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GKC
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Deleted double post.
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GKC
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jpaul1953
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Dear Hermit,
To the best of my knowledge, the Anglican church is the original Church of England which King HenryVIII established because he refused to obey the Bishop of Rome (our Pope), who stated that the King could not divorce (what a reason to start a church)…
This is what lead the next King, King James, to have the Bible translated into english with as much original text as possible (which was very little). This is the KJV (King James Version) of the Holy Bible.
The Episcopal Church is the Anglican Church anew I believe.
All the Protestant Churches that have priests and wear vestments are the original protesters of the Catholic Church and they are the closest of all to our beliefs without being Roman Catholic. The major differences is no allegiance to the pope, the real presence in the Eucharist, Confession, Purgatory, and the Perpetual Virginity of Mary.
May God bless us all
jpaul1953
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GKC
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This is a common question. But this answer is not accurate.
Originally, Anglicanism meant only the Church of England, which, as the British Empire spread, set up colonial missions, then subordiante jurisidictions, and, eventually, spun off Churches that were fully independent, self-governing, but in communion with the CoE, (with Canterbury, as it was said) as a mother Church. This is the official Anglican Communion, and comprises 38 self-governing, independent jurisdictions, plus a couple of smaller entities. These independent Churches mostly use the term Anglican in their name (Anglican Church of Canada, of Australia, of South Africa, etc), but not all do. In America, the Church that is in the official Anglican Communion is the Episcopal Church. To this is added, in recent years, those Anglicans who have left their respective Communion Churches, for doctrinal reasons, some of whom are in communion with Canterbury, and some who are not.
Thus, Anglicans are those who trace their heritage to the original Church of England, and who maintain the Anglican form of episcopal oversight, and liturgy, in some form. The Church of England is Anglican. So is the Episcopal Church. And many other entities, as well.
In like manner, your comment on Henry and his quest for a decree of nullity needs some work, but I’m in a hurry.
GKC
Originally, Anglicanism meant only the Church of England, which, as the British Empire spread, set up colonial missions, then subordiante jurisidictions, and, eventually, spun off Churches that were fully independent, self-governing, but in communion with the CoE, (with Canterbury, as it was said) as a mother Church. This is the official Anglican Communion, and comprises 38 self-governing, independent jurisdictions, plus a couple of smaller entities. These independent Churches mostly use the term Anglican in their name (Anglican Church of Canada, of Australia, of South Africa, etc), but not all do. In America, the Church that is in the official Anglican Communion is the Episcopal Church. To this is added, in recent years, those Anglicans who have left their respective Communion Churches, for doctrinal reasons, some of whom are in communion with Canterbury, and some who are not.
Thus, Anglicans are those who trace their heritage to the original Church of England, and who maintain the Anglican form of episcopal oversight, and liturgy, in some form. The Church of England is Anglican. So is the Episcopal Church. And many other entities, as well.
In like manner, your comment on Henry and his quest for a decree of nullity needs some work, but I’m in a hurry.
GKC
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luckyfredsdad
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luckyfredsdad
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The major differences is no allegiance to the pope, the real presence in the Eucharist, Confession, Purgatory, and the Perpetual Virginity of Mary.
May God bless us all
jpaul1953
**Regarding your comments above! Traditional Anglicans have always believed in the perpetual Virginity of Mary! Before the Reformation the question was never in doubt and at the beginning the Anglican Synod placed their trust and faith in the Seven Ecumenical Councils as our standard. Since then our Bishops and scholars have always stressed our belief the in the subject,i.e. Field, Ken and Stafford are just a sample.
Luckyfredsdad**
May God bless us all
jpaul1953
**Regarding your comments above! Traditional Anglicans have always believed in the perpetual Virginity of Mary! Before the Reformation the question was never in doubt and at the beginning the Anglican Synod placed their trust and faith in the Seven Ecumenical Councils as our standard. Since then our Bishops and scholars have always stressed our belief the in the subject,i.e. Field, Ken and Stafford are just a sample.
Luckyfredsdad**
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defenderoftruth
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Uh please don’t claim to know what Anglicans believe when you have really no idea…
We do very much believe in the Real Presence (because it’s scriptural and patristic) I would use the term transmutation to describe it instead of transubstantiation since that is the word St. Justin Martyr used.
That I find highly offensive, that “oh you anglicans don’t believe in the real presence”…WRONG!
Really can you people be a little less snooty and rude?! I guess I should just leave since we will never be “catholics” to you, or “you have invalid orders” etc. etc. etc.
Charity to others is just a little too much to ask I guess…
We do very much believe in the Real Presence (because it’s scriptural and patristic) I would use the term transmutation to describe it instead of transubstantiation since that is the word St. Justin Martyr used.
That I find highly offensive, that “oh you anglicans don’t believe in the real presence”…WRONG!
Really can you people be a little less snooty and rude?! I guess I should just leave since we will never be “catholics” to you, or “you have invalid orders” etc. etc. etc.
Charity to others is just a little too much to ask I guess…
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GKC
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As you know, Anglicans believe all sorts of things, including what you state here. And things even more Anglo-Catholic oriented, too.Uh please don’t claim to know what Anglicans believe when you have really no idea…
We do very much believe in the Real Presence (because it’s scriptural and patristic) I would use the term transmutation to describe it instead of transubstantiation since that is the word St. Justin Martyr used.
That I find highly offensive, that “oh you anglicans don’t believe in the real presence”…WRONG!
Really can you people be a little less snooty and rude?! I guess I should just leave since we will never be “catholics” to you, or “you have invalid orders” etc. etc. etc.
Charity to others is just a little too much to ask I guess…
OTOH, some believe other stuff. Anglicans are a diverse lot, and that’s a description, not a commendation.
It’s good to point out, repeatedly (as is necessary), that generalizing about what Anglicans believe is a bootless task. You’ll be wrong, generally, and more so today than 40 years ago. But, at the same time, it is illogical to fault a RC for affirming what the RCC requires to be affirmed, within its boundaries. And that includes things like Apostolicae Curae., and what being Catholic means.
GKC
Anglicanus Catholicus
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pipper
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A little lesson in English history Henry viii was suceeded by King Edward vi the next king. Edward came to the throne throne quite young and the realm was governed by very Protestant Calvinists, he died young and was succeeded by Mary Tudor who returned Great Britain to the Roman Catholic church, and died without issue… Mary was succeeded by Elisabeth I also a Tudor, and also died childless. Then the country came under the rule of King James I and VI of Scotland who was a Stewart. Then he was suceeded by Charles Stewart the first. Charles I was beheaded during the UK civil war, when Oliver Cromwell became a Presbyterian dictator. The Englisn quickly tired of Presbyterian dour and invited Charles Stewart the second to return to the throne and Restore the monarchy,
This is probably TMI,and it is only a glance at English history.
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GKC
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Delraek
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I have a question regarding the Anglican faith. Is there a definitive ruling on faith and morals - maybe something like the Catechism of the Catholic Church? I’m just wondering if the whole allowing “actively gay” men to be ordained as bishops, or women ordination are things that could be (or currently are) accepted or not… like some of the Episcopal churches here.
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GKC
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There is no Anglican analog to the CCC. For every doctrinal issue you might think of, you will find at least one Anglican who will affirm it, one who will deny it and two who will ignore it. The issues of ordination of non-celibate homosexuals, as well as that of rejecting the historical Christian position on homosexuality in general, as well as the attempt to ordain females, are among the more prominent topics that have fractured the Anglican world in the past 40 years.
GKC
Anglicanus Catholicus
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luckyfredsdad
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DELRAEK!
**The Faith of the Anglican Church is that of the Church of the ages. It is the Revelation of Christ once made to the Saints,
Recorded in Holy Scriptures
and Explained, interpreted and completed by the Holy Fathers of the Seven Councils and the Fathers of the early Centuries.
This is the Faith the Church holds to, if people, Bishops,Clerics or Laity fall away from the faith they are no longer Anglicans as such ,but rather Neo Anglicans .They can never cease to be catholics having been properly baptised, but this is their problem. The Church is still the Body of Christ whilst it hold to Apostolic FAITH and Order!
**
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GKC
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Yeah, but at least there’s something you can point to, that all of them should be affirming.Ha ha - You’d actually find many poorly catechized Catholics respond in the same way!
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chris_molter
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Moreso than that, they can ignore it or hold mutually contradicting views on it and remain fully Anglican according to the competent ecclesial authorities in Anglicanism. It’s not even a matter of the discipline not being strictly applied like you often find in Catholicism, it’s that (A) there is no defined boundary of orthodox belief in and (B) no disciplinary tool to be applied even if there WERE a defined boundary.
It’s hard for Catholics to imagine the frustration that conservative minded Anglicans (especially clergy) are going through right now.
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GKC
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Gottle_of_Geer
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No she did not. She returned England & Wales (& presumably Ireland, which was under the English crown after 1537) to the Papal obedience - not Scotland. Scotland was an independent nation, with its own line of kings. & the Tudors were never rulers of Scotland. So Scotland had its own Reformation (thanks to the bishops, who woke up to the danger of Protestantism far too late). Catholics have hardly ever gone astray without negligence by the bishops.
The rest of that is more or less OK overall. BTW, rulers, even if they belong to dynasties, don’t take the name of their dynasty as part of the Royal style - rather as Popes do not take their surnames as part of their style: Benedict XVI is not Pope Ratzinger, nor is he Pope Benedict XVI Ratzinger. (Those who talk of Pope+surname - as in “Pope Ratzinger” - should IMHO be shot for being so ignorant.)
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Gottle_of_Geer
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This comprehensiveness is one of the great strengths of Anglicanism, even though it can also be a weakness. The Roman model of the Church is not self-evidently desirable nor self-evidently alone authentic. It’s a rather late development - not the only model of the Church that has ever been. Much could be said for both models, & has been.
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pipper
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Yes I know all of that, I was trying for a short overlook. I know of the Scots reformation and John Knox who liked to insult his annointed Queen Mary, calling her a “Papist whore” and worse, and I know that Elizabeth had her beheaded. Those were bloody times in history in general.
Many Protestants like to go on about Foxes Book of Martyr, and yet like to ignore or gloss over the many English Catholic martyrs who were beheaded on Elizabeth’s orders.
I was merely trying to help people keep the dynasties straight, hope that passes your inspection. I am sorry but if you read the posts you would know that I am mentally challeged since I had a bad stroke. I think I am doimg fairly well under the circumstances.
Tell me, have YOU had a stroke, are YOU mentally challenged?
Trying to have patience and Christian Charity, Pip
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