Animal Rights

[Rolltide]

I would listen to anyone in my family cause they are farmers. If I knew the other family, maybe, but usually they don’t know much of anything that I don’t, they might think they do.

This attitude explains a lot, actually. It is arrogant for anyone to believe that they can’t learn from someone. It’s a lesson that I teach every single day as a history professor. It’s also one that I know very well myself. After grammar school, I was an undergraduate for 5 years, took 2 years for my Master’s degree, and then went another 7 years for my Ph.D. That’s TWENTY-SIX years of school, and I’ll tell you what… I still don’t even come close to knowing everything about my subject, although I could certainly be considered an expert. A responsible person is always learning new things. That doesn’t mean that you adopt ideas recklessly, of course. Many people indeed DON’T know what they’re talking about. But, the smart thing to do is look at the evidence, give an idea a fair evaluation, and if it seems to be good, then you consider it. The inventions of barbed wire and fertilizer were some of the most important in the history of farming, and yet, they were scoffed at by many. Crop rotation took centuries to catch on. Yet there have always been pioneers in farming that have made terrific advancements. I’m well aware of them, one of my alma maters is Iowa State University, a famous agricultural school. One of it’s famous alums is George Washington Carver, the great African American who invented, among other things, peanut butter, spurring an entirely new crop to grow in parts of the US.

Now, I’m not saying your family aren’t good farmers / ranchers. I’m sure they are. However, a good farmer collaborates. They share what works with others. They go to school. They keep learning. Farming and ranching is sophisticated these days. Agricultural science is a rapidly growing field. That doesn’t mean you have to adopt everything that they say, or that even everything they say is right. It simply gives you options, and that can help you have healthier crops, healthier livestock, better earnings, and it can even help you survive more extreme weather.

 

[That_one_guy]

What about quotation marks rights?Is it right to elevate the lowly asterisk to the level of a quotation mark?
The quotation mark quotes,…it likens unto,…it is descriptive in its function.
An asterisk is a reference device.It say’s look down here and see what I am referring to.All you asterisk hugging artistic license type people are taking jobs away from starving quotation marks!!!

shame on you!!!:tsktsk:
Shaaaaaaaame!!!

 

[That_one_guy]

HOLY COW!!!
news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20081213/wl_uk_afp/britainreligionanimalshinducow;_ylt=AuWaqYerRmTXZyoWxv4fyRF4hMgF

 

[That_one_guy]

or even,…

news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081211/ap_on_fe_st/odd_peta_coffins;_ylt=Arxc0bZMCkUu_3Ll92R0oeh4hMgF

I can’t make this stuff up.

 

[LaLucia]

I skipped most of the postings…it was just too much to read.

I just want to say is that it was the Animal Rights groups that were the first group to also RECUSE ABUSED CHILDREN.
Because of them America started Child Welfare Rights in order to rescue abused children.

Animals do a great service to handicapped people who are physically or emotionally ill.

Pets give a lot of joy to people. It stops the loneliness when you are all alone and don’t have family members to keep you company. It was my dog as a child who saved me from my abusive parents. I would cry with my dog Mickey and tell her all of my problems. She was just a dog but she was there for me to comfort me.

YES, I do donate money to people charities but I also have a right to have a pet to give me love and joy in my life.

I don’t like the PETA radical groups who throw paint on people
wearing fur coats during the winter months. They are hurting people when they do that and it makes me really upset when I see the PETA people doing that to other people.

Only God should judge us and the PETA radicals should not throw stones/paint at people. They are assulting people in a malicious manner.

 

[mary_bobo]

I don’t have pets. I think it is rather silly to own a pet. If it is a working animal, that’s okay, but just a pet is silly for both human and animal.

If you eat a lot of ****, you probably shouldn’t feed it to your dogs. However if you eat a healthy diet, there is nothing wrong with feeding the scraps to a dog. Most dogs are scavengers at heart, they love rotten food that they find in a compost heap or any other means. They can also catch and kill small animals and eat them if they aren’t too pampered or inbred.

As for cats, their use is to catch mice. My son had a lot of mice in his home, until he owned a cat, which kept them at bay. Farmers used to suppliment cats’ diets by spraying milk from cows they were milking into the cats’ mouths.

I happily join the troops of sillies who own pets. Sorry if you have missed the closeness of a loving companion in your life. But, then again, we are all different, aren’t we.

 

[redhen]

I just want to say is that it was the Animal Rights groups that were the first group to also RECUSE ABUSED CHILDREN.Because of them America started Child Welfare Rights in order to rescue abused children.

The Royal Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals, created in 1824, had as one it’s founders William Wilberforce, who abolished slavery in the British empire.

The common denominator, is that these were all people who had the courage to stand up and speak for those who could not: animals, children and slaves.

animallaw.info/historical/articles/arukrspcahist.htm

God bless them.

 

[cathybramble]

The Royal Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals, created in 1824, had as one it’s founders William Wilberforce, who abolished slavery in the British empire.

The common denominator, is that these were all people who had the courage to stand up and speak for those who could not: animals, children and slaves.

animallaw.info/historical/articles/arukrspcahist.htm

God bless them.

yes. there is no need to set the dignity of the victims as equal. it’s the cruelty of the perpetrator that needs to be addressed. personally i believe that there is a link between accepted violence against animals and the accepted violence of abortion.

 

[That_one_guy]

The Royal Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals, created in 1824, had as one it’s founders William Wilberforce, who abolished slavery in the British empire.

The common denominator, is that these were all people who had the courage to stand up and speak for those who could not: animals, children and slaves.

animallaw.info/historical/articles/arukrspcahist.htm

God bless them.

Pro-life means ALL life.So many factors affect each and everyone of us that All things need to be taken into account.
And I don’t probably need to mention the spiritual ramifications of it all either.

 

[Sam_Maloney]

Pro-life means ALL life.So many factors affect each and everyone of us that All things need to be taken into account.
And I don’t probably need to mention the spiritual ramifications of it all either.

So, if ‘pro life’ means all life, and since you must be pro life to be truely Catholic, you can’t be Catholic and eat meat…

Or take an anti-biotic. Bacteria is alive too.

This isn’t Catholic teaching, and I’m sick of being made to feel like a bad Catholic because I don’t subscribe you your dietary code.

 

[cathybramble]

So, if ‘pro life’ means all life, and since you must be pro life to be truely Catholic, you can’t be Catholic and eat meat…

Or take an anti-biotic. Bacteria is alive too.

This isn’t Catholic teaching, and I’m sick of being made to feel like a bad Catholic because I don’t subscribe you your dietary code.

no one has said that. but you can’t say that a good catholic causes, supports, or contributes to wanton suffering to animals for the sake of greed. if that doesn’t apply to you, then stop feeling picked on. but don’t expect me to feel sorry for corporate giants like KFC, hormel, and butterball because peta goes after them. IMO peta is right to go after them. if peta comes after you, then you have my empathy.

what i’m sick of is that this topic can’t be discussed without someone accusing compassionate people of either elevating animals to human status, or having some agenda to convert the world to veganism, or wanting to destroy family farms. over and over in every thread i’ve posted in i have said otherwise but people have twisted what i’ve said and even accused me of saying things i never did.

when people resort to putting words into other people’s mouths, it only shows that they have no viable argument for their point of view so they have to create something to complain about.

 

[mary_bobo]

So, if ‘pro life’ means all life, and since you must be pro life to be truely Catholic, you can’t be Catholic and eat meat…

Or take an anti-biotic. Bacteria is alive too.

This isn’t Catholic teaching, and I’m sick of being made to feel like a bad Catholic because I don’t subscribe you your dietary code.

Don’t feel bad, Sam. Let’s get with some other like-minded forum folk and go out for a big juicy steak and a stein of beer.

 

[That_one_guy]

So, if ‘pro life’ means all life, and since you must be pro life to be truely Catholic, you can’t be Catholic and eat meat…

Or take an anti-biotic. Bacteria is alive too.

This isn’t Catholic teaching, and I’m sick of being made to feel like a bad Catholic because I don’t subscribe you your dietary code.

With all due respect,sir,…I will say this one more time.
It is not about whether you are allowed to eat meat or not.It is about the ethical treatment of animals.
Just because there is evidence to support the claim that humans were not designed to eat meat,…and just because there are many of us who choose not to eat meat,…this does not mean that YOU should not eat meat.If it bugs you so much,maybe there is a subconscious issue of guilt.I don’t know.Do it for lent.
I don’t care if you eat meat.If you can raise pigs and cattle and turkeys and chickens,etc. for food,in an ETHICAL AND HUMANE fashion, then please do.
Most animal lovers don’t care if you eat meat.kpeople: Just DO NOT BE CRUEL TO THE LIVESTOCK!!!

 

[cathybramble]

Don’t feel bad, Sam. Let’s get with some other like-minded forum folk and go out for a big juicy steak and a stein of beer.

absolutely… but… is it really so much to ask that the animals raised for food to be treated in humane ways? can we get to that place in the discussion without someone making wild accusations about banning meat and equating animals with humans?

 

[Newbie2]

I can’t believe I’ve missed out on this thread…

As a practicing veterinarian of just over 20 years and an in-training moral theologian, lemme weigh in on this discussion:

Then treat then kindly. Americans spend billions on pet care and veterinarian care each year. Imagine how many Catholic Schools could be funded, hospitals, adoptions etc…

The money that people in my neighborhood that spend money in my practice on their pets helps my local parish and local high school through my sons tuition and my ability to make a livlihood.

Sorry, gotta strongly disagree: commercial dog foods are formulated to generate profits, not health. Many have ingredients like corn and sorbitol that are potential toxins for dogs, and other nastiness like rancid fats, by products too foul even for use in hot dogs, and the contents of cattle stomachs ‘animal digest’].

A slice of roast beef, boned turkey or chicken, or even the [occsional] french fry that would otherwise end up in the trash is way better for your pet, your pocket book, and the planet than most of this overpriced, over processed junk.

But you do need to be a savy, educated pet owner. Part of that is not trusting everything a pet food manufacturer says…

As a veterinary professional, I disagree. The occasional lean piece of meat, potato, or veggie is rarely harmful, but to think that one can adequately balance a pet’s diet for protein, fat, carbs, vitamins and minerals better than a company that stakes it’s reputation on the results of it’s food…not to mention that spends hundreds of thousands of dollars annually for nutritional research is…unwise.

Agreed, though, more expensive isn’t always better.

Re: pet food–

I guess it all depends on what’s coming off your table. But saying pets can’t live on people food is simply incorrect. Some stuff we eat is problematic for dogs, but so are a LOT of the ingredients in ‘mainstream’ pet foods.

The line that table scraps will kill your pet is one that General Mills and the other mainstream companies have been trying to push for years.

By all means, be a responsible pet owner, understand what you are feeding, and that some stuff that’s good for you, isn’t good for them.

In my practice I see an obesity rate of about 60-70%, and when questioned, all of the owners of obese pets feed “table scraps”, some in addition to the pet’s food and some just feed table scraps.

The day I meet someone who can correctly balance their pet’s diet on their own is the day I’ll start recommending table scraps for pets.

Tell that to all the older people who fed their dogs table scraps all their lives.

And I treat a lot of those pets for obesity, premature osteoarthritis, diabetes, ruptured cruciate ligaments, the list goes on…

What does PETA have to gain? Millions and millions of dollars in donations, as well as the self righteous rage of the revolutionary, the halos of the crusaders, and the smug self satisfaction of people convinced that they are infinetly better, wiser, kinder than the mere working man they seek to grind beneath their heels.

Evil? Haven’t called them that, but I think it fits.

Apparently you have to start them on vegetables early. The vet who advised me that my cats should eat meat and vegs told me that as the two cats I had adopted were about a year old I probably wouldn’t be able to get them to eat them eat vegetables.

I used to get these two cats to eat new kinds of pet food etc by putting some on a plate and and pretending that I was enjoying it. Then they would usually ask for some.

Cats are obligate carnivores; occasional veggie supplimentation is OK, but more likely than not they’ll look at you like you’re from another planet…well, they do that anyway, but you know what I mean.

BTW, raw meat diets for pets…***bad idea. *** I don’t know where people come up with this stuff.

 

[Newbie2]

OK, now for the moral theology:

A lot of this “animal rights” stuff came from the speciest argument of Peter Singer, who equates animals with humans…which, of course, is inconsistant with Catholic teaching.

 

[That_one_guy]

OK, now for the moral theology:

A lot of this “animal rights” stuff came from the speciest argument of Peter Singer, who equates animals with humans…which, of course, is inconsistant with Catholic teaching.

I don’t even know who this peter springer guy is:shrug: .
I just like animals.These ideas came from where?
CCC

Just one of the passages,…there are others…

2457 Animals are entrusted to man’s stewardship; he must show them kindness. They may be used to serve the just satisfaction of man’s needs.

Sheesh!

enough with the sound bites…

 

[Zooey]

I skipped most of the postings…it was just too much to read.

I just want to say is that it was the Animal Rights groups that were the first group to also RECUSE ABUSED CHILDREN.
Because of them America started Child Welfare Rights in order to rescue abused children.

Yes! I am so glad you mentioned this.
The first conviction for child abuse in the United States came when the ASPCA brought charges of “animal abuse” against the parents of a poor little child that was starved, beaten, etc…really was,IMO,tortured.
There were no laws to protect children. But the folks who had formed the Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals stepped in & won the day.
"LaLucia:

Animals do a great service to handicapped people who are physically or emotionally ill.

Pets give a lot of joy to people. It stops the loneliness when you are all alone and don’t have family members to keep you company. It was my dog as a child who saved me from my abusive parents. I would cry with my dog Mickey and tell her all of my problems. She was just a dog but she was there for me to comfort me.

YES, I do donate money to people charities but I also have a right to have a pet to give me love and joy in my life.

I don’t like the PETA radical groups who throw paint on people
wearing fur coats during the winter months. They are hurting people when they do that and it makes me really upset when I see the PETA people doing that to other people.

Only God should judge us and the PETA radicals should not throw stones/paint at people. They are assulting people in a malicious manner.

:clapping: :clapping:

I can’t believe I’ve missed out on this thread…

As a practicing veterinarian of just over 20 years and an in-training moral theologian, lemme weigh in on this discussion:

The money that people in my neighborhood that spend money in my practice on their pets helps my local parish and local high school through my sons tuition and my ability to make a livlihood.

As a veterinary professional, I disagree. The occasional lean piece of meat, potato, or veggie is rarely harmful, but to think that one can adequately balance a pet’s diet for protein, fat, carbs, vitamins and minerals better than a company that stakes it’s reputation on the results of it’s food…not to mention that spends hundreds of thousands of dollars annually for nutritional research is…unwise.

Agreed, though, more expensive isn’t always better.

In my practice I see an obesity rate of about 60-70%, and when questioned, all of the owners of obese pets feed “table scraps”, some in addition to the pet’s food and some just feed table scraps.

The day I meet someone who can correctly balance their pet’s diet on their own is the day I’ll start recommending table scraps for pets.

And I treat a lot of those pets for obesity, premature osteoarthritis, diabetes, ruptured cruciate ligaments, the list goes on…

Cats are obligate carnivores; occasional veggie supplimentation is OK, but more likely than not they’ll look at you like you’re from another planet…well, they do that anyway, but you know what I mean.

BTW, raw meat diets for pets…***bad idea. ***I don’t know where people come up with this stuff.

Oh yes, the raw meat cranks. They never seem to have heard of intestinal parasites (not to mention other diseases). Having had to rush a cat to the vet’s office in the middle of the night when the worms she had (when she came home to live with me) formed a complete blockage & all she could do was puke until I got her there…He said, she could have:crying: died! And yet:banghead: folks will go out of their way to feed raw meat and fish (fish !!) to their animals, who are hungry and dependent on us for food.

 

[Newbie2]

I don’t even know who this peter springer guy is:shrug: .
I just like animals.These ideas came from where?
CCC

Just one of the passages,…there are others…

2457 Animals are entrusted to man’s stewardship; he must show them kindness. They may be used to serve the just satisfaction of man’s needs.

Sheesh!

enough with the sound bites…

Peter Singer. Jerry Springer. Wise to take neither seriously.

 

[LaLucia]

Talking about pets…last night they had two shows on people who owned different types of pets and how wonderful they were.
I live in the Los Angeles, Calif. area and it was fun watching one of the shows.

The best story was on how a man who lived alone and had a medical problem trained his dog to dial 911 in case he got seriously ill. The man was listed as having a medical problem when they got the 911 call and heard the dog barking into the telephone. They rushed over and saved his life.

The most popular story took place in the 1970’s. a young couple who owned a young male lion that they rescued from some pet shop in London…decided after a few years to send the Lion to Africa. The lion survived in Africa and had cubs. Two years later the couple decided to visit the Lion. When the lion saw the couple he ran up to them and started hugging them and kissing them like animals do. It was amazing to see it and unbelieveable.
I think they said they have it on a website or Youtube.com where people all over the world have seen it over and over. It is the best story ever according to the t.v. show.

My favorite story is the POT BELLY PIG who saved the life of his lady owner who got ill all of a sudden. The pig was able to get the attention of car drivers by lying on the middle of the street until somebody followed him into his house and found the ill lady and called for help.

I love animals but most of all I love people. I had a career where I worked helping people most of my life. I am retired now and I am happy that we had lots of pets in our family home.
As we get older as seniors we start to lose our family members. They only thing we have left is the companion of pets in our homes. AT church we have our church friends too. Plus God is always with me.