Animal cruelty and food

[McatholicN]

I’ve heard that much of our food comes from factory farms that treat animals (sometimes very) cruelly. I have no intention of becoming a vegan, but since animal cruelty is a sin (right?) would eating food that is a product of this be a sinful action? I’ve seen answers on here before that say that eating at a restaurant that funds Planned Parenthood, etc. is not sinful, but wouldn’t this be different because the food is an actual product of the animal cruelty?

Thanks!

 

[nickybr38]

I’ve heard that much of our food comes from factory farms that treat animals (sometimes very) cruelly. I have no intention of becoming a vegan, but since animal cruelty is a sin (right?) would eating food that is a product of this be a sinful action? I’ve seen answers on here before that say that eating at a restaurant that funds Planned Parenthood, etc. is not sinful, but wouldn’t this be different because the food is an actual product of the animal cruelty?

Thanks!

Why not try to find a local farmer where you can monitor or at least have a good idea that the animals are being treated well and not being fed hormones? That’s what I’ve done and I love my meat and eat it with a clear conscience.

I think the bigger concern then ‘are the animals treated cruelly’ is… what exactly are they feeding and/or pumping into these animals? I think it’s alarming how much they mess around with the animals we’re eating.

 

[Rascalking]

Animal cruelty IS sinful (I’m a vegetarian, not a vegan-big difference) and eating food from certain companies that knowingly and cruelly mistreat animals IS sinful.

Now, having said that, there is a middle ground here-it depends on how the animals are treated. Does the factory allow the animals to have some room to graze, excersize, live in a space that is decent sized, or do they just throw them in a small room, total darkness, and torture them for their brief lifespan? Do they quickly kill them, or make them suffer?

It boils down to your conscience. If you have trouble sleeping at night, or if it feels wrong, it probably is.

 

[McatholicN]

It is sinful? Is everyone supposed to check all the places that their food comes from? Catholics can’t go to McDonald’s (or probably nearly any restaurant, for that matter)? It’s not really my choice what food I eat - my parents and school, though I don’t think I’d want to go out of my way to search for family farm products, anyway. It doesn’t really weigh down on my conscience; I’m pretty scrupulous, anyway.

I’ll really be in trouble if this is sinful.

 

[Rence]

Animal cruelty IS sinful (I’m a vegetarian, not a vegan-big difference) and eating food from certain companies that knowingly and cruelly mistreat animals IS sinful.

Now, having said that, there is a middle ground here-it depends on how the animals are treated. Does the factory allow the animals to have some room to graze, excersize, live in a space that is decent sized, or do they just throw them in a small room, total darkness, and torture them for their brief lifespan? Do they quickly kill them, or make them suffer?

It boils down to your conscience. If you have trouble sleeping at night, or if it feels wrong, it probably is.

I agree that if you know about a food factory’s cruel practices, that it would be sinful to patronize them, because yes, animal cruelty is sinful. Like you, I think if it feels wrong, it is probably is. An alterntive is to patronize your local farmers. A little bit of research might help you find food providers that don’t make cruelty a part of their practices.

 

[Rascalking]

It is sinful? Is everyone supposed to check all the places that their food comes from? Catholics can’t go to McDonald’s (or probably nearly any restaurant, for that matter)? It’s not really my choice what food I eat - my parents and school, though I don’t think I’d want to go out of my way to search for family farm products, anyway. It doesn’t really weigh down on my conscience; I’m pretty scrupulous, anyway.

I’ll really be in trouble if this is sinful.

Ok than, I’ll try to be more clear-use common sense. Do some research. Look around. If your not sure, don’t eat there.

If your “scrupulous” then…um…don’t ask questions you don’t want the answer too!

 

[Job42]

I think this is pretty low on the totem pole regarding food and/or being an ethical consumer. Venial sin at worst IMO (but I am willing to be corrected.) I might get flamed for this but humans take precedence over animals. There are numerous HUMAN rights consequences that arise from our (including my own) actions as consumers of food products and nonfood products in the developed world. Whether those choices are venial or mortal or what I don’t know and I would actually be interested to know that myself. And no I don’t beat puppies, throw rocks at squirrels, or tear the legs off of Daddy Long Legs.

 

[Rascalking]

I think this is pretty low on the totem pole regarding food and/or being an ethical consumer. Venial sin at worst IMO (but I am willing to be corrected.) I might get flamed for this but humans take precedence over animals. There are numerous HUMAN rights consequences that arise from our (including my own) actions as consumers of food products and nonfood products in the developed world. Whether those choices are venial or mortal or what I don’t know and I would actually be interested to know that myself. And no I don’t beat puppies, throw rocks at squirrels, or tear the legs off of Daddy Long Legs.

Good that you don’t partake animal cruelty-we can start on that note!

There are other human rights issues that take precedence over animal ones, I totally agree, but that doesn’t mean serious animal abuse (Like the ones by some of our food companies) isn’t any less serious.

 

[Jaypeeto4]

Human issues and rights DO take precedence over animal issues, absolutely.

Still, being cruel to animals is something I find absolutely revolting.
And I am very, very, very, very far from being any kind of saint.
But it’s really, seriously wrong to be cruel to animals.

Many years ago, I learned how most cows used for veal were housed and treated.
It is abominable. They are subjected to terrible suffering, and cannot even move
or turn around.
I have never eaten a piece of veal in probably 35 or more years because of that.

Love,
Jaypeeto4
+JMJ+

 

[Bookcat]

There are various kinds of “remote cooperation” that one can have a good reason to “cooperate” with…ones confessor can also help one out. But I think usually we do not know nor do I imagine we have to search out how the animals we are eating were treated when we buy meat or go out to eat…(“excuse me miss” -man says to the waitress- “are these cruelty free eggs for the Eggs Benedict? or should I choose pancakes?” --hee hee)

Now if I know that say the pigs are tortured for my bacon…well I can switch brands.

 

[McatholicN]

I spoke to a seminarian about this and he said that you are not culpable if you are the third-in-line (tertiary) from the intial sinful action (we can’t judge if the person actually sinned or not, right?). In this case, the intial action would be the cruelty to animals, then the selling of that food, and then us - the buying and eating of that food. He said that this was from Saint Thomas Aquainas and agreed when I asked if it was backed by the Church. Is this the case?

If the majority of our meat and animal products comes from factory farms, shouldn’t our default assumption be that animal cruelty was used? It would be tough for me to start eating lettuce sandwiches, etc. at the lunchtable at school and the dinner table at home while everyone else has their hamburgers, steak, etc. beginning now.

 

[Rence]

Human issues and rights DO take precedence over animal issues, absolutely.

Still, being cruel to animals is something I find absolutely revolting.
And I am very, very, very, very far from being any kind of saint.
But it’s really, seriously wrong to be cruel to animals.

It’s especially revolting to me too…

Many years ago, I learned how most cows used for veal were housed and treated.
It is abominable. They are subjected to terrible suffering, and cannot even move
or turn around.
I have never eaten a piece of veal in probably 35 or more years because of that.

Yeah…patronize your local farmer for veal. Veal does NOT have to be housed and treated the way the commercial industry treats them. We had one of our cow’s bull calves processed very young for the veal, and he was the prince of the farm until he was taken to the butcher. We wait longer now because obviously, you get more meat, but yeah, see your local farmer if you like veal. It doesn’t have to be cruel…

 

[McatholicN]

Has anyone heard of the tertiary thing I spoke of earlier? Does it apply here?

 

[McatholicN]

Also, if this is sinful, does that make going to every other place that supports a sinful action in any way be sinful? I’d probably be hard pressed to find a company that doesn’t give some money to an unworthy cause.

 

[thistle]

Also, if this is sinful, does that make going to every other place that supports a sinful action in any way be sinful? I’d probably be hard pressed to find a company that doesn’t give some money to an unworthy cause.

There is no requirement for us to do deep research on every company or store before we make a purchase. Frankly that is ridiculous.
If I want to buy food I go to the supermarket and I do NOT think to myself is this meat from animals that have suffered. If I go to a store to buy a shirt I do NOT think to myself has this been made by child labour in India or prisoners in China. If I buy anything I do NOT think to myself is the manufacturer or store supporting something immoral.

 

[JaneGrey]

Animal cruelty IS sinful (I’m a vegetarian, not a vegan-big difference) and eating food from certain companies that knowingly and cruelly mistreat animals IS sinful.

Now, having said that, there is a middle ground here-it depends on how the animals are treated. Does the factory allow the animals to have some room to graze, excersize, live in a space that is decent sized, or do they just throw them in a small room, total darkness, and torture them for their brief lifespan? Do they quickly kill them, or make them suffer?

It boils down to your conscience. If you have trouble sleeping at night, or if it feels wrong, it probably is.

Good post. That sums it up for me as well. I sleep much better now not eating meat, although that by no means makes me a saint, and I have other sins that do keep me awake. I also dont judge people who eat meat, although it gets tiring hearing people talk about human rights taking precedence, which while true from a Catholic perspective, is a completely different, more complex issue.

 

[Jaypeeto4]

There is no requirement for us to do deep research on every company or store before we make a purchase. Frankly that is ridiculous.

No, it’s not ridiculous. You can go overboard with it, but it is NOT ridiculous.
Good grief, Liberal groups are past-masters at boycotting stores, banks,
companies, etc., which support or do not divest themselves from issues they find
serious.
Back during the 1980s, the “Free South Africa Movement,” which was backing both
a call for an end to (the cruel S.A. policy of) Apartheid and backing an ANC/leftwing takeover of South Africa, used every means at their disposal, including BOYCOTTS
of stores, banks, restaurants, manufacturers, etc., to force all businesses to
DIVEST from all their investments in South Africa. Regular citizens were urged to get rid of all their stocks in companies that wouldn’t quit doing business in South Africa.
And millions of people responded, and the pressure WAS PUT on the South African racist regime. That, and the fall of Communism, helped push the racist regime in Pretoria to buckle, and the rest is history.

If Catholics would do THAT with regard to companies that FUND ABORTION and promote other very sinful things, the way many Catholics participated in the boycotts to free South Africa of apartheid, a lot could conceivably change.
But things are REALLY bad now. Most large employers FORCE all new employees to sit through “Diversity Training” seminars when hired. I have no problem with the anti-racism and anti-sexism parts of the Diversity training, but the training also includes presentations on the “normality” and “goodness” of the practicing gay lifestyle, gay marriage, gay adoption, etc. This violates my right to NOT HAVE MY RELIGIOUS BELIEFS ASSAULTED BY MY EMPLOYER(S), yet, as far as I know, I and millions of other Christians who object to this Forced Indoctrination, have no legal recourse in order to put a stop to it. By the way, conservatives, these large corporations who force this immorality on their workers, are THE CHIEF beneficiaries of the Bush Tax Cuts which conservatives advocate so that these large corporations will use the extra money to
“create jobs” — which they don’t. They spend it on swill like I just described, and OUTSOURCE millions of needed American jobs OVERSEAS where they can pay the workers what, here in America, amounts to a slave-labor wage. THAT is what they are doing with those tax breaks, people. But I digress…

Jaypeeto4
+JMJ+

 

[Ridgerunner]

If the majority of our meat and animal products comes from factory farms, shouldn’t our default assumption be that animal cruelty was used? It would be tough for me to start eating lettuce sandwiches, etc. at the lunchtable at school and the dinner table at home while everyone else has their hamburgers, steak, etc. beginning now.

I wonder how many people who talk about “factory farms” have ever been in one. Undoubtedly there are some that are terrible, but I have never been in one that was.

Assuming animal cruelty in “factory farms” should not be taken as the “default position”.

-I have been in poultry houses which, by the way, are almost entirely owned by individual farmers, not the agribusiness companies. Individual farmers only contract with the big companies. The ones I have been in are spacious, with food and water available at all times, heat, light and cooling. The floors are several inches of wood shavings or rice hulls, which absorb the waste, and are removed and replaced after each flock. The underlying floor, along with the walls and equipment are, between flocks, sprayed down with antibacterial solutions and scrupulously cleaned.

I have been in hog-producing facilities, both corporate and private. To my mind, hogs are always nasty-smelling, no matter what. But competent hog producing places have concrete floors that are tilted so they can wash the waste into a sewage treatment system. Again, the temps are controlled. Plenty of food and water. But they sure smell bad. I don’t know if the hogs know it or care. Most hogs are raised by individuals, not by big companies. The #1 hog producer in the nation not long ago got rid of all of its own facilities and buys now from individual farmers. Hogs will catch nearly every human disease and a lot of others, and their health is very carefully tended to. Hog farmers generally won’t let you into the houses for that reason. They are very careful not to spread contagion of any kind.

I raise cattle and have been in feed lots. I have never seen an indoor confinement facility for beef, though I guess they do have them for veal production and that sounds bad. Cattle are raised on pastures and in the open. Grass is a lot cheaper than grain, and it would be expensive and stupid to raise them any other way. The “prime” steers and heifers are the only ones that are ever confined in feed lots. Most feed lots are owned by individuals and families. Some are, indeed, large facilities owned by corporations. Feed lots smell bad because of the fermenting grain that gets spilled. They spend from 80 to 120 days in them, the rest of their lives on grass. The feed lots are open to the air, and the floors get dug out between each group. Their health is monitored by USDA, as is any use of hormones or antibiotics.

Being cruel to animals is self-defeating. Processors want the animals to be as pristine as possible. No bruises, no cuts, no diseases, no cripples, no filth, no infections. It’s stupid to be cruel, and I don’t think many producers are either one.

 

[nickybr38]

I wonder how many people who talk about “factory farms” have ever been in one. Undoubtedly there are some that are terrible, but I have never been in one that was.

Assuming animal cruelty in “factory farms” should not be taken as the “default position”.

-I have been in poultry houses which, by the way, are almost entirely owned by individual farmers, not the agribusiness companies. Individual farmers only contract with the big companies. The ones I have been in are spacious, with food and water available at all times, heat, light and cooling. The floors are several inches of wood shavings or rice hulls, which absorb the waste, and are removed and replaced after each flock. The underlying floor, along with the walls and equipment are, between flocks, sprayed down with antibacterial solutions and scrupulously cleaned.

I have been in hog-producing facilities, both corporate and private. To my mind, hogs are always nasty-smelling, no matter what. But competent hog producing places have concrete floors that are tilted so they can wash the waste into a sewage treatment system. Again, the temps are controlled. Plenty of food and water. But they sure smell bad. I don’t know if the hogs know it or care. Most hogs are raised by individuals, not by big companies. The #1 hog producer in the nation not long ago got rid of all of its own facilities and buys now from individual farmers. Hogs will catch nearly every human disease and a lot of others, and their health is very carefully tended to. Hog farmers generally won’t let you into the houses for that reason. They are very careful not to spread contagion of any kind.

I raise cattle and have been in feed lots. I have never seen an indoor confinement facility for beef, though I guess they do have them for veal production and that sounds bad. Cattle are raised on pastures and in the open. Grass is a lot cheaper than grain, and it would be expensive and stupid to raise them any other way. The “prime” steers and heifers are the only ones that are ever confined in feed lots. Most feed lots are owned by individuals and families. Some are, indeed, large facilities owned by corporations. Feed lots smell bad because of the fermenting grain that gets spilled. They spend from 80 to 120 days in them, the rest of their lives on grass. The feed lots are open to the air, and the floors get dug out between each group. Their health is monitored by USDA, as is any use of hormones or antibiotics.

Being cruel to animals is self-defeating. Processors want the animals to be as pristine as possible. No bruises, no cuts, no diseases, no cripples, no filth, no infections. It’s stupid to be cruel, and I don’t think many producers are either one.

I was always taught (coming from a largely agricultural community) that the stories of cruelty in animal farms was propoganda and mostly untrue. I too have never seen a facility that treated it’s animals badly but I’ve only ever seen a hog farm, a milk cow facility and a commercial cattle farmer.

Growing up we had a rancher down the road who raised cattle for the ‘market’, as it were. He had a herd that was well over a thousand head. They were all free to roam about, none were kept inside homes and they were generally very healthy and happy cows (as happy as cows get from what I could see). I’d drive by those animals every day and they were generally healthier looking then ours were! Haha.

Anyway, I think people assume there’s a lot of terrible treatment going on but you have to check your sources. Who is saying these animals are being treated cruelly? Do they even understand how animals work? Do they have proof or are they just telling stories? What is their agenda? Who do they work for?

I would think twice about any article about animal cruelty written by someone who’s never lived on a farm because quite frankly there ARE things that go on that SEEM cruel from the outside but when you understand the animal you know it’s not really (can’t think of any immediate examples but I know there were a few times friends of mine would complain about how we treated our animals but they just didn’t understand).

 

[Ridgerunner]

I was always taught (coming from a largely agricultural community) that the stories of cruelty in animal farms was propoganda and mostly untrue. I too have never seen a facility that treated it’s animals badly but I’ve only ever seen a hog farm, a milk cow facility and a commercial cattle farmer.

Growing up we had a rancher down the road who raised cattle for the ‘market’, as it were. He had a herd that was well over a thousand head. They were all free to roam about, none were kept inside homes and they were generally very healthy and happy cows (as happy as cows get from what I could see). I’d drive by those animals every day and they were generally healthier looking then ours were! Haha.

Anyway, I think people assume there’s a lot of terrible treatment going on but you have to check your sources. Who is saying these animals are being treated cruelly? Do they even understand how animals work? Do they have proof or are they just telling stories? What is their agenda? Who do they work for?

I would think twice about any article about animal cruelty written by someone who’s never lived on a farm because quite frankly there ARE things that go on that SEEM cruel from the outside but when you understand the animal you know it’s not really (can’t think of any immediate examples but I know there were a few times friends of mine would complain about how we treated our animals but they just didn’t understand).

I have seen absolutely fabricated films made by USPCA and PETA. They spread those around and people believe they are representative.

Some things do seem cruel because people don’t understand the nature of the animal. I remember once when an urban sister-in-law was appalled because our cattle were out in the weather in the winter and didn’t have a nice, cozy barn to go hole up in. Truth is, they’re healthier out in the weather and are built to stand it, at least in the climate we have here. Barns encourage disease, and they’re better off not being in them. That’s beef cattle I’m talking about. They do milk cows in barns.

Some veterinary treatment can seem cruel until you realize how dangerous it is to a large animal if you to try to anaesthetize one. They can only be down so long and live. And their pain thresholds are very different from ours. In the right circumstances you could hit a cow with a club and she wouldn’t notice. But a p(name removed by moderator)rick from a vaccination needle and she might jump right up in your face and smash your skull. But if you pop her twice with the flat of your hand and then push in the needle, she think’s it’s just another pop and pays no attention whatever.

And, of course, cattle will fight each other establishing their pecking order with a force that would instantly kill a human being, but which seems not to bother them at all.

There are a lot of things like that. You really have to realize that we’re not them and they’re not us.