Animals and sin

[JaneGrey]

You need new reading glasses then. It compares humans to the rest of creation which includes animals and plants!!!

How pleasant of you.
Maybe animals and plants are mentioned in the preceding or subsequent passage, but I dont see anything in what you posted.

I dont see this as something worth getting into an argument over to be honest. It is not like the issue of abortion - you believe what you believe, and others what they believe. The OP asked if animals are capable of sinning, and I agree with what you and others said on the matter, until people started speculating on what happens in heaven.

 

[thistle]

How pleasant of you.
Maybe animals and plants are mentioned in the preceding or subsequent passage, but I dont see anything in what you posted.

I dont see this as something worth getting into an argument over to be honest. It is not like the issue of abortion - you believe what you believe, and others what they believe. The OP asked if animals are capable of sinning, and I agree with what you and others said on the matter, until people started speculating on what happens in heaven.

I’ll repeat the Church teaching:

CCC 367 Sometimes the soul is distinguished from the spirit: St. Paul for instance prays that God may sanctify his people “wholly”, with “spirit and soul and body” kept sound and blameless at the Lord’s coming. The Church teaches that this distinction does not introduce a duality into the soul.** “Spirit” signifies that from creation man is ordered to a supernatural end and that his soul can gratuitously be raised beyond all it deserves to communion with God.**

What is it about the word creation you don’t understand?
Creation means humans, animals, plants and from creation (humans, animals, plants) it is man who has a supernatural end, not animals and plants.

 

[jomoco]

I think there’s abundant scriptural reference to heavenly days when the lion shall lie down with the lamb, and so on, enough so that including animals as integral occupants of Eden, along with ourselves, is both logical, and very pleasing in God’s eyes.

And mistreating either animals or people in this life, it is safe to assume, is very displeasing in God’s eyes.

Perhaps God can superglue sinful souls into a repulsive animal, if displeased with that unfortunate human?

Think of Earth as Eden, awaiting a heavenly transformation, in its entirety, animals too!

Just an opinion, loosely based on Holy Scripture.

jomoco

 

[Catholic90]

I believe I will see my faithful pets in heaven. After all, if the lion is with the lamb, surely my dogs and cats can be there too!

The CC is being interpreted incorrectly by thistle. Nowhere in that quoted passage does it say a thing about animals. “From creation” means from the time man was created. It is not separating man from the rest of creation in this instance. Like, “from the start, I understood that the dog was energetic.” I am not separating the “I” from the “start”, but intimating that I knew that from the beginning.

Regarding sin…well, when my pets deliberately do something they know they are not allowed to do…they are disobeying. Is it a sin? Is it instinct? Is it the inability to control themselves in face of great temptation? Who knows, but I love them just the same!

 

[thistle]

I believe I will see my faithful pets in heaven. After all, if the lion is with the lamb, surely my dogs and cats can be there too!

The CC is being interpreted incorrectly by thistle. Nowhere in that quoted passage does it say a thing about animals. “From creation” means from the time man was created. It is not separating man from the rest of creation in this instance. Like, “from the start, I understood that the dog was energetic.” I am not separating the “I” from the “start”, but intimating that I knew that from the beginning.

Regarding sin…well, when my pets deliberately do something they know they are not allowed to do…they are disobeying. Is it a sin? Is it instinct? Is it the inability to control themselves in face of great temptation? Who knows, but I love them just the same!

That is absolute rubbish. Creation here is all living things.It does not mean from the time man was created.
I guess English is not your first language.

 

[Catholic90]

That is absolute rubbish. Creation here is all living things.It does not mean from the time man was created.
I guess English is not your first language.

Excuse me? Judgmental much?

English is my first language. Charity must not be your first good trait, however.

Sorry you are having a bad day, but you should not take it out on the posters on this board.

 

[JaneGrey]

I believe I will see my faithful pets in heaven. After all, if the lion is with the lamb, surely my dogs and cats can be there too!

The CC is being interpreted incorrectly by thistle. Nowhere in that quoted passage does it say a thing about animals. **“From creation” means from the time man was created. It is not separating man from the rest of creation in this instance. ** Like, “from the start, I understood that the dog was energetic.” I am not separating the “I” from the “start”, but intimating that I knew that from the beginning.

Regarding sin…well, when my pets deliberately do something they know they are not allowed to do…they are disobeying. Is it a sin? Is it instinct? Is it the inability to control themselves in face of great temptation? Who knows, but I love them just the same!

Yes this is what I gathered from it as well.

 

[JaneGrey]

I’ll repeat the Church teaching:

CCC 367 Sometimes the soul is distinguished from the spirit: St. Paul for instance prays that God may sanctify his people “wholly”, with “spirit and soul and body” kept sound and blameless at the Lord’s coming. The Church teaches that this distinction does not introduce a duality into the soul.** “Spirit” signifies that from creation **man is ordered to a supernatural end and that his soul can gratuitously be raised beyond all it deserves to communion with God.

What is it about the word creation you don’t understand?
Creation means humans, animals, plants and from creation (humans, animals, plants) it is man who has a supernatural end, not animals and plants.

I still dont see it, sorry. You can insult my intelligence if you want, but as I am honestly trying to see your point that is not going to help either. Why is it so important that people believe animals do not go to heaven? Most Catholics I know, both devout ones and casual ones, do not claim to know either way. We’ll know when we know.

 

[thistle]

I still dont see it, sorry. You can insult my intelligence if you want, but as I am honestly trying to see your point that is not going to help either. Why is it so important that people believe animals do not go to heaven? Most Catholics I know, both devout ones and casual ones, do not claim to know either way. We’ll know when we know.

Are you saying that you don’t understand that creation means all living things (humans, animals and plants)??
I don’t care if animals go to Heaven or not. If the Church teaches they do then I will accept that. However, the Church does not teach that. It teaches that from creation (humans, animals and plants) it is humans that have a supernatural end because of all living things only our souls are immortal.

 

[JaneGrey]

Are you saying that you don’t understand that creation means all living things (humans, animals and plants)??
I don’t care if animals go to Heaven or not. If the Church teaches they do then I will accept that. However, the Church does not teach that. It teaches that from creation (humans, animals and plants) it is humans that have a supernatural end because of all living things only our souls are immortal.

The passage is not saying what you keep asserting it is.