now is there are a handful of parishes around the US where there are former Anglican, now Catholic priests who conduct Anglican Use Masses for the faithful Catholics, majority of which are former Anglicans. This is limited in the US today but pretty soon will be used around the world as the Traditional Anglican Communion reunites with Rome. Already the TAC in the US, Canada and Australia has applied for full communion.

So they are Roman Catholics and are a part of the Roman Church and uses the Roman Rite. There is not nor there are plans to have an Anglican Rite nor recognize a sui juris Anglican Church.

 

[runningdude]

In speaking with a friend of mine who is a priest about the Anglican Use liturgy, and expressing my interest in the same, he advised me that only former Anglicans would be permitted to attend such a service.

I think what the priest meant was that only former Anglican clergy would be allowed to celebrate the Anglican-use liturgy. Or, if not, then he was mistaken. The Anglican-use mass will be open to anyone who may receive communion in the Catholic Church!

 

[Digitonomy]

I’d be very interested to read any observations you’d care to share. From the images I’ve seen, it appears that the Anglican Use liturgy is heavily influenced–at least with respect to externals–by the pre-Vatican II Tridentine Mass. But I would imagine that there must be some forms of the celebration that more nearly resemble, say, a “broad church” Episcopalian liturgy. I don’t know that to be the case, I’m just guessing. Or is it all Oxford Movement “high” liturgy?

My discernment of various liturgical traditions is not especially astute, so I can’t give you any specifics about your questions. The one mass that I attended, however, was a very solemn 2 hour, 20 minute affair - I think the Credo and Our Father were sung, for instance. A chunk of the women present wore veils - maybe 10-15% - far more than one would expect in your average parish.

Pregustator:

Perhaps, but that still seems odd…y’know. Is the Anglican Use liturgy considered a separate rite, on par with the Byzantine Rite? Or is it just another form of the Roman Rite. The latter would seem to be the case.

The latter is indeed the case - I think it is similar to the rites of some religious orders in that way.

There is a forum from a year or so ago when Anglicanorum Coetibus was released, which has a lot of good information and speculation. Read it quickly, though, archived forums have a way of disappearing sometimes.

 

[ConstantineTG]

I think what the priest meant was that only former Anglican clergy would be allowed to celebrate the Anglican-use liturgy. Or, if not, then he was mistaken. The Anglican-use mass will be open to anyone who may receive communion in the Catholic Church!

Right.
Only former Anglican priests may say the Anglican Use Mass
Only former Anglican laity may become members of an Anglican Use parish

Any Catholic can go to an Anglican Use Mass and receive Communion.

Anglican Use is simply the same Anglican Mass but with minor corrections to ensure that the Liturgy relfects the faith of the Catholic Church.

 

[BernadetteM]

Any Catholic priest can say the Anglican Use Mass for Anglican Use parishes. The Bishop of San Antonio celebrated the Anglican Use Mass himself. I believe that there is still part of a video showing the Cardinal/Archbishop, I am not sure of his title, on the web.

There are many Latin Rite Catholics in some of the AU parishes who are registered members. It depends on the Bishop of that diocese whether they can register as members, but that doesn’t stop Catholics from attending these parishes on a regular basis.

As of today Rome has appointed a Pastoral Delegate for the US to help implement the Ordinariates which are to be established. This has also happened in other countries.

At this point the Anglican Use liturgy is another use under the Latin Rite, we don’t know what the future will hold, whether in time if it grows very large that they someday won’t have their own Rite.

Pope Benedict is very supportive of the Ordinariate and even spoke of it when he was in England. I believe he wants to bring back some of the reverence that has been lost in the Church these last 40 years.

Also the Anglican Use liturgy will probably be revised and hopefully it will follow more closely to the Anglican Missal or another missal using the Sarum/Gregorian Canon, which is the one used for the EF. The Anglican Use Canon used today is the Sarum/Gregorian one.

Only time will tell how everything works out. There has been much opposition by some Anglicans and even Catholic Bishops towards the Ordinariate. I can’t read the hearts of either of them, but just guessing the Anglicans against it are anti Catholic, although claiming to “Catholic” and the Bishops only want the OF liturgy and want nothing to do with the more traditional forms or practices.

Yours in the Hearts of Jesus and Mary

Bernadette

 

[ConstantineTG]

Any Catholic priest can say the Anglican Use Mass for Anglican Use parishes. The Bishop of San Antonio celebrated the Anglican Use Mass himself. I believe that there is still part of a video showing the Cardinal/Archbishop, I am not sure of his title, on the web.

I thought they limit it to priests who were Anglicans, probably because of familiarity with the liturgy. Aren’t Anglican Use Mass available only in former Anglican parishes that have converted?

There are many Latin Rite Catholics in some of the AU parishes who are registered members. It depends on the Bishop of that diocese whether they can register as members, but that doesn’t stop Catholics from attending these parishes on a regular basis.

I think its just the canonical matter that Roman Catholics are not canoncially part of an Anglican Use Parish, and only former-Anglicans can be. But yeah, nothing stops you from regularly attending the Mass there, the same way that you can regularly attend Mass in any other Catholic parish, regardless of Rite, sui juris, or geographical territory.

As of today Rome has appointed a Pastoral Delegate for the US to help implement the Ordinariates which are to be established. This has also happened in other countries.

Yup. Although I heard that Canada may receive an Ordinariate first. This would primarily be for TAC but may also include some individual Anglican parishes. I am not aware though if there are other applicants for Full Communion.

At this point the Anglican Use liturgy is another use under the Latin Rite, we don’t know what the future will hold, whether in time if it grows very large that they someday won’t have their own Rite.

They probably won’t. There is no historical basis for having a Anglican Catholic Church sui juris. I also don’t think the Church would want to add new sui juris Churches. My curiosity lies in the Anglican Use Mass beyond the converted parishes.

Pope Benedict is very supportive of the Ordinariate and even spoke of it when he was in England. I believe he wants to bring back some of the reverence that has been lost in the Church these last 40 years.

Also the Anglican Use liturgy will probably be revised and hopefully it will follow more closely to the Anglican Missal or another missal using the Sarum/Gregorian Canon, which is the one used for the EF. The Anglican Use Canon used today is the Sarum/Gregorian one.

Only time will tell how everything works out. There has been much opposition by some Anglicans and even Catholic Bishops towards the Ordinariate. I can’t read the hearts of either of them, but just guessing the Anglicans against it are anti Catholic, although claiming to “Catholic” and the Bishops only want the OF liturgy and want nothing to do with the more traditional forms or practices.

Yours in the Hearts of Jesus and Mary

Bernadette

I read updates from the TAC here in Canada. In their latest newsletter, it seems some priests seceded from TAC because they didn’t want to join the Catholic Church. But what becomes of them? TAC seceded from the Anglican Communioin because they didn’t like their direction. I wonder where those priests will go?

 

[geovet]

They just become another abc splinter church. Pick there new leader or become an independent church. There are many around.

 

[Rolltide]

Perhaps, but that still seems odd…y’know. Is the Anglican Use liturgy considered a separate rite, on par with the Byzantine Rite? Or is it just another form of the Roman Rite. The latter would seem to be the case.

Here’s a list of the forms of the Roman Rite (Eastern rites used in the Eastern Catholic Church are NOT included on this list)

Roman (Latin) liturgical tradition

1. Ordinary Form (This is the form of the Mass that you will find in virtually every Latin Catholic Church almost every day of the week. This Mass has existed since the mid-1960s, ever since reforms were made following the Second Vatican Council.)
2. Extraordinary Form (This is the form of the Mass that was used in virtually every Latin Catholic Church from the Middle Ages until the mid-1960s. It may still be said in Catholic Churches should a priest choose to use it. Some of the differences from the Ordinary Form include the exclusive use of the Latin language (except for the homily), the receipt of Communion exclusively on the tongue and kneeling, the priest facing the same direction as the people (toward the altar and God) so he can lead the people in prayer, no lay participation on the altar, and usually, no responses by lay people.)
3. Ambrosian Rite (Only permitted in the Archdiocese of Milan)
4. Mozarabic Rite (Only permitted in the Cathedral of Toledo, Spain and a few surrounding churches of the diocese)
5. Bragan Rite (Only permitted in the Archdiocese of Braga, Portugal)
6. Anglican-Use Mass (This form was once only permitted in the extremely rare circumstance in which an Anglican priest converted to Catholicism and brings his entire parish with him. In that event, a parish could continue to use the Anglican liturgy, with corrections to make it conform with Catholic teachings. It was originally meant as a transitional liturgy, and upon the death of the pastor, the church would revert to the Ordinary Form. With the recent provisions announced by the Vatican to allow Anglicans into the Catholic Church and keep their traditions, it seems that the Anglican-Use will now become both far more widespread AND permanent.)

Rites of Religious Orders

1. Dominican Rite
2. Carthusian Rite
3. Carmelite Rite
4. Cisternian Rite

Note: Technically, the forms of the Roman liturgy listed above are NOT different rites, but variations of the SAME rite (the Roman Rite), although people do tend to commonly use the term somewhat erroneously in this context. The differences between the Roman “rites” are FAR less than those between the Roman liturgy and any of the Eastern Rites.)

 

[BernadetteM]

Dear ConstantineTG,

I will try to answer your questions to the best of my abililty. I am a former Anglo Catholic and have been praying for this for many years. This movement really began over 28 years ago in Los Angeles California by 4 priests who went to Rome and asked for whole parishes to be admitted to the Church bringing their Patrimony, i.e. traditions and liturgy. The Pope approved it and it is called the Pastoral Provision/Anglican Use. Because of on going talks with Anglicans in England it was decided that it would be allowed only in the US. I personally believe that Pope John Paul II and Pope Benedict have watched closely to see how this would work out. Although the Anglican Use (AU) has stayed small, it is due to liberal Bishops who would not allow it in their dioceses. The ones who did have been very supportive of AU parishes. This is why I believe that Pope Benedict made the offer of the Ordinariate.

1. Any Catholic priest can celebrate the AU Mass, not of couse in parishes which only have the OF. Although there are several Catholic churches that allow them to celebrate Mass and their other devotions in their parishes. In Missouri an AU priest is the Pastor over both the AU congregation and the OF congregation.

Our Lady of the Atonement, the largest parish, at one time celebrated the TLM, but due to problems with the people attending the Bishop stopped the Pastor from celebrating it. He does still offer the Latin Mass on Sunday. AU priests can celebrate any of the Latin Rite useses.

1. I do know that some of the parishes do have registered members who are Latin Rite Catholics, this is up to the discretion of the Bishop. In the future from some of the contents of the Apostolic Constitution it seems like at some point any Catholic will be allowed to be members of these parishes. We must wait and see.
2. No one knows which country will get the first Ordinariate. I am sure that certain AU and Anglican clergy might be privy to this information, but must be silent at this time. Although TAC is the main group, because they approached Rome many years ago, there are several others. Plus the AU parishes wanted this to be worldwide when they first approached Rome and hopefully the US Ordinary will be chosen from one whom I consider very special and has done great things and would be perfect as our Ordinary. Indivuals can also apply to the Ordinariate if there is no parish for them to attend.

4.No one knows if at some point in time the AU won’t have their own Rite. It might never come to being, but nothing is impossible. It is in God’s hands not ours.

5.I won’t go into Canada, but if you really are interested in knowing more you can go to The Anglo Catholic website and read what happened in Canada. Also what just happened in the US with the ACA. You must remember that whether one is Catholic or Anglican we are all imperfect and it includes priests and Bishops. Among the different groups there were Anglicans who are actually anti Catholic, but consider them selves Catholic. The ones who choose to leave have at least 12 or more Continuing Anglican groups to choose from. Hopefully some of them will realize that the Catholic Church is the Church started by our Lord Jesus Christ and come into the Ordinariate and be truely Catholic.

God Bless

Bernadette

 

[beckers]

Tell your friend he knows nothing. I go to an anglican Use parish. Its called out lady of Walsingham here in Houston. I am also roman catholic and perfer to go the anglican use mass because i fell in love with the litgury and the people there. The mass is catholic with an anglican twist but 100% all catholic. Everyone is welcome and I am registered parishioner and serve on the altar guild. Here is the Mass parts so you can see for yourself. walsingham-church.org/mass.htm

All of our priest are Roman Catholic priest. Priest from our diocese come over to celebrate mass when our priest is out. The Cardinal and bishops have come to celebrate mass at our church many times.

Also check out anglicanuse.org/ the have a meeting ever summer were all the anglican use parishes in America get together and talk. Very interesting especially last summer because there was a congergation of sisters who wanted to convert!

 

[FrDavid96]

I don’t think that Latin Rite priests are able to celebrate the Anglican liturgies. To concelebrate with an Anglican presider, or to otherwise participate, would not be an issue though.

The norms in Anglicanorum Coetibus adoremus.org/AnglicanorumCoetibus.html part III allow for clerics in the ordinariate to use the Anglican liturgies, but I can’t find anything permitting other Catholic priests to do so.

I’ve seen a few posts here saying that any Catholic priest can use the approved Anglican forms. Can anyone post any references to that?

 

[malphono]

I don’t think that Latin Rite priests are able to celebrate the Anglican liturgies. To concelebrate with an Anglican presider, or to otherwise participate, would not be an issue though.

The norms in Anglicanorum Coetibus adoremus.org/AnglicanorumCoetibus.html part III allow for clerics in the ordinariate to use the Anglican liturgies, but I can’t find anything permitting other Catholic priests to do so.

I’ve seen a few posts here saying that any Catholic priest can use the approved Anglican forms. Can anyone post any references to that?

Since any priest of the AU may celebrate according to the EF and the OF as well, it stands to logic that the reverse would be true as well. That said, though, I would imagine that it’s not without some restrictions. In the current situation, AU parishes are under the jurisdiction of the territorial local Ordinary. As such, I believe he has competent authority in the matter. Let’s say that Fr. X is pastor of an AU parish and he is there alone. He breaks his leg. Fr Y is pastor at a nearby territorial parish. Now, Fr Y would not be allowed to offer the AU on his own initiative or in his own parish church, but the local Ordinary could, I believe, allow Fr Y to fill-in for Fr X and thus offer the AU for the AU parish.

As Anglicanorum Coetibus is implemented, I would suggest that both the local territorial bishop and the competent authority in the Ordinariate will have complimentary roles in the process.

 

[FrDavid96]

Since any priest of the AU may celebrate according to the EF and the OF as well, it stands to logic that the reverse would be true as well. That said, though, I would imagine that it’s not without some restrictions. In the current situation, AU parishes are under the jurisdiction of the territorial local Ordinary. As such, I believe he has competent authority in the matter. Let’s say that Fr. X is pastor of an AU parish and he is there alone. He breaks his leg. Fr Y is pastor at a nearby territorial parish. Now, Fr Y would not be allowed to offer the AU on his own initiative or in his own parish church, but the local Ordinary could, I believe, allow Fr Y to fill-in for Fr X and thus offer the AU for the AU parish.

As Anglicanorum Coetibus is implemented, I would suggest that both the local territorial bishop and the competent authority in the Ordinariate will have complimentary roles in the process.

We can’t just assume that the reverse would be true.

The new norms do say that the local territorial pastor has faculties to supply whatever is needed if the Anglican pastor is incapacitated, but they don’t say what form that priest may (or may not) use.

I think we have to go back to the documents that permit the use of the Anglican liturgical books and see what they have to say. I don’t have any sources, so I can’t speak to this.

For a practical example: Let’s say I’m the local territorial parish. Early Sunday morning I get a phone call that the local Anglican pastor was rushed to the hospital. Surely, I can go over to the Anglican parish and offer Mass for them–I would not even have to contact the bishop or the Anglican ordinary for permission (although keeping both informed would be necessary of course). However, I would be very uncomfortable just walking into the church and saying the Anglican Mass without any preparation–so much that I just wouldn’t do it. Instead, I would use the Ordinary Form.

The local ordinary has competence–no doubt on that part. But there is still the question of “which priests may he permit to use the Anglican form?” That’s the question that I’ve never seen answered. And priests cannot simply assume the faculties to celebrate according to different forms. This has to be granted to priests specifically one way or another.

 

[malphono]

We can’t just assume that the reverse would be true.

Well, I think it’s true in theory, but within the limitations and discretion of the competent local authority. It’s not quite the same as “bi-ritual” faculties, since we do not have a situation where there are to official “Rites” (let alone Churches sui juris). The oddity is in the imbalance: it’s only incumbent on one side (in this case the non-AU priest) while the the other side (the AU priest) has no need for special permissions.

The local ordinary has competence–no doubt on that part. But there is still the question of “which priests may he permit to use the Anglican form?” That’s the question that I’ve never seen answered. And priests cannot simply assume the faculties to celebrate according to different forms. This has to be granted to priests specifically one way or another.

Yes, no question there, at least not in the current circumstances. That’s why I said (emphasis added) “Fr Y would not be allowed to offer the AU on his own initiative or in his own parish church, but the local Ordinary could, I believe, allow Fr Y to fill-in for Fr X and thus offer the AU for the AU parish.”

How this will play out when Anglicanorum Coetibus is implemented remains to be seen, but I suspect it will be something similar, perhaps closer to “bi-ritual” faculties granted to both sides.

 

[Pregustator]

This entire conversation is fascinating to me. Between this dialogue and the small amount of research I have been able to do on the internet about the Anglican Use liturgy, I’ve learned a great deal.

I did re-approach my priest friend about the matter and it seems we were on two different pages, somehow: he was talking about priests and I was talking about laity. He confirmed that, indeed, any Catholic was free to attend an Anglican Use Mass, but explained that only former Episcopalian parishes that have “swum the Tiber” may celebrate it. He, for example, couldn’t simply abandon the Ordinary Form of Mass in his parish and opt to go all Anglican Use on everyone, instead. So that makes sense; I think I get it.

Rolltide:

Here’s a list of the forms of the Roman Rite (Eastern rites used in the Eastern Catholic Church are NOT included on this list)

Roman (Latin) liturgical tradition

1. Ordinary Form (This is the form of the Mass that you will find in virtually every Latin Catholic Church almost every day of the week. This Mass has existed since the mid-1960s, ever since reforms were made following the Second Vatican Council.)
2. Extraordinary Form (This is the form of the Mass that was used in virtually every Latin Catholic Church from the Middle Ages until the mid-1960s. It may still be said in Catholic Churches should a priest choose to use it. Some of the differences from the Ordinary Form include the exclusive use of the Latin language (except for the homily), the receipt of Communion exclusively on the tongue and kneeling, the priest facing the same direction as the people (toward the altar and God) so he can lead the people in prayer, no lay participation on the altar, and usually, no responses by lay people.)
3. Ambrosian Rite (Only permitted in the Archdiocese of Milan)
4. Mozarabic Rite (Only permitted in the Cathedral of Toledo, Spain and a few surrounding churches of the diocese)
5. Bragan Rite (Only permitted in the Archdiocese of Braga, Portugal)
6. Anglican-Use Mass (This form was once only permitted in the extremely rare circumstance in which an Anglican priest converted to Catholicism and brings his entire parish with him. In that event, a parish could continue to use the Anglican liturgy, with corrections to make it conform with Catholic teachings. It was originally meant as a transitional liturgy, and upon the death of the pastor, the church would revert to the Ordinary Form. With the recent provisions announced by the Vatican to allow Anglicans into the Catholic Church and keep their traditions, it seems that the Anglican-Use will now become both far more widespread AND permanent.)

Rites of Religious Orders

1. Dominican Rite
2. Carthusian Rite
3. Carmelite Rite
4. Cisternian Rite

Note: Technically, the forms of the Roman liturgy listed above are NOT different rites, but variations of the SAME rite (the Roman Rite), although people do tend to commonly use the term somewhat erroneously in this context. The differences between the Roman “rites” are FAR less than those between the Roman liturgy and any of the Eastern Rites.)

That was very helpful; thank you!

I’m glad to read the remarks of those of you who have predicted more widespread celebration of the Anglican Use liturgy. As I mentioned in my original post, I’m no big fan of the way Mass is typically celebrated, to be honest. I know some people here will have a fit over that, but I really think the so-called “OF” Mass lacks something. It leaves me cold, in any case.

To me, what I’ve seen of the Anglican Use liturgies is what, I think, one might have hoped for from the liturgical reforms of the 1960s. All of that splendid Catholic solemnity and grandeur is maintained, but the Mass is in the vernacular and so forth. I’ve done the Tridentine Mass in the past–I attended it for years, in fact–but it’s like living in the past; like being in a museum. Every “EF” Mass looks like 1955; I’m always waiting for Wally and the Beaver to show up. That doesn’t interest me, I’m afraid, on the one hand.

On the other hand, the current Mass, the so-called “OF” Mass…man. Just lame. between the way the priests say it, the ugly vestments they wear, the pottery, the glassware, the 15 Eucharistic Ministers, the slovenly altar boys, the guitars, stupid music…basta. Even when there is a minimum of ugly or lame surrounding the celebration of the “OF”, there’s seldom ever any solemnity. At best–from my own experiences, mind you–the “OF” is just…boring.

The Anglican Use liturgy seems to feature elements of the reform coupled with traditional pomp, circumstance, and solemnity. The Anglican Use seems to be what I’ve longed for, liturgically speaking. A wedge of brie compared to the slice of American cheese that is the “OF”. I know some will say, “the OF can be performed with just as much pomp and solemnity as the AU or the EF.” I imagine it can, yes…but it never is. A very casual culture has arisen around the “OF” and that casualness has almost become inherent in it.

Alas, in my case, there are no Anglican Use venues nearby, so, as I say, I hope some of you are right: I hope the “AU” becomes more widespread. It’s not only a solution for Anglican converts, but also for lifelong Catholics who, without wanting to return to the days of Latin and the poodle skirt, require more pomp and circumstance in their Sunday liturgy than the typical diocesan celebration of the “OF” allows.

 

[FrDavid96]

Well, I think it’s true in theory, but within the limitations and discretion of the competent local authority. It’s not quite the same as “bi-ritual” faculties, since we do not have a situation where there are to official “Rites” (let alone Churches sui juris). The oddity is in the imbalance: it’s only incumbent on one side (in this case the non-AU priest) while the the other side (the AU priest) has no need for special permissions.

Yet, that’s just it. Priests do not have faculties “in theory.” We have to be granted those faculties by competent authority.

Yes, no question there, at least not in the current circumstances. That’s why I said (emphasis added) “Fr Y would not be allowed to offer the AU on his own initiative or in his own parish church, but the local Ordinary could, I believe, allow Fr Y to fill-in for Fr X and thus offer the AU for the AU parish.”

How this will play out when Anglicanorum Coetibus is implemented remains to be seen, but I suspect it will be something similar, perhaps closer to “bi-ritual” faculties granted to both sides.

Please understand that we can’t just “suspect” or theorize when it comes to faculties. Sure, we can speculate about what “might happen” in the future, but present or future we still have to act within the law. It’s not a question of how this is going to “play out” it’s a question of what the law does say, and what the law will say.

Again, when it comes to the authority of the local bishop, we have to see what the law actually says. Whether or not he can authorize an OF priest to use the Anglican form depends entirely on what sort of permission the Holy See has given to local bishops. That’s why I’m asking if anyone here has more concrete information on what those documents from the Holy See actually say. We can’t speculate when it comes to this sort of thing.