Angry about NFP

[jonnlaureng]

I find that I am angry with God, angry with the role that the Catholic Church has assigned to women. I hate that I am forbade from using birth control and am supposed to accept a possible pregnancy every time I have sex with my husband. I hate it, but I follow the Church’s teachings. Yet, it is ruining my marriage. I got pregnant at 19 with my son and had to leave my dream college to marry my husband and start my family. Despite using NFP, I became pregnant again 7 months later and had our daughter. I do not WANT any other children right now. I am so completely adamant against having another child that I refuse to have sex with my husband. It has been over a year now since we last had sex. It also doesn’t help that he is military and deploys quite often.

I have read other posts about NFP and I must admit to getting angry when women in my situation are called irrational about their fear of getting pregnant. I also get angry when they are told to go talk to a priest. I don’t want to talk to a priest. It’s easy for a man to say, “No, we can’t use condoms because it’s against the Church” because HE is not the one who has to worry about getting pregnant. HIS few minutes of pleasure lead to a woman being pregnant for 10 months, going through labor and delivery (which could kill her, mind you), raising a newborn (and the other children), trying to get her body back, etc. Men will never understand, and I find that men are the ones constantly telling me no. I’m sorry, but sex is not worth it to me. I cannot stress how much I absolutely do NOT want another child right now. To me, abstinence is the only sure way I will not get pregnant. I don’t care if NFP is 99% effective, because I was that damn 1%.

Call me selfish, but I do not accept that women are supposed to just blindly accept a possibly pregnancy every time her husband wants to have sex. It is completely unfair. I want to go back to school and finish my degree, I want to focus on my career. I do not want to stay home and care for six children.

I need some guidance from women who are in my situation. Women who want to follow their faith, but also do not want to be barefoot and pregnant their entire lives. How do you handle this? How can I get rid of this anger? How can I save my marriage?

 

[The_Bucket]

As I’ve written before… someday this subforum will see a time where 2/3 of the posts aren’t about sex and particularly about NFP. Someday…

No offense to the OP because I’m a guy in a traditional Catholic marriage, NFP and all, so I get the frustration, but you’re really not being logical here. You don’t care that NFP is 99% effective because of that 1%. What would you say then about the pill which is also only 99% effective (with perfect use) or condoms that are far less than 99% effective even with perfect use and more like 75-80% with “typical use.”

What would you say if you were allowed by your religion to use artificial means and you ended up pregnant anyway? Say the condom broke or something. You going to then shift your anger onto your husband for “screwing everything up”?

I’d say you need to deal with the selfishness aspect here more than anything because there’s a lot Is in that post. Remember, the Church doesn’t own your body but neither do you. You’re borrowing it from God who has stamped a time limit on it. Your soul, on the other hand, is yours forever.

Oh and since when do men get to avoid the “consequences” of sex within a marriage? No one’s skipping out of town here. Pretty sure I’m called to both go to work to provide food for my family and then come home to be a good father to my children and help out around the house every day. The work of a parent never ends and that applies to both parents.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

Oh and since when do men get to avoid the “consequences” of sex within a marriage? No one’s skipping out of town here. Pretty sure I’m called to both go to work to provide food for my family and then come home to be a good father to my children and help out around the house every day. The work of a parent never ends and that applies to both parents.

I’m going to agree with the OP and say that they deal with far fewer consequences than women do. They have to go to work to put food on the table? Well they had to do that before the kid too. The woman is the one who harms her body and her health. She’s the one who has to take time off work, and sometimes leave her career behind all together. Traditionally, because the man has to be up for work the next day she’s the one to get up in the middle of the night. She deals with the PPD. The list goes on.

I don’t think its selfish to not want to go through all of that yet again, especially when you have other things you want to do in life. If NFP is something that you’re committed to then you and your husband should at the very least get counseling to help you deal with the long periods of abstinence and you should be very, very sure that you’re not fertile when you do have sex.

 

[The_Bucket]

Sorry but I had to get up in the middle of the night constantly as well. Sure, with our daughter my wife was doing the breastfeeding but with our premature son, that was not an option so I was taking care of that just as much. Plus I had to make the terrible emotional sacrifice to live away from my family 4 days a week while my son was in the hospital in life-or-death situations in order to make enough money to support them.

So yeah I mean we men do indeed sacrifice as well. In many situations we’re the ones up a night wondering how the hell we’re going to provide for an expanding family and that knot in our stomach knowing that our children and wives rely on US for their temporal needs.

I get that children have a much bigger physical impact on women and I’m not saying that the OP can’t decide that a conservative approach to NFP is what is best for her family. It certainly can be, especially if getting that degree can make the situation more financially stable for the existing and future kids. I can’t make that decision and I wouldn’t pass judgment no matter what the decision is. I’m saying that the anger is misdirected and nonsensical when it comes to the relative effectiveness considering every form of ABC has it’s 1% (with perfect use) or worse.

Plus then you ingrain a very selfish view of sex and like I said, what would happen if a condom broke or a pill was forgotten? Then the anger just doubles or triples as even trying the “bulletproof” methods that are contrary to God’s teaching fails and that anger fired at the other spouse. That’s not good for the family.

 

[sky_heart]

Hi Jonnlaureng!
I don’t believe you should be angry with God or with the Church, per se… but be honest in your heart and in your relationship with God and pray to him. Let him know how you feel inside- your frustrations, your struggles, everything- as i’m sure you already do. I and my husband are new to the Church, but strongly feel that in some ways, God wants us to retain our relationships with our children and spouses, make them strong and enduring. I don’t believe in my heart, that God would want you to sacrifice these crucial aspects of your life for using contraception. I’m sure some posters on here will widely and harshly criticize my point of view, but I truly believe when it comes down to it, do what your soul can handle.

My husband and I struggle with NFP…we are also military and find that at this point, particularly financially (we, even living a very simple life, would not be able to afford another child at this point) condoms are really the only right way for us- at this time in our situation. We plan to continue to use them and, as soon as we find ourselves entirely ready, financially and otherwise, we look to abandon them and then attempt NFP as we already have two children and believe with all of our hearts that God would not want us to knowingly conceive and not be able to wholly provide for them. I would not want to have another child knowing that I could not give to it what we already currently give to our children- emotionally, mentally and physically.

My advice, bottom-line?
Do not be angry at God or the Church, accept and revere church teachings but, do what is right for your situation, particularly if you have extenuating circumstances (such as our financial limitations) that must be considered. I think it is paramount for you to have the best relationship possible with your husband and with your children considered and, ironically, to some degree, it is against the church teaching to not be intimate with your husband as this is apart of the marriage covenant and, take it from another military wife, physical and emotional intimacy is paramount to keep our relationships intact and to ensure that neither partner strays as deployment=limitless temptation and its easily like playing with fire. Remember, do what your soul can handle. If you feel that you would have no problem atoning for your contraceptive use as its obvious to me you have an extenuating circumstance (a number of children, deployments where you have to take care of kids alone etc.,) then do what you need to do. I am sure God already knows how you are feeling in your heart… <3

Just my 2 cents but if you’re looking for someone to talk to about it more in-depth, feel free to message me! I’m here for you

 

[Rence]

I find that I am angry with God, angry with the role that the Catholic Church has assigned to women. I hate that I am forbade from using birth control and am supposed to accept a possible pregnancy every time I have sex with my husband. I hate it, but I follow the Church’s teachings. Yet, it is ruining my marriage. I got pregnant at 19 with my son and had to leave my dream college to marry my husband and start my family. Despite using NFP, I became pregnant again 7 months later and had our daughter. I do not WANT any other children right now. I am so completely adamant against having another child that I refuse to have sex with my husband. It has been over a year now since we last had sex. It also doesn’t help that he is military and deploys quite often.

I have read other posts about NFP and I must admit to getting angry when women in my situation are called irrational about their fear of getting pregnant. I also get angry when they are told to go talk to a priest. I don’t want to talk to a priest. It’s easy for a man to say, “No, we can’t use condoms because it’s against the Church” because HE is not the one who has to worry about getting pregnant. HIS few minutes of pleasure lead to a woman being pregnant for 10 months, going through labor and delivery (which could kill her, mind you), raising a newborn (and the other children), trying to get her body back, etc. Men will never understand, and I find that men are the ones constantly telling me no. I’m sorry, but sex is not worth it to me. I cannot stress how much I absolutely do NOT want another child right now. To me, abstinence is the only sure way I will not get pregnant. I don’t care if NFP is 99% effective, because I was that damn 1%.

Call me selfish, but I do not accept that women are supposed to just blindly accept a possibly pregnancy every time her husband wants to have sex. It is completely unfair. I want to go back to school and finish my degree, I want to focus on my career. I do not want to stay home and care for six children.

I need some guidance from women who are in my situation. Women who want to follow their faith, but also do not want to be barefoot and pregnant their entire lives. How do you handle this? How can I get rid of this anger? How can I save my marriage?

I totally understand you wanting to go back to school and finish your degree, and I think you should do exactly that if you can. I don’t think you’re being selfish at all by wanting to complete your education and focusing on your career. Many women are successful in their career as well as at home. There is no reason why you can’t do the same if you put your mind too it and hone in your organizational and time management skills. I wouldn’t want to say home and care for six children either, and wouldn’t want to give up my career either — though there are many who are perfectly happy doing just that. Everyone is different. You just have to decide whether you want to accomplish your goals while being in communion with the Church (by not using birth control) or while not being in communion with the Church (by using birth control). Regardless of whether you use birth control or NFP, sex always has the possibility of leading to pregnancy.

I would certainly be researching NFP more and try to hook up with a live instructor though.

 

[sky_heart]

As I’ve written before… someday this subforum will see a time where 2/3 of the posts aren’t about sex and particularly about NFP. Someday…

No offense to the OP because I’m a guy in a traditional Catholic marriage, NFP and all, so I get the frustration, but you’re really not being logical here. You don’t care that NFP is 99% effective because of that 1%. What would you say then about the pill which is also only 99% effective (with perfect use) or condoms that are far less than 99% effective even with perfect use and more like 75-80% with “typical use.”

What would you say if you were allowed by your religion to use artificial means and you ended up pregnant anyway? Say the condom broke or something. You going to then shift your anger onto your husband for “screwing everything up”?

I’d say you need to deal with the selfishness aspect here more than anything because there’s a lot Is in that post. Remember, the Church doesn’t own your body but neither do you. You’re borrowing it from God who has stamped a time limit on it. Your soul, on the other hand, is yours forever.

Oh and since when do men get to avoid the “consequences” of sex within a marriage? No one’s skipping out of town here. Pretty sure I’m called to both go to work to provide food for my family and then come home to be a good father to my children and help out around the house every day. The work of a parent never ends and that applies to both parents.

Friend, I think she is mentioning that she is tired of BEING the 1% as she has tried NFP and it has been unsuccessful for her in the past. I don’t believe she is being selfish at all. Speaking personally from my own situation, imagine using NFP and getting pregnant, back to back to back, it’s not good from a physical health or mental and emotional health standpoint for mother OR child. In fact, as you are a man (albeit in a traditional marriage), I think it is highly judgmental the way you’ve chosen to answer the question, particularly because she was directing this at women and i’m sure looking for legitimate answers and guidance, not criticisms. Men don’t get to skip out on responsibility, correct, but men don’t simply endure the physical, mental or emotional drain that we females experience, from a first hand point of view (obviously) and only watch from the sidelines.

I think expressly because the work of a parent never ends- because she would have to provide for her children, by herself during lengthy deployments (which the average civilian couldn’t began to fathom) as well as all of the other financial considerations and otherwise, I believe she should do what is best for her at this time, knowing that if and when the time comes where she can do differently, that she truly will.

 

[The_Bucket]

Friend, I think she is mentioning that she is tired of BEING the 1% as she has tried NFP and it has been unsuccessful for her in the past. I don’t believe she is being selfish at all. Speaking personally from my own situation, imagine using NFP and getting pregnant, back to back to back, it’s not good from a physical health or mental and emotional health standpoint for mother OR child. In fact, as you are a man (albeit in a traditional marriage), I think it is highly judgmental the way you’ve chosen to answer the question, particularly because she was directing this at women and i’m sure looking for legitimate answers and guidance, not criticisms. Men don’t get to skip out on responsibility, correct, but men don’t simply endure the physical, mental or emotional drain that we females experience, from a first hand point of view (obviously) and only watch from the sidelines.

I think expressly because the work of a parent never ends- because she would have to provide for her children, by herself during lengthy deployments (which the average civilian couldn’t began to fathom) as well as all of the other financial considerations and otherwise, I believe she should do what is best for her at this time, knowing that if and when the time comes where she can do differently, that she truly will.

Oh yes by all means if it’s what you truly think is best for you, then go ahead and disobey God’s law. I think it would be best for my mental health if everyone that annoys me on the road and causes me to curse and swear was gone… so I’m gonna strap a guided missile launcher to the top of my car to clear out that issue. After all, it’s what is best for me.

I don’t know about the difficulties of deployment, but I do know the tribulations of living away from my family for 4 days a week for months while my son was touch-and-go in the hospital all that time due to extreme prematurity. Oh yeah, and then tack on finding out about our daughter right after my son got out of the hospital and just 5 months after both my wife and son nearly died courtesy of a placental abruption. Yeah, I don’t know where I’m coming from here at all.

Look, life happens. It’s stressful for everyone. The only good answer is to rely on God more and yourself less. It’s a lesson I refuse to follow most of the time but I find that I’m really only at peace when I do. Why I am so stubborn I don’t know…

My guidance while snarky is plenty legitimate and furthermore it upholds the teachings of the Church. I’m saying the anger is misdirected, I’m noting that artificial birth control is not only immoral it’s an illusion in terms of being perfect at preventing pregnancy. I would never make a judgment as to why someone would determine that they need to use conservative (read: 99% effective with perfect use) practice of NFP. It’s not my business and I cannot know the situation that prompts that plenty moral and licit decision. A decision to use artificial means of avoiding pregnancy is never morally licit. Period. There’s no gray area here.

I also find one particular piece of advice hilarious. “Revere the Church’s teachings” … but then do whatever the hell you want. If you want to live that way, go pick another religion. Why be Catholic if you don’t want to follow the Church’s teachings?

We all fall. We all make mistakes. We all do morally wrong things and sometimes terribly wrong things. I’m no different. I have plenty of skeletons in my own closet and I acknowledge them. But publicly advocating someone to commit mortal sin? That’s just pure nonsense.

 

[_Abyssinia]

I find that I am angry with God, angry with the role that the Catholic Church has assigned to women. I hate that I am forbade from using birth control and am supposed to accept a possible pregnancy every time I have sex with my husband. I hate it, but I follow the Church’s teachings. Yet, it is ruining my marriage. I got pregnant at 19 with my son and had to leave my dream college to marry my husband and start my family. Despite using NFP, I became pregnant again 7 months later and had our daughter. I do not WANT any other children right now. I am so completely adamant against having another child that I refuse to have sex with my husband. It has been over a year now since we last had sex. It also doesn’t help that he is military and deploys quite often.

I have read other posts about NFP and I must admit to getting angry when women in my situation are called irrational about their fear of getting pregnant. I also get angry when they are told to go talk to a priest. I don’t want to talk to a priest. It’s easy for a man to say, “No, we can’t use condoms because it’s against the Church” because HE is not the one who has to worry about getting pregnant. HIS few minutes of pleasure lead to a woman being pregnant for 10 months, going through labor and delivery (which could kill her, mind you), raising a newborn (and the other children), trying to get her body back, etc. Men will never understand, and I find that men are the ones constantly telling me no. I’m sorry, but sex is not worth it to me. I cannot stress how much I absolutely do NOT want another child right now. To me, abstinence is the only sure way I will not get pregnant. I don’t care if NFP is 99% effective, because I was that damn 1%.

Call me selfish, but I do not accept that women are supposed to just blindly accept a possibly pregnancy every time her husband wants to have sex. It is completely unfair. I want to go back to school and finish my degree, I want to focus on my career. I do not want to stay home and care for six children.

I need some guidance from women who are in my situation. Women who want to follow their faith, but also do not want to be barefoot and pregnant their entire lives. How do you handle this? How can I get rid of this anger? How can I save my marriage?

Birth control pills and condoms are more statistically unreliable than NFP is.

Condoms have a 15% failure rate.

Birth control pills have an 8% failure rate:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_birth_control_methods

Numerous studies show NFP has 99.5% accuracy, less than 1%.

**NFP is more reliable than contraception. **

Research arm of Planned Parenthood, Guttmacher Institute said 54% of women in abortion clinics had used contraception at the time of achieving pregnancy.

I think you need to get out of the mindset that using contraception is a reliable way of not achieving pregnancy, because that is not true.

Natural Family Planning Resources

Online Resources for NFP

catholicism.about.com/od/catholicliving/tp/NFP_Resources.htm

 

[searching04]

Hi Jonnlaureng!
I don’t believe you should be angry with God or with the Church, per se… but be honest in your heart and in your relationship with God and pray to him. Let him know how you feel inside- your frustrations, your struggles, everything- as i’m sure you already do. I and my husband are new to the Church, but strongly feel that in some ways, God wants us to retain our relationships with our children and spouses, make them strong and enduring. I don’t believe in my heart, that God would want you to sacrifice these crucial aspects of your life for using contraception. I’m sure some posters on here will widely and harshly criticize my point of view, but I truly believe when it comes down to it, do what your soul can handle.

My husband and I struggle with NFP…we are also military and find that at this point, particularly financially (we, even living a very simple life, would not be able to afford another child at this point) condoms are really the only right way for us- at this time in our situation. We plan to continue to use them and, as soon as we find ourselves entirely ready, financially and otherwise, we look to abandon them and then attempt NFP as we already have two children and believe with all of our hearts that God would not want us to knowingly conceive and not be able to wholly provide for them. I would not want to have another child knowing that I could not give to it what we already currently give to our children- emotionally, mentally and physically.

My advice, bottom-line?
Do not be angry at God or the Church, accept and revere church teachings but, do what is right for your situation, particularly if you have extenuating circumstances (such as our financial limitations) that must be considered. I think it is paramount for you to have the best relationship possible with your husband and with your children considered and, ironically, to some degree, it is against the church teaching to not be intimate with your husband as this is apart of the marriage covenant and, take it from another military wife, physical and emotional intimacy is paramount to keep our relationships intact and to ensure that neither partner strays as deployment=limitless temptation and its easily like playing with fire. Remember, do what your soul can handle. If you feel that you would have no problem atoning for your contraceptive use as its obvious to me you have an extenuating circumstance (a number of children, deployments where you have to take care of kids alone etc.,) then do what you need to do. I am sure God already knows how you are feeling in your heart… <3

Just my 2 cents but if you’re looking for someone to talk to about it more in-depth, feel free to message me! I’m here for you

Totally agree with sky-heart and fully understand where jonnlaureng is coming from, and I’m the husband. And military.

Problem is not NFP (usually); it is having to follow church teachings on sex or be told you’re going to burn. No matter the impact on the marriage. And OP, some husbands do very much indeed need sexual intimcy because of the intimacy, not just sex. We need and desire to be close to our wives, not just need a release.

I will share what I was sent by a friend in here somewhere, below. While this talks about not supposedly being able to orgasm outside of intercourse, and intercourse as the ideal, it also talks in detail about the radical extreme and the negative impact on a marriage (among other things). Take a guess where we are as a couple? All because semen isn’t supposed to land somewhere?

szansaspotkania.net/index.php?page=15729

So to jonnlaureng, as sky_heart says, pray and talk with your husband and come up with a plan that will maintain your marriage. It isn’t what the church says, but it is a reality, and you are not alone. It is real and it hurts.

As for condoms failing and NFP failing and the percentages, or for options other than the pill and condoms, there is non-intercourse sex. Oh, yeah, not allowed, but it is also 100% effective at not becoming pregnant.

Oddly, the priest that wrote the article says couples are supposed to be carressing and touching and arousing, though shouldn’t go into it planning on orgasm. So go ahead, but don’t go too far. But if you do, it is not necessarily a sin. An extremely fine mental, emotional line and in trying to walk it, here we are once again with an OP struggling.

 

[sky_heart]

Oh yes by all means if it’s what you truly think is best for you, then go ahead and disobey God’s law. I think it would be best for my mental health if everyone that annoys me on the road and causes me to curse and swear was gone… so I’m gonna strap a guided missile launcher to the top of my car to clear out that issue. After all, it’s what is best for me.

I don’t know about the difficulties of deployment, but I do know the tribulations of living away from my family for 4 days a week for months while my son was touch-and-go in the hospital all that time due to extreme prematurity. Oh yeah, and then tack on finding out about our daughter right after my son got out of the hospital and just 5 months after both my wife and son nearly died courtesy of a placental abruption. Yeah, I don’t know where I’m coming from here at all.

Look, life happens. It’s stressful for everyone. The only good answer is to rely on God more and yourself less. It’s a lesson I refuse to follow most of the time but I find that I’m really only at peace when I do. Why I am so stubborn I don’t know…

My guidance while snarky is plenty legitimate and furthermore it upholds the teachings of the Church. I’m saying the anger is misdirected, I’m noting that artificial birth control is not only immoral it’s an illusion in terms of being perfect at preventing pregnancy. I would never make a judgment as to why someone would determine that they need to use conservative (read: 99% effective with perfect use) practice of NFP. It’s not my business and I cannot know the situation that prompts that plenty moral and licit decision. A decision to use artificial means of avoiding pregnancy is never morally licit. Period. There’s no gray area here.

I also find one particular piece of advice hilarious. “Revere the Church’s teachings” … but then do whatever the hell you want. If you want to live that way, go pick another religion. Why be Catholic if you don’t want to follow the Church’s teachings?

We all fall. We all make mistakes. We all do morally wrong things and sometimes terribly wrong things. I’m no different. I have plenty of skeletons in my own closet and I acknowledge them. But publicly advocating someone to commit mortal sin? That’s just pure nonsense.

Ugh. What the heck are you even talking about?
No you’re right. From what you’re saying you don’t know anything about deployment… living away from family is one thing as i’ve experienced that in my life myself before (and currently), i’ve been pregnant taking care of my kids while my husband has been deployed and it was brutally difficult. I appreciate and understand your struggles, but must say to not have your family fully intact and having to do all the food shopping, paying bills, taking care of kids, taking care of your own health to ensure your baby isn’t premature, having to heal after a c-section/normal birth and still maintain everyone’s quality of life including your own, as well as responsibilities of the home, etc., it’s a LOT. I’m not trivializing or comparing here, but being a military wife, in itself is tough. I’m simply saying to the OP to do what she feels and nobody but GOD has the right to throw the book at her. Not even you. As a poster on a random forum, you don’t have the right to condemn or trivialize her experiences. What she chooses to do “God’s law” as you’ve put it aside, its between her and her personal relationship with God not for your watchful eyes to judge cruelly. Why admittedly be snarky when it ISN’T necessary? This woman wants help, how un-Christ-like of you to deny her genuine help in place of rudeness.

I agree that her anger is misdirected, no one uses condoms to “perfectly prevent” pregnancy. If pregnancy is meant to occur it will, condoms be damned. I don’t know anyone alive who thinks condoms (I am not referring to any other means of contraception) are flawless. Say what you will. I believe she should accept the Church’s way but, as the Church’s way doesn’t prescribe to know or attempt to guess every conceivable situation. In this light, she should do what’s best for her and perhaps with all the “damning” and “throwing the book” you are doing at her and my advice to her, you should practice what you preach as your words are a miserable fail. You won’t use contraception but you will admittedly be snarky, rude, however you call it-- it’s not helpful and you should be ashamed… but i’m sure you aren’t. Just guessing here but God would probably rather you not be a jerk to a common stranger thats asking for help or a common stranger that is merely dispensing asked for advice than not use contraception. What the heck is the point of your avoidance to one if you will not avoid miserably treating others. Just saying. Good day.

 

[sky_heart]

Totally agree with sky-heart and fully understand where jonnlaureng is coming from, and I’m the husband. And military.

Problem is not NFP (usually); it is having to follow church teachings on sex or be told you’re going to burn. No matter the impact on the marriage. And OP, some husbands do very much indeed need sexual intimcy because of the intimacy, not just sex. We need and desire to be close to our wives, not just need a release.

I will share what I was sent by a friend in here somewhere, below. While this talks about not supposedly being able to orgasm outside of intercourse, and intercourse as the ideal, it also talks in detail about the radical extreme and the negative impact on a marriage (among other things). Take a guess where we are as a couple? All because semen isn’t supposed to land somewhere?

szansaspotkania.net/index.php?page=15729

So to jonnlaureng, as sky_heart says, pray and talk with your husband and come up with a plan that will maintain your marriage. It isn’t what the church says, but it is a reality, and you are not alone. It is real and it hurts.

As for condoms failing and NFP failing and the percentages, or for options other than the pill and condoms, there is non-intercourse sex. Oh, yeah, not allowed, but it is also 100% effective at not becoming pregnant.

Oddly, the priest that wrote the article says couples are supposed to be carressing and touching and arousing, though shouldn’t go into it planning on orgasm. So go ahead, but don’t go too far. But if you do, it is not necessarily a sin. An extremely fine mental, emotional line and in trying to walk it, here we are once again with an OP struggling.

Searching04-
You are truly remarkable. Thank you for your insight into this situation. Loving that you are military Your post is inspirational- to say the least. I wish it were as simple as percentages and numbers, and so on. I agree 10000% that she needs to morally and mentally pray and think things through…you walked the fine line very nicely and i’m envious as I couldn’t say things as well as you but you’ve basically said everything I meant to say to a T. Thank you so much.

 

[etmom]

You were using Nfp before marriage and got pregnant? Have you had an instructor review your unintended pregnancy charts? It can be quite helpful to get objective feedback

They can also recommend a more conservative use of Nfp (post ovulatory days only) that is extremely effective for those with the most serious reasons to postpone a pregnancy. It involves more abstainance, but wouldn’t require the 100% you are doing now. We have lifethreatening reasons to avoid after our 6th child and use very conservative Nfp. It gives us about 6 or 7 days per month - much better than no days. I am extremely fertile and have been that 1% myself, so i know how hard it is to trust again after that. But very conservative Nfp works.

Nfp is a real sacrifice and can be difficult when needed for serious reasons. Pray, communication with your spouse, and staying close to the sacraments have been key for us.

 

[Corki]

Yet, it is ruining my marriage. I got pregnant at 19 with my son and had to leave my dream college to marry my husband and start my family. Despite using NFP, I became pregnant again 7 months later and had our daughter. I do not WANT any other children right now.

I think you are throwing blame in the wrong place. Sorry to be blunt, but you aren’t in this position because of NFP or because of the Church or because of God. You are in this position because you had sex in college. Your “dream college” wasn’t important enough to you to focus on your studies instead of fooling around. But now you regret having to leave and want to turn back the clock.

It seems you regret your past. That’s admirable. I hope you have also reconciled with the Church - doubly admirable. But bad choices come with consequences and sometimes those consequences have to be dealt with for a long, long time.

Instead of blaming everyone else, you need to put on your big girl pants, take responsibility for your actions and adjust your plans based on the new reality **that you created for yourself **instead of living in the land of “what could have been.”

I know this sounds harsh and I am sorry. I know many people who have made mistakes and have to live with the consequences, myself included. Some do better with the situations they have created than others.

 

[searching04]

Searching04-
You are truly remarkable. Thank you for your insight into this situation. Loving that you are military Your post is inspirational- to say the least. I wish it were as simple as percentages and numbers, and so on. I agree 10000% that she needs to morally and mentally pray and think things through…you walked the fine line very nicely and i’m envious as I couldn’t say things as well as you but you’ve basically said everything I meant to say to a T. Thank you so much.

I thank you as well. But, ah, the turmoil: we follow church teachings on sex (we have four kids vis NFP; it works), and my wife and I disagree about following church teachings, and it has impacted our marriage. While I totally agree with you, and my wife and I had non-intercourse sex in between NFP phases (hated condoms and the pill) for many years, that changed. Read about the “radical extreme” in the article I posted, and that is where we are. Sad, hurts, but a reality, made worse by us viewing it differently. But such an extreme will be denied by the majority of posters here, that there is no way NFP and church teachings can cause this. Well, the article was written by a priest.

And so my advice to jonnlaureng is the same as yours - do what you need to preserve your marriage and pray and go to confession and make peace with your conscience and with God, but speaking from painful experience, the radical extreme is not the way to go. All because semen is supposed to land in one spot.

I do not for the life of me believe that God intends for couples to live with this kind of pain and separation, but we are told we are supposed to. Should we strive for intercourse as the ideal, as agape love is the ideal (again, read the article)? Yes. Should marriages suffer and couples not have sex or be sexually intimate at all for not being able to afford more kids or because the man orgasms other than thru intercourse? Not at all, nor do I believe that is what God wants. But it is what we are told.

 

[spunjalebi]

I think you are throwing blame in the wrong place. Sorry to be blunt, but you aren’t in this position because of NFP or because of the Church or because of God. You are in this position because you had sex in college. Your “dream college” wasn’t important enough to you to focus on your studies instead of fooling around. But now you regret having to leave and want to turn back the clock.

It seems you regret your past. That’s admirable. I hope you have also reconciled with the Church - doubly admirable. But bad choices come with consequences and sometimes those consequences have to be dealt with for a long, long time.

Instead of blaming everyone else, you need to put on your big girl pants, take responsibility for your actions and adjust your plans based on the new reality **that you created for yourself **instead of living in the land of “what could have been.”

I know this sounds harsh and I am sorry. I know many people who have made mistakes and have to live with the consequences, myself included. Some do better with the situations they have created than others.

I completely agree with you. The Church doesn’t “place” this responsibility on women; women are biologically predisposed to have children and rear them. There is a reason why marriage is the ONLY vocation where it is sinless to have sex and bear children. There is a reason why Christianity places such importance on remaining chaste before marriage.

It’s easy to get angry at the Church because She has held steadfast against the shifting sands of cultural immorality. But it’s time to start re-evaluating what you can do differently now. What can you do differently with NFP to space more time between the children? Is it really a grave circumstance to delay children right now? What NFP method are you using? I’ve been told by an NFP doctor that the Creighton method is the most scientifically-sound method.

You also say it doesn’t help that he deploys often in military. Perhaps I’m not understanding here, but if your husband is away and you don’t have sex, it means more time to not be pregnant, right? He might want to have sex while he is back but if the stretches of time in between deployments are short, why not have sex? You are denying your husband access to your body, so of course that won’t help your marriage.

 

[someperson555]

I AGREE WITH YOU. finally someone else who see show irrational the church’s view is on birth control.
im a catholic male, and i think a husband and wife should be able to do whatever they like in the bedroom (i.e, contraception and contraceptive sex)
trust me lol, NFP is no fun for men either, we have to wait until the women has her infertile cycles so that ruins a lot of romantic occasions.
there is just no strong argument against contraception.
HOWEVER, as much as i hate to say this, we have to obey church, regardless of how illogical or irratonal it is. we must pray for change in the church! regrdless of wether the pro-contraception catholics or the anti- contraception catholics are right, we cannot go wrong with prayer.
but i wholeheartedly believe that the church teaching will at least soften if not change altogether.

 

[SonCatcher]

In a sense, it is good that you are angry. It means, among other things, that you care about God’s plan and the Church’s authority.

That care can be a basis for continued communication and formation if you let it.

I will pray for your continuing growth.

 

[The_Bucket]

I’ll freely admit that I’m not addressing this in the most charitable way but I get pretty agitated when I see people publicly advocate for others to commit mortal sin. How about if I argued in favor of abortion or stealing or an affair because hey, we’re all in tough situations. It’s the same situation here.

I also get tired of hearing the “NFP is more effective than ABC” line from advocates of NFP. Because it’s a lie or at the very least it’s misleading and gives folks who favor ABC and think the Church needs to change it’s doctrine on that (never gonna happen, the Church never changes its doctrine) plenty of ammo. The truth is that NFP and most forms of ABC have comparable effectiveness with perfect use. The difference is that imperfect use leads to 25% “failure” rate with NFP and something like 8% for the pill and maybe 12% for condoms. That’s a big difference.

That said, there really isn’t any gray area here in terms of is and is not licit when it comes to family planning.

By the way, my comments certainly are not as snarky, at least when it comes to Church doctrine about a very serious issue as this line: “All because semen isn’t supposed to land somewhere?” That’s lovely.

 

[Winter_Warlock]

Jonnlaureng,

First off this is MY opinion only; please make your own decision. But I know that God spoke to Adam and Eve and told them to “be fruitful and multiply” I have yet to see or hear a passage that state that every intimate act between a husband and wife MUST be for the sole act of conception. I know that the church teaches this, and I love my faith and respect our leaders but if any act or no act leads to a marriage ending, someone blaming God when they should not, or someone just flat out leaving the church that I think is much worse.

If I am wrong in my opinion that there is a passage that states that intimate between Married couples must lead to the potential of conception then please feel free to let me know and I WILL change my thinking.

I do not offer my opinion as something to believe as we all must follow what is in our hearts, and put God first in everything and that also means placing God before the church. Again I love my faith and have nothing but respect for our leaders but God comes before everything and everyone.

May God bless and keep you All.

Winter