Animal suffering

  • Thread starter Thread starter spencelo
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
thomasj349 said:
Thanks for commenting I have read all the various Catholic rules on animals. I just wonder these were not rules given by God but made by the Church who also said salvery was ok.
Click to expand...
Which one of the CCCs I just quoted do you disagree with and consider possibly being contrary to the will of God?
 
Abba said:
Which one of the CCCs I just quoted do you disagree with and consider possibly being contrary to the will of God?
Click to expand...
Experimentation on animals would be one - there are much more efficient ways to test things.
 
thomasj349 said:
Why is anyone who worries about the well-being of animals, caring for the planet, or practicing a vegan lifestyle a “dumb liberal”?
Click to expand...
Can you show where someone said this on this thread? I personally don’t think people who worry about the well-being of animals, or the caring for the planet are dumb liberals.
 
Stephen168 said:
Can you show where someone said this on this thread? I personally don’t think people who worry about the well-being of animals, or the caring for the planet are dumb liberals.
Click to expand...
This was a sarcastic comment I read on another post today, I am sure I could find plenty more if you’d really like. Vegans/Vegaterians or people who care about animals in general tend to be lumped in a liberals or as you can see here supporters of “planned parenthood”. They are treated as idiots for the most part on this website.

LIES LIES LIES!

Dump your car, buy a Prius
Go Vegan and join PETA
Don’t have children and support Planned Parenthood
Buy CFL’s
And Tax everything that walks and farts

…a message from the radical envrion-nuts
 
spencelo said:
Then it appears that Catholics don’t seem to “care” very much about animals, when they don’t speak out against abuses that are intrinsic and unavoidable in the factory farming system.
Click to expand...
They maybe. I know of one member who is not participating in this thread but is probably reading it, who is a member of some international organization whose goal is to prevent the suffering of some pigs while being transported in Europe, I forget what in the Middle East and the dolphins in Japan. I don’t think it is right to generalize. I am Catholic and I love animals and am very compassionate towards them. youtube.com/watch?v=x5NJowK9gn8

"Catholic ethics has been criticized by some zoophilists because it refuses to admit that animals have rights. But it is indisputable that, when properly understood and fairly judged, Catholic doctrine — though it does not concede rights to the brute creation — denounces cruelty to animals as vigorously and as logically as do those moralists who make our duty in this respect the correlative of a right in the animals.

In order to establish a binding obligation to avoid the wanton infliction of pain on the brutes, it is not necessary to acknowledge any right inherent in them. Our duty in this respect is part of our duty towards God. From the juristic standpoint the visible world with which man comes in contact is divided into persons and non-persons. For the latter term the word “things” is usually employed. Only a person, that is, a being possessed of reason and self-control, can be the subject of rights and duties; or, to express the same idea in terms more familiar to adherents of other schools of thought, only beings who are ends in themselves, and may not be treated as mere means to the perfection of other beings, can possess rights. Rights and duties are moral ties which can exist only in a moral being, or person. Beings that may be treated simply as means to the perfection of persons can have no rights, and to this category the brute creation belongs. In the Divine plan of the universe the lower creatures are subordinated to the welfare of man.

But while these animals are, in contradistinction to persons, classed as things, it is none the less true that between them and the non-sentient world there exists a profound difference of nature which we are bound to consider in our treatment of them. The very essence of the moral law is that we respect and obey the order established by the Creator. Now, the animal is a nobler manifestation of His power and goodness than the lower forms of material existence. In imparting to the brute creation a sentient nature capable of suffering — a nature which the animal shares in common with ourselves — God placed on our dominion over them a restriction which does not exist with regard to our dominion over the non-sentient world. We are bound to act towards them in a manner conformable to their nature. We may lawfully use them for our reasonable wants and welfare, even though such employment of them necessarily inflicts pain upon them. But the wanton infliction of pain is not the satisfaction of any reasonable need, and, being an outrage against the Divinely established order, is therefore sinful. This principle, by which, at least in the abstract, we may solve the problem of the lawfulness of vivisection and other cognate questions, is tersely put by Zigliara:

The service of man is the end appointed by the Creator for brute animals. When, therefore, man, with no reasonable purpose, treats the brute cruelly he does wrong, not because he violates the right of the brute, but because his action conflicts with the order and the design of the Creator (Philosophia Moralis, 9th ed., Rome, p. 136)." More here: newadvent.org/cathen/04542a.htm
 
thomasj349 said:
what are you asking me to prove?
Click to expand...
thomasj349 said:
why is anyone who worries about the well-being of animals, caring for the planet, or practicing a vegan lifestyle a “dumb liberal”?
Click to expand...
thomasj349 said:
denying that abuse and horrible conditions go hand in hand with factory farming is just plain stupid. There are countless videos on the internet of large companies like tyson kicking the **** out of chickens (just to name one).
Click to expand...
thomasj349 said:
after lots of reading on this site i have come to the conclusion that most of the “catholics” on this site hide behind the phrase in genesis that men hold dominion over the animals. I am not sure that god meant that they are not important and that caring about them is something for you to ridicule.
Click to expand...
 
The first was a question for you all to answer.

The second if you would like to view videos on the abuses in factory farming please feel free to check out the following websites or do a little research:
www.hsus.org
www.peta.org - I know most Catholics have a problem with PETA as do I but they have plent of well documented facts that cannot be disputed

You are asking me to prove my conclusion after months of research and reading on this site? This is just the impression I get I did not reference this thread specifically this just happened to be the one I decided to post on as the topic seemed to fit.
 
spencelo said:
Is it wrong, on the Catholic view, to torture animals unnecessarily? If so, why doesn’t the Catholic Church advocate the eradication of factory farming, where billions upon billions of animals are slaughtered every year and are forced to reside in horrible conditions?

I highly recommend this paper by Stuart Rachels: jamesrachels.org/stuart/veg.pdf

Abstract: Over the last fifty years, traditional farming has been replaced by industrial farming. Unlike traditional farming, industrial farming is abhorrently cruel to animals, environmentally destructive, awful for rural America, and wretched for human health. In this essay, I document those facts, explain why the industrial system has become dominant, and argue that we should boycott industrially produced meat. Also, I argue that we should not even kill animals humanely for food, given our uncertainty about which creatures possess a right to life. In practice, then, we should be vegetarians. To underscore the importance of these issues, I use statistics to show that industrial farming has caused more pain and suffering than the Holocaust.
Click to expand...
God cleansed all foods to eat in the NT. We have dominion over animals and they are a food source. I do not advocate cruelty and believe in all measures to reduce it. What is cruel to some is not cruel to another. God told St. Paul “kill and eat”. It’s hard to argue not to kill animals based on that alone. No matter what though an animal is not a human. I hope you would save a human in danger over an animal.
 
thomasj349 said:
The first was a question for you all to answer.

The second if you would like to view videos on the abuses in factory farming please feel free to check out the following websites or do a little research:
www.hsus.org
www.peta.org - I know most Catholics have a problem with PETA as do I but they have plent of well documented facts that cannot be disputed

You are asking me to prove my conclusion after months of research and reading on this site? This is just the impression I get I did not reference this thread specifically this just happened to be the one I decided to post on as the topic seemed to fit.
Click to expand...
So you can not prove any of your claims.
 
Stephen168 said:
So you can not prove any of your claims.
Click to expand...
I just gave you two sites that can help you see the abuses in factory farms - you can continue to ignore them if you’d like.

Please feel free to prove to me that my conclusions are wrong.
 
thomasj349 said:
I just gave you two sites that can help you see the abuses in factory farms - you can continue to ignore them if you’d like.

Please feel free to prove to me that my conclusions are wrong.
Click to expand...
Do those links show Catholics supporting cruelty to Animals? Do those videos show Catholics saying anyone who supports the well-being of animals, or the caring for the planet are “dumb liberals?” Do those videos show Catholics quoting the bible to support being cruel to animals? Do those videos show Catholics saying horrible conditions are not cruel?
Those are your claims!!
 
Stephen168 said:
Do those links show Catholics supporting cruelty to Animals? Do those videos show Catholics saying anyone who supports the well-being of animals, or the caring for the planet are “dumb liberals?” Do those videos show Catholics quoting the bible to support being cruel to animals? Do those videos show Catholics saying horrible conditions are not cruel?
Those are your claims!!
Click to expand...
You might want to re-read what I wrote.

If you’d like to see hate please search this site for anything with the following words:
“Gays or Homosexuals”
“Obama”
“Global Warming”
“PETA”

Just to name a few. There is a lot of hate on post related to those topics and I am not saying hate is disagreeing with actions or a lifestyle. Not saying everything and everybody is hate but a lot of the comments are very disgusting.
 
thomasj349 said:
You might want to re-read what I wrote.

If you’d like to see hate please search this site for anything with the following words:
“Gays or Homosexuals”
“Obama”
“Global Warming”
“PETA”

Just to name a few. There is a lot of hate on post related to those topics and I am not saying hate is disagreeing with actions or a lifestyle. Not saying everything and everybody is hate but a lot of the comments are very disgusting.
Click to expand...
There is no hate from Catholics. It only exists in your mind.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top