Anglicans and Catholics

[Peter_J]

Before I would answer that I would say that your demeanor seems a bit of the selling-out nature to your own faith.

It’s important to keep in mind that “Continuing Anglicans” like GKC often have little connection to, or similarity to, “Anglicans in communion with Cantebury”.

 

[TAB39]

It’s important to keep in mind that “Continuing Anglicans” like GKC often have little connection to, or similarity to, “Anglicans in communion with Cantebury”.

I gathered that, but thanks just the same. The Anglican parish that I have been attending quite often also shares little if any association with Williams and the like.

 

[GKC]

It’s important to keep in mind that “Continuing Anglicans” like GKC often have little connection to, or similarity to, “Anglicans in communion with Cantebury”.

Anglicans are an extremely motley crew.

GKC

 

[TAB39]

Yep. Lots of African Anglicans. High quality jurisdictions, there, mostly.

Is the RCC backwards, remiiss, or inadequate, in all these regards, such that a lesson should be learned from the Anglicans, then?

GKC

I would in all truthfulness have to say yes to that question. It has been a long long time since this kind of fervor for the Gospel abroad came from the Catholic church. Not to say though that there are some positive strides made by Catholics but not in the same realm as what Anglicans are doing.

 

[GKC]

I would in all truthfulness have to say yes to that question. It has been a long long time since this kind of fervor for the Gospel abroad came from the Catholic church. Not to say though that there are some positive strides made by Catholics but not in the same realm as what Anglicans are doing.

I accept your judgment, as to the actions of the RCC, not knowing much about such. I note that the flavor of those African Anglican jurisdictions differs from that of, say the Episcopal Church, in many regards.

GKC

 

[TAB39]

I accept your judgment, as to the actions of the RCC, not knowing much about such. I note that the flavor of those African Anglican jurisdictions differs from that of, say the Episcopal Church, in many regards.

GKC

I know what you are saying. Not just being much more conservative in their views of Scripture and surrounding issues but also they seem to be a lower-type church in their worship styles compared to the Episcopal churches that I have seen and attended. I’ve seen very high-church Episcopal churches that seemed more Catholic than most Catholic churches if that makes sense.

 

[GKC]

I know what you are saying. Not just being much more conservative in their views of Scripture and surrounding issues but also they seem to be a lower-type church in their worship styles compared to the Episcopal churches that I have seen and attended. I’ve seen very high-church Episcopal churches that seemed more Catholic than most Catholic churches if that makes sense.

It makes sense to me. You should visit my parish some time. Sung Angelus after every Mass.

GKC

Anglicanus Catholicus

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Well you could learn some facts for a start.

One gay bishop ordained in a backwater of Anglicanism by people who want to feel important and then we’re told we’re all for ordaining practicing homosexuals.

As for women priests, in Christ there is neither male or female and don’t give me that “All christs diciples were men” nonsense because all Christs diciples were Jews as well. Do you believe in the ordination of gentiles? Of course you do.

This weak argument rears its ugly head right and left with folks in the women’s ordination camp. Any biblical scholar worth his or her weight knows that is taken out of context. The quote you cite comes from Paul discussing SALVATION, not ordination! Paul is discussing how salvation is no longer exclusive to Jews. It is not just for men either, but for women. It is not just for some gentiles, but all. Salvation…salvation…not ordination. Why is this concept so hard to grasp? And as for the anticipatory counter-argument regarding “all of Christ’s disciples were men,” actually that is a great place to start. And the Gentiles part is equally weak.

Notice something, friend…Christ revealed the legitimacy of bringing gentiles to the fold to Peter and Paul. We see men, gentile and jew, ordained in the NT, not by Jesus but by the disciples. Most of the great early minds of the Church were gentiles…MALE gentiles…

You are making the classic, hole-ridden argument of omission. “If Christ didn’t say we can’t do it specifically in a Gospel, then we can do it!” Jesus didn’t say we can’t ordain an orangatan but thanks to the scriptures, tradition, the Church, and common sense, I’m pretty sure that isn’t exactly kosher.

Forensically-speaking, if Christ had wanted women priestesses, He most certainly would have permitted it. Jesus bucked the system right and left and wasn’t afraid of controversy. He was a walking controversy for his time. He forgave sins in God’s name, ate with tax collectors, forgave and walked with prostitutes, was kind to Romans, overthrew the tables of the merchants at the temple, and ripped the Pharisees up one side and down the other and yet…HMMMMM He didn’t ordain women. Surely Mary the Mother of God and Mary Magdalene would’ve been most deserving, no? And yet…no women priests.

And most things we see in the NT are foreshadowed in the OT…like Melchisedek’s bread and wine, the Passover and the Eucharist, the Ark and Mary, twelve tribes, twelve apostles, and…AN ALL-MALE ISRAELITE PRIESTHOOD…hmmmm

There is absolutely NOT A SHREAD of evidence or argument for women’s ordination. It is completely a moot, silly debate.

All are equal in Christ salvifically, but not all are called to the same vocation. Motherhood is a sublime vocation that we men can never be a part of. The bond between a mother and son is so deep, something a man can never know. And yet I am not jealous of my wife. I am happy for her. She’s blessed. Men are blessed with fatherhood. And that is precisely what the priesthood is…in persona cristi, a fatherhood in Christ for the parishoner. A mother can’t be a father.

Curiously your argument that women should be priests was actually a reality in the early church…the GNOSTIC Church…

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Anglicans are a motley crew, for sure.

GKC

Anglicanus Catholicus

As opposed to Motley CRUE the band…LOL “Smokin’ in the Boys’ Room” and “Home Sweet Home” etc. lol

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

How to better center our lives on Christ in both Word and action. Also to better serve people globally. What Anglicans are doing in Africa amidst the horrific violence is astounding and unprecidented. Africans are being baptized by the hundreds and thousands by churches in Uganda and Kenya. There are more Anglicans in church in Uganda or Kenya alone on a given Sunday than in the U.S. and U.K. combined.

I know of Anglican priests living in ALL-MUSLIM villages undercover preaching the Good News. There are some VERY brave Anglicans in some real scary parts of Africa! God bless them!

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

They have us beaten badly in music. The Anglican church near my home has wonderful uplifting music and they have a praise band who is superb. They have a 14 year old girl who plays the electric violin like an angel and the whole parish is really spirit filled. I’m sorry to say but the music in my home church is horrid. If it is supposed to portrait joy, it has missed the mark entirely. I don’t know what else to say, it stinks.

Funny how parishes differ. I’m not crazy about our music either. But the Anglican church I went to sang stuff from the 1700’s and 1800’s full of thees and thines and hithers to the point it got a little annoying…

But one thing I’ll give Anglicans…they sing their butts off! Those people are music-lovers and praise God loudly, God bless 'em.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Before I would answer that I would say that your demeanor seems a bit of the selling-out nature to your own faith.

What a cheap-shot. Calling a spade a spade and honestly analyzing one’s denomination isn’t selling out. GKC is awesome about pointing out the joys and tribulations of Anglicanism and at the same time agreeing with us Catholics here and there. He also doesn’t agree on several RC tenets. He’s very much a straight-shooter, hardly a sell-out. We RC’s sometimes admit we have weaknesses and yet we’re hardly traitors…

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

We could learn much from the Anglican Communion, trust me.

Yes, we could indeed. It reminds me of an “I Love Lucy” episode where Lucy decides to become a writer. She works on a novel throughout the episode and tries to get it published. Finally she gets a notice that her novel has been accepted by a big textbook publishing company. The company meets with her and tells her, “we’re going to use a piece of your novel in a new textbook we’re putting together for college about how to be a great writer.” Lucy, thrilled, replies, “really!?” And the publisher says, "yes, it will figure prominently in the chapter called, “Don’t let this happen to you! What **not to do **as a writer!”

Aside from great fellowship and a fabulous Book of Common Prayer liturgy as well as some good pastoral priests that I can attest to, we can also learn gay “marriage,” abortion, divorce, carbon footprints, neo-paganism, tolerance of Sharia Law, in vitro, cohabitation, and women’s ordination. I think this is a clear cost-benefit analysis that doesn’t pay to join…

I’ll be the first to say that in my parish we have some really weak, lacking pastoral priests. It’s rough. Downright annoying sometimes. Our music can be shaky unless the wife of our music director sings. Her Ave Maria will absolutely penetrate you and bring you to tears. The fellowship and catechetics could be better. But in the end it is the teaching, dogma, truth, tradition, and Godly protection Christ affords His Church via the papacy and magisterium. The deposit of faith is too rich, too safeguarded by Grace, too rich to flee for such trifles. In this day and age of moral relativism and looking for a Church that will fit US, we need to find where we fit for Christ. I’ve definitely had my moments of frustration with Catholicism, too many I’m afraid, but it is where the truth dwells…despite its scars and pimples from some bad folks throughout its history, its richness outshines them all…

 

[jay29]

I know what you are saying. Not just being much more conservative in their views of Scripture and surrounding issues but also they seem to be a lower-type church in their worship styles compared to the Episcopal churches that I have seen and attended. ** I’ve seen very high-church Episcopal churches that seemed more Catholic than most Catholic churches if that makes sense.**

It doesn’t make any sense to me. Just because a few people put on a great theatrical show doesn’t mean it is correct. No valid priesthood, no valid Eucharist. What would be the point?

 

[GKC]

It doesn’t make any sense to me. Just because a few people put on a great theatrical show doesn’t mean it is correct. No valid priesthood, no valid Eucharist. What would be the point?

Depends on who you ask. Apostolicae Curae is binding on RCs, not Anglicans.

GKC

 

[GKC]

What a cheap-shot. Calling a spade a spade and honestly analyzing one’s denomination isn’t selling out. GKC is awesome about pointing out the joys and tribulations of Anglicanism and at the same time agreeing with us Catholics here and there. He also doesn’t agree on several RC tenets. He’s very much a straight-shooter, hardly a sell-out. We RC’s sometimes admit we have weaknesses and yet we’re hardly traitors…

You are very kind.

The tribulations take the most time.

GKC

 

[jay29]

Depends on who you ask. Apostolicae Curae is binding on RCs, not Anglicans.

GKC

Of course. Those (denoms) that separated themselves from the CC can do whatever they want. After all, they do what they want anyway.

 

[Kakieanne]

You are very kind.

The tribulations take the most time.

GKC

Hi GKC,

I can relate. I’m also an Anglican (from Canada). I love my Parish and we have a wonderful priest but the Anglican Church of Canada is still in turmoil over homosexual marriage. So far, it isn’t allowed…but it’s probably just a matter of time. Which wouldn’t be a problem if our last Prime Minister hadn’t forced the law through Parliament. He was and still is a member in good standing of the Roman Catholic Church.

 

[GKC]

Of course. Those (denoms) that separated themselves from the CC can do whatever they want. After all, they do what they want anyway.

Lord only knows.

GKC

 

[GKC]

Hi GKC,

I can relate. I’m also an Anglican (from Canada). I love my Parish and we have a wonderful priest but the Anglican Church of Canada is still in turmoil over homosexual marriage. So far, it isn’t allowed…but it’s probably just a matter of time. Which wouldn’t be a problem if our last Prime Minister hadn’t forced the law through Parliament. He was and still is a member in good standing of the Roman Catholic Church.

Tribulations everywhere.

GKC