Animal Rights

[That_one_guy]

puppypatrol:
So,what do we do?

 

[puppypatrol]

So,what do we do?

Do about what? The police? The whiners?

Actually, first things first, all the animal welfare groups need to get together and get on the same page. Then find out which state agency oversees animal welfare. In Iowa it is the Department of Agriculture. After that, make a real pain in the but of yourself to state legislature and the agency overseeing animal welfare. Law enforcement has their hands tied regarding what they can do depending on the laws of the state. Those laws probably need to be changed and updated and an organization of an agency whose sole purpose is animal welfare. In Iowa, the Department of Agriculture has far too much to do to be able to spend much time and resourses on animals. They aren’t a high priority. We need to keep at the legislature to fix the problem, not apply a bandaid and people like PETA need to get realistic and spend their energy on the people that can actually make the changes and not tying up valuable but inappropriate resourses.

The real problem is in the laws and the punishment for violators.

 

[cathybramble]

Do about what? The police? The whiners?

Actually, first things first, all the animal welfare groups need to get together and get on the same page. Then find out which state agency oversees animal welfare. In Iowa it is the Department of Agriculture. After that, make a real pain in the but of yourself to state legislature and the agency overseeing animal welfare. Law enforcement has their hands tied regarding what they can do depending on the laws of the state. Those laws probably need to be changed and updated and an organization of an agency whose sole purpose is animal welfare. In Iowa, the Department of Agriculture has far too much to do to be able to spend much time and resourses on animals. They aren’t a high priority. We need to keep at the legislature to fix the problem, not apply a bandaid and people like PETA need to get realistic and spend their energy on the people that can actually make the changes and not tying up valuable but inappropriate resourses.
**
The real problem is in the laws and the punishment for violators.**

yes… i think it’s also in enforcement. it was a sad shame that the HSUS had to expose the cruelty at the chino slaughterhouse when the USDA goes around assuring people that these places are held to standards

 

[puppypatrol]

yes… i think it’s also in enforcement. it was a sad shame that the HSUS had to expose the cruelty at the chino slaughterhouse when the USDA goes around assuring people that these places are held to standards

You may want to read all of my post if you are talking about sheriff departments and police department. The USDA does not have the time nor the resources to do all of the overseeing themselves, they rely on state agencies and the state laws differ from state to state, most of which are obsolete and extremely vague.

Also keep in mind that the slaughter house in Chino and the hog production farm in Greene County, Iowa are not the norm but the exceptions. Whatever you do, DON’T LISTEN TO PETA, THEY ARE WAYYYYYYYYY OVER THE EDGE.

 

[That_one_guy]

The USDA does not have the time nor the resources to do all of the overseeing themselves, they rely on state agencies and the state laws differ from state to state, most of which are obsolete and extremely vague

So,who is to fill in this spot? Is there not a place for concerned citizens?

.

Also keep in mind that the slaughter house in Chino and the hog production farm in Greene County, Iowa are not the norm but the exceptions.

The norm or the exception is not the issue.The issue is that it happens at all.Sort of like the child abuse at the hands of our priests thing.One bad apple don’t spoil the whole bunch,as they say.But,still,…we need to get rid of the bad apples.

Whatever you do, DON’T LISTEN TO PETA, THEY ARE WAYYYYYYYYY OVER THE EDGE.

Who are we supposed to listen to?Who is going to speak out against the abuse?Do we just sit around and hope for change like the Obama slogan said?

 

[cathybramble]

You may want to read all of my post if you are talking about sheriff departments and police department. The USDA does not have the time nor the resources to do all of the overseeing themselves, they rely on state agencies and the state laws differ from state to state, most of which are obsolete and extremely vague.

Also keep in mind that the slaughter house in Chino and the hog production farm in Greene County, Iowa are not the norm but the exceptions. Whatever you do, DON’T LISTEN TO PETA, THEY ARE WAYYYYYYYYY OVER THE EDGE.

if the USDA cannot manage their job, they need to give that aspect of it to someone who can and will. that is what bothers me.

and well… i had this conversation on another catholic site last year. amongst the rotten tomatoes and jeers from people who don’t know what “dominion” really means, two people came forward who had been USDA inspectors, and they told me outright, this kind of thing is not uncommon. both of them left that job because it made them sick. another gal came forward whose husband worked at a hog production farm (not in iowa), saying that he could not believe the horrific treatment of the animals there either.

i neither take PETA’s word as gospel, nor do i deny that what they say might just be true. because of corroboration from independent sources, i’m inclined to believe that not everything they say is “propaganda” - i think people who don’t want to know the truth prefer to believe that PETA is making it all up.

 

[puppypatrol]

So,who is to fill in this spot? Is there not a place for concerned citizens?

 

[cathybramble]

Unfortunately, if you live in a state that doesn’t have an ASPCA or Humane Society, like Iowa, (yes, it’s amazing isn’t it) your choices are limited. You can call the Sheriff’s office or the Police Department and they will investigate it but keep in mind there are many deputies and officers who don’t really know what to look for in neglect cases. Abuse cases are a little easer to spot but not always easy to prove and, with law enforcement, they HAVE to prove it to the County Attorney who has to prove it to a magistrate who then decided if the charges are warranted and what the bond, if any will be.

Yes, get rid of the bad apples but make sure they are bad before you throw them out and don’t bruise the rest in the process (Sorry, another passion of mine after seeing so many falsely accused but that is in another thread) While I agree that even once is one time too many, it doesn’t help when the penalty is the same as writing a bad check or calling someone a name.
For heaven’s sake, don’t just sit there waiting for something to change. (and, no, I did not vote for Obama. I’m not excited about the changes he proposes, i.e lifting restrictions on abortions, etc…) That’s why I said, at the beginning of my additions to this thread, all of the animal welfare groups in the state need to first get together and make sure they are all on the same page. Lobby legislators to change the laws, volunteer to “triage” complaints for the overseeing agency according to each individual’s specialty and then pass the information on to the appropriate agency so the proper action can be taken. I occasionally will check out complaints given to me and then take the information to work. Then, most importantly, be patient. Let the legal system do it’s job in proscuting the offenders. If you have judges that trivialize these cases time and time again, vote or petition to have them removed. If they are trivializing animal neglect/abuse cases they are probably trivializing neglect/abuse of people and other crimes that affect society.

Now, for cathybramble, I didn’t say PETA makes thing up. What I said was that, from experience, they break too many moral and civil laws. Most of the video tapes they post to their website cannot be used in court because they were obtained illegally and they know it. They use the tapes to agitate the public which isn’t fixing the problem. Then the Sheriff’s office gets hundreds of phone calls from around the country wanting to know why people haven’t been arrested, why hasn’t the facility been closed, etc… all before the first 24 hours of the investigation are up and taking time away from the investigation. PETA also tends to make those investigations more difficult than helping resolve the issue. There is a right way of doing things and there is a wrong way. I don’t have a problem with any other group.

thank you for explaining this - i didn’t realize they were hindering their own causes. while i think they do a lot to raise awareness (and there is a place for that), if it works against the very thing they claim to be fighting for, then well… that’s just stupid.

i was happy when CA’s prop 2 passed. i think the HSUS is on the right track with the way they are going about things.

 

[stringbeanduck]

oh yes.But,this is off topic.So,everybody take your animals inside.If you live near me or Cathy.I don’t care if they are born with fur coats.It’s cold out there!!!

My ducks and goose got a lot of feather’s, so they’re ready for the cold. One thing that I do have to watch, is the ice though. They rely on me to break it for them when it gets well below freezing.

 

[Faustina2001]

Ok I love Animals, Don’t get me wrong but sometimes I feel that Animals have more rights then the unborn children and even more rights then humans we have sex offenders let out on parole and yet we have someone who had 35 dogs taken to prison for life. I don’t undersand can anyone explain this to me…
Faustina

 

[cathybramble]

Ok I love Animals, Don’t get me wrong but sometimes I feel that Animals have more rights then the unborn children and even more rights then humans we have sex offenders let out on parole and yet we have someone who had 35 dogs taken to prison for life. I don’t undersand can anyone explain this to me…
Faustina

i don’t see that animals have more rights than people. sex offenders are people, so they have rights to be let out as the law allows (not saying it’s always moral, but they have those rights). i have never heard of someone going to prison for life for having 35 dogs. can you post a link to where you read this?

pro-choice people who argue for animal rights baffle me. i can’t speak for them.

 

[That_one_guy]

My ducks and goose got a lot of feather’s, so they’re ready for the cold. One thing that I do have to watch, is the ice though. They rely on me to break it for them when it gets well below freezing.

They don’t get frozen in the water do they? That would really stink.

 

[JReducation]

I believe that the CCC speaks clearly on this subject. Someone posted directly from the CCCC on an earlier post.

From my point of view is not so much whether animals have more rights than people or whether there should be organizations to protect animals. If I’m reading the CCC correctly, it’s really about our duties as stewards of creation.

We have a duty to other living things to make sure that they are treated with kindness, humanely and are not abused. In other words, we cannot be indifferent to the created world, including animals. If there are organizations that promote good stewardship, then we should support their efforts.

Even the Holy Father allows cats to live in his private home.

JR

 

[puppypatrol]

I believe that the CCC speaks clearly on this subject. Someone posted directly from the CCCC on an earlier post.

From my point of view is not so much whether animals have more rights than people or whether there should be organizations to protect animals. If I’m reading the CCC correctly, it’s really about our duties as stewards of creation.

We have a duty to other living things to make sure that they are treated with kindness, humanely and are not abused. In other words, we cannot be indifferent to the created world, including animals. If there are organizations that promote good stewardship, then we should support their efforts.

Even the Holy Father allows cats to live in his private home.

JR

You’re right. As I have said before, if you follow the CCC you can’t go wrong. (this is where the “but” comes in) Do you realize how many people don’t know what the CCC is or what it teaches? Do you realize how many Catholics don’t know there are teachings in the CCC on how to be a good steward of the creation God has given us. That is where it is important that we, as GOOD Catholic have to work with others in educating them and protecting God’s creation. It really isn’t about animal “rights” (that really isn’t quite the right word) but that none of Gods creatures should be abused or neglected. And then there are those who don’t care and get lots of excitement and personal gratification from the pain of others, animal or human. These are the people it is most important to protect against since studies have shown that a person who will abuse or neglect an animal (especially a pet) will probably abuse, neglect, assault, or kill people around them.

The laws need to change and it is up to those of us who know better to change them throught the proper channels. If you don’t like the attitudes of the judges and magestrates, petition to have them removed and make sure they know why. There are lots of things we can do about this without destroying or damaging property or getting ourselves arrested for trespass, etc… but the best change happens when it is a combined efford and volunteers are always welcome.

 

[puppypatrol]

Genesis 1 : 26 - 31

26 Then God said: “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness. Let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, the birds of the air, and the cattle, and over all the wild animals and all the creatures that crawl on the ground.”
27 God created man in his image; in the divine image he created him; male and female he created them.
28 God blessed them, saying: “Be fertile and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it. Have dominion over the fish of the sea, the birds of the air, and all the living things that move on the earth.”
29 God also said: “See, I give you every seed-bearing plant all over the earth and every tree that has seed-bearing fruit on it to be your food;
30 and to all the animals of the land, all the birds of the air, and all the living creatures that crawl on the ground, I give all the green plants for food.” And so it happened.
31 God looked at everything he had made, and he found it very good. Evening came, and morning followed–the sixth day.

Genesis 9 : 1 - 3
1 God blessed Noah and his sons and said to them: "Be fertile and multiply and fill the earth.
2 Dread fear of you shall come upon all the animals of the earth and all the birds of the air, upon all the creatures that move about on the ground and all the fishes of the sea; into your power they are delivered.
3 Every creature that is alive shall be yours to eat; I give them all to you as I did the green plants. :twocents: npatrol:

 

[cathybramble]

Genesis 1 : 26 - 31

26 Then God said: “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness. Let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, the birds of the air, and the cattle, and over all the wild animals and all the creatures that crawl on the ground.”
27 God created man in his image; in the divine image he created him; male and female he created them.
28 God blessed them, saying: “Be fertile and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it. Have dominion over the fish of the sea, the birds of the air, and all the living things that move on the earth.”
29 God also said: “See, I give you every seed-bearing plant all over the earth and every tree that has seed-bearing fruit on it to be your food;
30 and to all the animals of the land, all the birds of the air, and all the living creatures that crawl on the ground, I give all the green plants for food.” And so it happened.
31 God looked at everything he had made, and he found it very good. Evening came, and morning followed–the sixth day.

Genesis 9 : 1 - 3
1 God blessed Noah and his sons and said to them: "Be fertile and multiply and fill the earth.
2 Dread fear of you shall come upon all the animals of the earth and all the birds of the air, upon all the creatures that move about on the ground and all the fishes of the sea; into your power they are delivered.
**3 Every creature that is alive shall be yours to eat; I give them all to you as I did the green plants. ** :twocents: npatrol:

unfortunately, many people see this as carte blanche to stuff as many sick animals into a shed as possible, castrated and de-beaked needlessly, and pump them full of chemicals. we have turkeys that are bred so large and “meaty” that they can’t breed on their own. we inseminate dairy cows (and inject them full of hormones) to make them produce as much milk as possible, and throw their babies (who never actually get to suckle the milk that God intended for them) away like trash – and then wonder why we humans can so callously justify killing our own unborn. we have reduced the miracle and wonder of reproduction to a mechanical process or a means to an end. those who do not see the connection are blinded by their gluttony.

bottom line, i doubt that God approves of what we are doing to His creation. this line in genesis does not justify what we do to animals in order to obtain “food.” this is not directed to you, puppypatrol, its just that i get annoyed when people use Gen 9:3 to justify the abuse of animals in the food production industry.

while there are people who need to consume some meat, most of us could actually live just fine without it. i have done so for many years and have never been healthier… i take great delight in busting the “anemic, underweight, unhealthy vegan” myth

 

[That_one_guy]

Somehow i feel compelled eo remind everyone…

With all due respect,sir,…I will say this one more time.
It is not about whether you are allowed to eat meat or not.It is about the ethical treatment of animals.
Just because there is evidence to support the claim that humans were not designed to eat meat,…and just because there are many of us who choose not to eat meat,…this does not mean that YOU should not eat meat.If it bugs you so much,maybe there is a subconscious issue of guilt.I don’t know.Do it for lent.
I don’t care if you eat meat.If you can raise pigs and cattle and turkeys and chickens,etc. for food,in an ETHICAL AND HUMANE fashion, then please do.
Most animal lovers don’t care if you eat meat.kpeople: Just DO NOT BE CRUEL TO THE LIVESTOCK!!!

 

[mackbrislawn]

I believe that the CCC speaks clearly on this subject. Someone posted directly from the CCCC on an earlier post.

From my point of view is not so much whether animals have more rights than people or whether there should be organizations to protect animals. If I’m reading the CCC correctly, it’s really about our duties as stewards of creation.

We have a duty to other living things to make sure that they are treated with kindness, humanely and are not abused. In other words, we cannot be indifferent to the created world, including animals. If there are organizations that promote good stewardship, then we should support their efforts.

Even the Holy Father allows cats to live in his private home.

JR

The above is a good point.

Now I don’t know whether animals have rights or not. It doesn’t matter, however, because in general animals do not have the ability to enforce their rights if they have them.

So, the real question is not what rights animals have, but rather, what duties do we have towards animals?

 

[JReducation]

The above is a good point.

Now I don’t know whether animals have rights or not. It doesn’t matter, however, because in general animals do not have the ability to enforce their rights if they have them.

So, the real question is not what rights animals have, but rather, what duties do we have towards animals?

This is why the CCC quotes saints like Francis of Assisi, because they understood that we have a moral obligation to treat all of creation as God intended and to love it as God loves it. We all come from the hand of the same Creator. Therefore, we have an obligation to act morally toward all creation and exercise proper stewardship, without cruelty.

Modern ecology has shown us over and over again, that when we fail to treat creation with respect and without cruelty, nature comes back to bite us. Maybe we should listen to what the Church says and take the example of the saints regarding the treatment of animals.

JR

 

[That_one_guy]

So, the real question is not what rights animals have, but rather, what duties do we have towards animals?

We should take care of our household pets,no doubt.Those who choose to eat animals should try to ensure that the(ugh)food they purchase is from a place that raises their animals organically and kills them in as humane a fashion as possible.With clean living conditions.