Animal suffering

[spencelo]

Is it wrong, on the Catholic view, to torture animals unnecessarily? If so, why doesn’t the Catholic Church advocate the eradication of factory farming, where billions upon billions of animals are slaughtered every year and are forced to reside in horrible conditions?

I highly recommend this paper by Stuart Rachels: jamesrachels.org/stuart/veg.pdf

Abstract: Over the last fifty years, traditional farming has been replaced by industrial farming. Unlike traditional farming, industrial farming is abhorrently cruel to animals, environmentally destructive, awful for rural America, and wretched for human health. In this essay, I document those facts, explain why the industrial system has become dominant, and argue that we should boycott industrially produced meat. Also, I argue that we should not even kill animals humanely for food, given our uncertainty about which creatures possess a right to life. In practice, then, we should be vegetarians. To underscore the importance of these issues, I use statistics to show that industrial farming has caused more pain and suffering than the Holocaust.

 

[Stephen168]

Is it wrong, on the Catholic view, to torture animals unnecessarily? If so, why doesn’t the Catholic Church advocate the eradication of factory farming, where billions upon billions of animals are slaughtered every year and are forced to reside in horrible conditions?

I highly recommend this paper by Stuart Rachels: jamesrachels.org/stuart/veg.pdf

Abstract: Over the last fifty years, traditional farming has been replaced by industrial farming. Unlike traditional farming, industrial farming is abhorrently cruel to animals, environmentally destructive, awful for rural America, and wretched for human health. In this essay, I document those facts, explain why the industrial system has become dominant, and argue that we should boycott industrially produced meat. Also, I argue that we should not even kill animals humanely for food, given our uncertainty about which creatures possess a right to life. In practice, then, we should be vegetarians. To underscore the importance of these issues, I use statistics to show that industrial farming has caused more pain and suffering than the Holocaust.

Having grown up in rural America, I’ve NEVER seen an animal raised in horrible conditionals. Horrible conditions = no profit. No profit=hungry farmer.

 

[triumphguy]

So you’ve never been in a factory farm then.

Or is your definition of horrible not the same as mine?

 

[Abba]

This is absurd. I did not finish reading it. Don’t have the time. You cannot equate the suffering of 6 million people in the Holocaust to the suffering of farm animals.

The author does not understand human dignity and equates humans to animals. We cannot compare a man to a dog. We have a responsibility to take care of animals and treat them well and with care, but, to compare animals to humans it’s off the top.

I love animals and I am all for protecting and caring for them, but the discussion needs to take place in a sensible context.

 

[spencelo]

Having grown up in rural America, I’ve NEVER seen an animal raised in horrible conditionals. Horrible conditions = no profit. No profit=hungry farmer.

Then I suggest that you read up on the well-documented facts of factory farming – the article I linked to is a good place to start.

 

[spencelo]

This is absurd. I did not finish reading it. Don’t have the time.

The author does not understand human dignity and equate humans to animal. We cannot compare a man to a dog. We have a responsibility to take care of animals and treat them well and with care, but, to compare animals to humans it’s off the top.

Comparisons between humans and animals can certainly be made – both are capable of being subjected to incredible agony and suffering. If you agree that we have a responsibility to “take care of animals and treat them well,” why do you object to the conclusions that Rachel reaches?

 

[meltzerboy]

Is it wrong, on the Catholic view, to torture animals unnecessarily? If so, why doesn’t the Catholic Church advocate the eradication of factory farming, where billions upon billions of animals are slaughtered every year and are forced to reside in horrible conditions?

I highly recommend this paper by Stuart Rachels: jamesrachels.org/stuart/veg.pdf

Abstract: Over the last fifty years, traditional farming has been replaced by industrial farming. Unlike traditional farming, industrial farming is abhorrently cruel to animals, environmentally destructive, awful for rural America, and wretched for human health. In this essay, I document those facts, explain why the industrial system has become dominant, and argue that we should boycott industrially produced meat. Also, I argue that we should not even kill animals humanely for food, given our uncertainty about which creatures possess a right to life. In practice, then, we should be vegetarians. To underscore the importance of these issues, I use statistics to show that industrial farming has caused more pain and suffering than the Holocaust.

Catholicism and Judaism have virtually the same attitudes concerning this issue, namely, that animals should be treated humanely, since they are creatures created and loved by G-d and we are their guardians; however, they may be used for such things as food as well as testing drugs which have the potential of saving human lives. Judaism, like Islam, is particularly sensitive to the way animals are killed with regard to using a knife that has no nicks and is very sharp so that the least amount of pain is inflicted. If an animal suffers in the process of killing it, it is deemed unfit for consumption, that is, non-kosher. In Jewish teaching, pets must be fed before human members of the family since they do not have the cognitive power to delay their hunger needs. Despite all this, animal life is not regarded as the equivalent of human life with respect to its moral worth since animals are not created in the image of G-d, wonderful and beloved by G-d and us as they undoubtedly are.

 

[spencelo]

Catholicism and Judaism have virtually the same attitudes concerning this issue, namely, that animals should be treated humanely, since they are creatures created and loved by G-d and we are their guardians; however, they may be used for such things as food as well as testing drugs which have the potential of saving human lives. Judaism, like Islam, is particularly sensitive to the way animals are killed with regard to using a knife that has no nicks and is very sharp so that the least amount of pain is inflicted. If an animal suffers in the process of killing it, it is deemed unfit for consumption, that is, non-kosher. In Jewish teaching, pets must be fed before human members of the family since they do not have the cognitive power to delay their hunger needs. Despite all this, animal life is not regarded as the equivalent of human life with respect to its moral worth since animals are not created in the image of G-d, wonderful and beloved by G-d and us as they undoubtedly are.

Does Judaism endorse factory farming?

 

[Stephen168]

Then I suggest that you read up on the well-documented facts of factory farming – the article I linked to is a good place to start.

I known people who earn their living by raising dairy cattle, beef cattle, hogs and horse. NO horrible conditions. I don’t need someone else to tell me what I know. The reason for no horrible conditions are: Horrible conditions = no profit. No profit=hungry farmer.

 

[spencelo]

I known people who earn their living by raising dairy cattle, beef cattle, hogs and horse. NO horrible conditions. I don’t need someone else to tell me what I know. The reason for no horrible conditions are: Horrible conditions = no profit. No profit=hungry farmer.

So, no matter what the facts say, you’re just going to insist otherwise?

 

[Angelsflight]

I have never seen any farm in person…but I have seen enough videos of factory farm abuse on youtube to give me nightmares forever.

Chickens and pigs in cages where they have no room to move…slaughterhouses that are absolutely repulsive…physical abuse of animals that is incredibly heartbreaking.

Its one of the reasons I became a vegetarian 20 years ago…I do hope some of these places have changed their ways since then

 

[meltzerboy]

Does Judaism endorse factory farming?

Judaism is divided on the issue: no surprise here. Liberal Judaism (Reform and Reconstructionist) generally does not support factory farming, while the Orthodox branches do support it, passively. Orthodox Rabbis continue to certify meat processed according to this type of farming as kosher. Some in the Modern Orthodox community advocate vegetarianism.

 

[Stephen168]

So, no matter what the facts say, you’re just going to insist otherwise?

The facts are horrible conditions = no profit. No profit=hungry farmer. I have a vegan daughter-in-law and I’ve spend some time reviewing her faux facts. I’m not insisting otherwise, I’m saying, I already have the facts. I will admit I don’t know any one making a living raising chickens. Maybe there are people who buy chickens just to torture them. If so, I wonder how well the chickens produce.

 

[vsedriver]

I have never seen any farm in person…but I have seen enough videos of factory farm abuse on youtube to give me nightmares forever.

Chickens and pigs in cages where they have no room to move…slaughterhouses that are absolutely repulsive…physical abuse of animals that is incredibly heartbreaking.

Its one of the reasons I became a vegetarian 20 years ago…I do hope some of these places have changed their ways since then

A simple solution to this problem is to not buy meat produced on a factory farm. Sure it will cost a little more but at least you won’t feel so guilty. I have a friend who raises my pork and chicken and my next door neighbor raises my beef. I can see the cows every day. I even rescued a calf one day who got a piece of plastic stuck on his lower jaw. Stupid people often throw trash at animals not realizing that they might try to eat it.

All the animals are pasture raised and in the case of the beef, pasture bred and raised. Bulls up close are HUGE!

so if you don’t buy factory farm meat they will go out of business.

 

[triumphguy]

I known people who earn their living by raising dairy cattle, beef cattle, hogs and horse. NO horrible conditions. I don’t need someone else to tell me what I know. The reason for no horrible conditions are: Horrible conditions = no profit. No profit=hungry farmer.

Maybe you know good farmers who use good farming practices: because they do exist. However, a lot of farming is not so good, as you also know. Without defaming the guys you do know, it is true to say that much farming is not as good as it could be, for the animal or in quality of product.

 

[CopticChristian]

Does Judaism endorse factory farming?

Spence,

OT Judaism or Rabinnical Judaism?

 

[CopticChristian]

Is it wrong, on the Catholic view, to torture animals unnecessarily? If so, why doesn’t the Catholic Church advocate the eradication of factory farming, where billions upon billions of animals are slaughtered every year and are forced to reside in horrible conditions?

I highly recommend this paper by Stuart Rachels: jamesrachels.org/stuart/veg.pdf

Abstract: Over the last fifty years, traditional farming has been replaced by industrial farming. Unlike traditional farming, industrial farming is abhorrently cruel to animals, environmentally destructive, awful for rural America, and wretched for human health. In this essay, I document those facts, explain why the industrial system has become dominant, and argue that we should boycott industrially produced meat. Also, I argue that we should not even kill animals humanely for food, given our uncertainty about which creatures possess a right to life. In practice, then, we should be vegetarians. To underscore the importance of these issues, I use statistics to show that industrial farming has caused more pain and suffering than the Holocaust.

Spence,

I have no idea what you are talking about. Is it wrong on the Catholic view? Explain what this means before anything else.

What are you trying to say here, Is it wrong on the Catholic view to torture animals unnecssarily? Where is the Catholic view expressed cocerning animals?

 

[Angelsflight]

A simple solution to this problem is to not buy meat produced on a factory farm. Sure it will cost a little more but at least you won’t feel so guilty. I have a friend who raises my pork and chicken and my next door neighbor raises my beef. I can see the cows every day. I even rescued a calf one day who got a piece of plastic stuck on his lower jaw. Stupid people often throw trash at animals not realizing that they might try to eat it.

All the animals are pasture raised and in the case of the beef, pasture bred and raised. Bulls up close are HUGE!

so if you don’t buy factory farm meat they will go out of business.

Good advice. I know there are lots of places that sell humane products, eggs from free range chickens, etc…and that is great.

My personal belief is that animals are very special, innocent beings that definitely feel pain and they do get depressed. To be born and have a horrible life simply to end up on someone’s plate is terrible. Not that I begrudge other people eating meat. I don’t at all. I just think that for the time that they are alive, they must be treated with care and respect. They must be given room to walk around, a respectable place to sleep, and proper food. And be killed as humanely as possible.

But you are right. Not buying from these abusive farm factories is a great start.

 

[vera_dicere]

You people want affordable eggs and bacon? Then factory farming is the response. Our Governments and system of free market demands that they only way to fill the demand for those products in particular, is factory farming.

The moment you compare factory farming to the Holocaust, that’s when you cross that line from someone who is concerned about animal welfare, to someone who’s absolutely bat kaka crazy and should be avoided at all costs.

I grew up on a farm, we had “battery hens” and they were fat, plump, and from all appearnaces “happy”. Animals do not suffer the way we do. They do not understand suffering in the sense we do. Animals who are in conditions that we think cause them to “suffer” are responding from a biological sense that is pushing them towards survival. To compare teh suffering of some hen in a cage in a factory farm with a Jewish child led to the gas chambers is absolutely abhorrent!!

However, we as Christians and Jews, are instructed to care for God’s creatrues and be stewarts of the earth. Chickens are better off outside in the sunshine, pecking about the dirt for bugs and seeds and such, they are in their natural state, however, they produce less eggs. If the family of 5 wants to ensure their kids are getting cheap protient, eggs are the best bet. Its very, VERY easy for people to judge that family or that individual who buys factory farmed produce. Its very easy for some upper-middle class white unviersity liberal to thumb her nose at that family when she has the income from mummy and daddy to buy free range eggs.

I buy free range products because I can afford it, and I think it tastes better, and I like to know the products I buy, the animals had a good life before their final trip. But would I put a child’s health below some pig in a shed? Heck no! The child’s needs come first.

It is very expensive for a farmer to go free range, all that land, less animals, less produce, that’s why free range costs so much.

If we’re serious about stopping factory farming, people need to become more self-sufficient, the govt. needs to make it easier and cheaper to buy larger sections of land, that way the individual family can have their own chickens and pigs and whatever else that are living in a more free ranged lifestyle.

Posting animal rights rants on the internet and comparing battery hens with the innocent Jews who died in concentration camps will not help. Things need to change at a governmental level, at a regional level and at an individual level.

 

[epan]

You people want affordable eggs and bacon? Then factory farming is the response. Our Governments and system of free market demands that they only way to fill the demand for those products in particular, is factory farming.

The moment you compare factory farming to the Holocaust, that’s when you cross that line from someone who is concerned about animal welfare, to someone who’s absolutely bat kaka crazy and should be avoided at all costs.

I grew up on a farm, we had “battery hens” and they were fat, plump, and from all appearnaces “happy”. Animals do not suffer the way we do. They do not understand suffering in the sense we do. Animals who are in conditions that we think cause them to “suffer” are responding from a biological sense that is pushing them towards survival. To compare teh suffering of some hen in a cage in a factory farm with a Jewish child led to the gas chambers is absolutely abhorrent!!

However, we as Christians and Jews, are instructed to care for God’s creatrues and be stewarts of the earth. Chickens are better off outside in the sunshine, pecking about the dirt for bugs and seeds and such, they are in their natural state, however, they produce less eggs. If the family of 5 wants to ensure their kids are getting cheap protient, eggs are the best bet. Its very, VERY easy for people to judge that family or that individual who buys factory farmed produce. Its very easy for some upper-middle class white unviersity liberal to thumb her nose at that family when she has the income from mummy and daddy to buy free range eggs.

I buy free range products because I can afford it, and I think it tastes better, and I like to know the products I buy, the animals had a good life before their final trip. But would I put a child’s health below some pig in a shed? Heck no! The child’s needs come first.

It is very expensive for a farmer to go free range, all that land, less animals, less produce, that’s why free range costs so much.

If we’re serious about stopping factory farming, people need to become more self-sufficient, the govt. needs to make it easier and cheaper to buy larger sections of land, that way the individual family can have their own chickens and pigs and whatever else that are living in a more free ranged lifestyle.

Posting animal rights rants on the internet and comparing battery hens with the innocent Jews who died in concentration camps will not help. Things need to change at a governmental level, at a regional level and at an individual level.

In currency adjusted for inflation, food in America costs about 50% what it cost 50 years ago, and the average male was more then 20 pounds lighter at the same height. Bad cheap food is killing us and creating misery insofar as the low price encourages gluttony.

Balanced against this is the fact that throughout the world, the starving population is smaller than ever, as a percentage of total population.

So, how do you balance the suffering of an animal raised in one of these hellish farms to the suffering of a child or elderly person, who would otherwise go malnourished or starve?