Anglicanism — Something that happened to me recently

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I didn’t know where to post it, so I deemed it best suited to this forum, as some discussion could arise.

As mentioned in earlier posts, I work at an Anglican parish but am planning to convert to Catholicism once I am free to do so. As part of my work, I recently designed some brochure that explains what Anglicanism and the CofE are, so we could hand it out to people who didn’t know. We get that question quite often, in fact. The brochure comprised a section on basic data (founding and structure), history, beliefs and our parish. Obviously, I found myself in the situation of having to bring these things together: Historical accuracy and truth, as well as proper wording, but also not endorsing something that I would disagree with in light of Catholic teaching. I was quite happy with the result, as was our priest, so it went into printing.

In the brochure, I listed a few excerpts from the Ten and Thrity-nine Articles, also detailing doctrinal change within Anglicanism over time. (Purgatory, Saints, etc.)

Then, not too long after, it was brought to my attention that the document had sparked controversy and quite heated criticism from both parishioners as well as senior clergy visiting. Though I only know of one confirmed passage that they took issue with, there may have been others, all of which I shall quote briefly below.

Confirmed:
The Church of England …] was founded in 1534 by declaring King Henry VIII the “Supreme Head of the English Church”, thereby separating from the Catholic Church under Pope Clement VII.
Possible others:
Anglicans believe themselves to be “part of the Catholic Church”, so in order to distinguish this belief from the historical Catholic Church, they tend to call the latter “the Roman Catholic Church”.
From the summarised excerpt of the 39 Articles that I produced
  • The “Church of Rome” has erred in matters of Faith.
  • Purgatory, Veneration of Saints and other “romish” doctrines are false.
As it was really only a very brief summary of what Anglicanism is and most of the brochure was made up of information on our parish, there wouldn’t be much room for points to disagree with. The whole thing was meant to fit onto a double-sided A4 page.

Now for the comments these things sparked, leaving the people involved anonymous:

“These are wrong! Like WRONG!” (from someone who had signed off on it!)
“False”
“Potentially misleading”
“Probably problematic in ecumenical relations”

Do you see anything wrong or badly worded in them? What are your thoughts on the reactions and the points delivered above?

I’d be interested to hear what you have to say. 🙂
 
Do Anglicans really believe themselves to be “part of the Catholic Church” ? I thought protestant churches want to disavow anything “Catholic”. Without knowing exactly what Anglicans believe, It’s hard to say what is wrong with those statements. Is Henry VIII an issue with some people? Is there a difference in theology between “Anglican Communion” and “Anglo-Catholics” ? It seems like there are different sects within Anglicanism that disagree with one another. Maybe that is the problem here - differing theologies within your community. :confused:
 
Do Anglicans really believe themselves to be “part of the Catholic Church” ? I thought protestant churches want to disavow anything “Catholic”. Without knowing exactly what Anglicans believe, It’s hard to say what is wrong with those statements. Is Henry VIII an issue with some people? Is there a difference in theology between “Anglican Communion” and “Anglo-Catholics” ? It seems like there are different sects within Anglicanism that disagree with one another. Maybe that is the problem here - differing theologies within your community. :confused:
Well, the Church of England claims to be a “branch” of the One True Church, with valid apostolic Succession and Sacraments. The Catholic Church does not accept that, and neither do I.

Henry VIII: They took issue with that saying “we weren’t founded by him, Jesus founded us. We’ve always been here.”

Anglican Communion and “Anglo-Catholics” are separate issues. The first is the entirety of autonomous Anglican churches in the world, recognising the Archbishop of Canterbury as head. The latter is a tradition within Anglicanism that adheres to the Catholic heritage more than, say, the Evangelical Anglicans. Those are the two ends of the spectrum.
 
They find it insulting because people who are wrong generally don’t like being told as much. You worded it quite well, and quite “ecumenically” I applaud you for your tact, I probably wouldn’t have had as much 😛
 
I had to word it that way, since it wouldn’t have got approved otherwise… But I like ambiguity 🙂
 
Henry VIII: They took issue with that saying “we weren’t founded by him, Jesus founded us. We’ve always been here.”

Well, my two cents worth: Anglicanism was founded by Henry VIII in order to legitimize his sins, and at that moment, he cut his church off from apostolic succession, besides stealing Catholic Church property and killing Catholics. Sorry for the semi-rant. I suspect a lot of Anglicans don’t want to be reminded of their past. This might be their version of “Catholic Guilt”: Anglican Guilt!
 
I didn’t know where to post it, so I deemed it best suited to this forum, as some discussion could arise.

As mentioned in earlier posts, I work at an Anglican parish but am planning to convert to Catholicism once I am free to do so. As part of my work, I recently designed some brochure that explains what Anglicanism and the CofE are, so we could hand it out to people who didn’t know. We get that question quite often, in fact. The brochure comprised a section on basic data (founding and structure), history, beliefs and our parish. Obviously, I found myself in the situation of having to bring these things together: Historical accuracy and truth, as well as proper wording, but also not endorsing something that I would disagree with in light of Catholic teaching. I was quite happy with the result, as was our priest, so it went into printing.

In the brochure, I listed a few excerpts from the Ten and Thrity-nine Articles, also detailing doctrinal change within Anglicanism over time. (Purgatory, Saints, etc.)

Then, not too long after, it was brought to my attention that the document had sparked controversy and quite heated criticism from both parishioners as well as senior clergy visiting. Though I only know of one confirmed passage that they took issue with, there may have been others, all of which I shall quote briefly below.

Confirmed:

Possible others:


As it was really only a very brief summary of what Anglicanism is and most of the brochure was made up of information on our parish, there wouldn’t be much room for points to disagree with. The whole thing was meant to fit onto a double-sided A4 page.

Now for the comments these things sparked, leaving the people involved anonymous:

“These are wrong! Like WRONG!” (from someone who had signed off on it!)
“False”
“Potentially misleading”
“Probably problematic in ecumenical relations”

Do you see anything wrong or badly worded in them? What are your thoughts on the reactions and the points delivered above?

I’d be interested to hear what you have to say. 🙂
I see nothing in those excerpts that is not accurate or arguably so. The point about Henry founding the Church is often argued. I would have said that Hank separated the Church in England from the RCC, or words to that effect.

And, as you know, and as I often state, Anglicans views on stuff like this and other stuff can be variable. Wonder what would have been the reaction if you had listed the Six Articles.

Motley, them Anglicans, says I.

GKC

Anglicanus-Catholicus
 
PARSING (name removed by moderator)UT…

PLEASE WAIT FOR RESPONSE…

REPLY FOLLOWS:

“Anglicans are predicted to be of the species known as Motley”

THANK YOU FOR USING THE GKCSIMULATOR ™.
 
It is my hopes that the Anglicans come into communion with Rome one day. They are to us Catholics as Dutch is to German - similar, but different.
 
PARSING (name removed by moderator)UT…

PLEASE WAIT FOR RESPONSE…

REPLY FOLLOWS:

“Anglicans are predicted to be of the species known as Motley”

THANK YOU FOR USING THE GKCSIMULATOR ™.
Word gets around.

GKC
 
Sorry, but if you think the Roman Catholic Church’s claims about itself are true you should turn yourself in to the nearest RC parish, arrange a confession, and beg Father to receive you IMMEDIATELY. Your very salvation could be at stake!

Stop extracting money from the Church of England. It is selfish and wicked to do that if you have already decided to withdraw yourself from it.
 
Amongst Anglicans, the same.

GKC
I saw an Anglican service online and basically the only thing different was the use of “Holy Ghost” vs. “Holy Spirit” in the RCC and the color of vestments. That’s literally it.
 
I saw an Anglican service online and basically the only thing different was the use of “Holy Ghost” vs. “Holy Spirit” in the RCC and the color of vestments. That’s literally it.
I mean that Anglicans, considered amongst themselves, are similar but different. Motley comes to mind.

GKC
 
Sorry, but if you think the Roman Catholic Church’s claims about itself are true you should turn yourself in to the nearest RC parish, arrange a confession, and beg Father to receive you IMMEDIATELY. Your very salvation could be at stake!

Stop extracting money from the Church of England. It is selfish and wicked to do that if you have already decided to withdraw yourself from it.
he’s got a point.
 
Sorry, but if you think the Roman Catholic Church’s claims about itself are true you should turn yourself in to the nearest RC parish, arrange a confession, and beg Father to receive you IMMEDIATELY. Your very salvation could be at stake!

Stop extracting money from the Church of England. It is selfish and wicked to do that if you have already decided to withdraw yourself from it.
Well he is already planning to convert, I don’t know what else you can expect from him.

I don’t think any of this really has to do with the point of this thread. After all, he did seem to represent Anglicanism in the brochure accurately, as confirmed by his superiors who signed off on it.
 
Well he is already planning to convert, I don’t know what else you can expect from him.

I don’t think any of this really has to do with the point of this thread. After all, he did seem to represent Anglicanism in the brochure accurately, as confirmed by his superiors who signed off on it.
I can see why an Anglican would be annoyed. apparent conflict of interest. the OP’s heart is somewhere else and it may well be a requirement for the job that he be a practicing Anglican adhering to the Articles. I wonder what his own rector or vicar would say about it. Roles reversed, I wonder what a Catholic pastor would want. its a fairly common business practice to immediately remove someone discovered to be planning to move on.

F/
 
If he has already changed his mind, and continues on as an Anglican, he is perpetuating a fraud. If he is really Roman Catholic in his heart now, then he is basically saying that the Church of England’s claim to be part of the ‘one, holy, catholic and apostolic church’ is a lie, which means he should stop engaging with it forthwith.

OP, are you still taking communion in your C of E parish? If so, why? The Roman Catholic Church teaches that Church of England priests are not priests at all but laymen in vestments and that their “sacraments” are not valid. So you, by continuing to take communion in an Anglican church, are not only violating your own conscience (presumably) but leading others astray by publicly participating in something which you now believe (as a Roman Catholic at heart) to be a fraud.

Perhaps you have committed some “mortal sins” in your life. You do realize that as Anglican “priests” are not real priests you cannot receive absolution from them right? So if you get hit by a bus tomorrow you could be in danger of hell-fires? Do you not see that your reason for staying in the Church of England (presumably, money) is both condemnatory to you and something that has the capacity to lead others astray as well?
 
If he has already changed his mind, and continues on as an Anglican, he is perpetuating a fraud. If he is really Roman Catholic in his heart now, then he is basically saying that the Church of England’s claim to be part of the ‘one, holy, catholic and apostolic church’ is a lie, which means he should stop engaging with it forthwith.

OP, are you still taking communion in your C of E parish? If so, why? The Roman Catholic Church teaches that Church of England priests are not priests at all but laymen in vestments and that their “sacraments” are not valid. So you, by continuing to take communion in an Anglican church, are not only violating your own conscience (presumably) but leading others astray by publicly participating in something which you now believe (as a Roman Catholic at heart) to be a fraud.

Perhaps you have committed some “mortal sins” in your life. You do realize that as Anglican “priests” are not real priests you cannot receive absolution from them right? So if you get hit by a bus tomorrow you could be in danger of hell-fires? Do you not see that your reason for staying in the Church of England (presumably, money) is both condemnatory to you and something that has the capacity to lead others astray as well?
Could it not be possible that perhaps, the OP needs a period of transition to find a new job, before he stops working for the Church of England?

What of the Anglican faith has he been compromising in his current capacity? Has he been distributing Communion? Has been attempting to subvert any particular outreaches or missions of his parish?

It seems additionally that he strove to provide an accurate portrayal of the Church with the assignment we are currently discussing.

His parish absolutely has the right to terminate employment at any time given his desire to convert to Catholicism, but maybe they’ve allowed him to stayed employed until he has found a new one? Or perhaps he signed a contract and therefore cannot terminate his employment until it expires?

It could also be that none of what I said is true. But in Christian charity, shouldn’t we at least offer him the benefit of the doubt?
 
Could it not be possible that perhaps, the OP needs a period of transition to find a new job, before he stops working for the Church of England?

What of the Anglican faith has he been compromising in his current capacity? Has he been distributing Communion? Has been attempting to subvert any particular outreaches or missions of his parish?

It seems additionally that he strove to provide an accurate portrayal of the Church with the assignment we are currently discussing.

His parish absolutely has the right to terminate employment at any time given his desire to convert to Catholicism, but maybe they’ve allowed him to stayed employed until he has found a new one? Or perhaps he signed a contract and therefore cannot terminate his employment until it expires?

It could also be that none of what I said is true. But in Christian charity, shouldn’t we at least offer him the benefit of the doubt?
I’m trying to see this from the point of view of his church and employer; its not an unusual assumption that the CoE wants faithful CoE members in its employ or would be willing if not inclined to release him from contractual duties. as I’ve pointed out, this is common in secular matters, and at some levels, expected. on the other hand it is entirely possible that the CoE is graciously accommodating his needs as well.

an Anglican brought up the general issue, the matter hits close to home. I see the merits in his general concern.

F/
 
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