Animals / Hunting / Michael Vick

[PeteZaHut]

I am pulled in many different ways when it comes to the subject of animals.

1. I know that God gave us dominion over animals when he created them, but it is also our duty to care for them. Certainly, in some places in the world, meat is the only food people have. Should people in richer countries like America, who have the means of doing so, abstain from eating meat to save animals’ lives? God gave us the right to eat animals if we need to, but what about if we don’t “need” to?
2. Personally, I would never be able to hunt an animal or slaughter one for food. It would feel wrong to me. To me, hunting seems wrong unless you need the food. I have heard people say its not wrong as long as you eat the food, but, in that situation, they don’t need the food. They are just hunting for sport, and then they eat the food after to make it okay.
3. As to the Michael Vick or animal abuse situation, it had me thinking that God made nature so that animals brutally kill each other every day. We’ve all seen videos of zebras being eaten by lions. It’s sickening. Of course, we are not God, so it is wrong for us to facilitate the abuse of animals, as Michael Vick is accused of doing. I guess my debate is whether animal abuse is really as bad as people consider it to be if God made animals suffer pain and death in nature. Do animals feel pain like we do?

 

[iamrefreshed]

I am pulled in many different ways when it comes to the subject of animals.

1. I know that God gave us dominion over animals when he created them, but it is also our duty to care for them. Certainly, in some places in the world, meat is the only food people have. Should people in richer countries like America, who have the means of doing so, abstain from eating meat to save animals’ lives? God gave us the right to eat animals if we need to, but what about if we don’t “need” to?

You will have to point out for me where God said we can eat animals only if we “need” to. I am not familiar with such a statement.

1. Personally, I would never be able to hunt an animal or slaughter one for food. It would feel wrong to me. To me, hunting seems wrong unless you need the food. I have heard people say its not wrong as long as you eat the food, but, in that situation, they don’t need the food. They are just hunting for sport, and then they eat the food after to make it okay.

You are entitled to your opinion. I enjoy hunting deer and very much enjoy the venison. Those things are complementary.

1. As to the Michael Vick or animal abuse situation, it had me thinking that God made nature so that animals brutally kill each other every day. We’ve all seen videos of zebras being eaten by lions. It’s sickening. Of course, we are not God, so it is wrong for us to facilitate the abuse of animals, as Michael Vick is accused of doing. I guess my debate is whether animal abuse is really as bad as people consider it to be if God made animals suffer pain and death in nature. Do animals feel pain like we do?

I’m pretty sure they do feel pain. At least ones with nervous systems.

 

[Kathrin]

Personally, I would never be able to hunt an animal or slaughter one for food.

I feel the same way. That is one of the main reasons why I don’t eat meat. I couldn’t kill an animal myself, so how could I think I ahve the right to let others do it FOR me?

Of course, in an emergency situation (danger of starvation) I can’t say what I’d do.

Kathrin

 

[TOP]

I am pulled in many different ways when it comes to the subject of animals.

1. I know that God gave us dominion over animals when he created them, but it is also our duty to care for them. Certainly, in some places in the world, meat is the only food people have. Should people in richer countries like America, who have the means of doing so, abstain from eating meat to save animals’ lives? God gave us the right to eat animals if we need to, but what about if we don’t “need” to?
2. Personally, I would never be able to hunt an animal or slaughter one for food. It would feel wrong to me. To me, hunting seems wrong unless you need the food. I have heard people say its not wrong as long as you eat the food, but, in that situation, they don’t need the food. They are just hunting for sport, and then they eat the food after to make it okay.
3. As to the Michael Vick or animal abuse situation, it had me thinking that God made nature so that animals brutally kill each other every day. We’ve all seen videos of zebras being eaten by lions. It’s sickening. Of course, we are not God, so it is wrong for us to facilitate the abuse of animals, as Michael Vick is accused of doing. I guess my debate is whether animal abuse is really as bad as people consider it to be if God made animals suffer pain and death in nature. Do animals feel pain like we do?

Here in WV, the kids get a week off of school for opening season for deer. That is the time to fill your freezers for winter. Also ,well to do hunters donate the meat for the food for the poor. There are still poor people in the US.

 

[Orionthehunter]

I am pulled in many different ways when it comes to the subject of animals.

1. I know that God gave us dominion over animals when he created them, but it is also our duty to care for them. Certainly, in some places in the world, meat is the only food people have. Should people in richer countries like America, who have the means of doing so, abstain from eating meat to save animals’ lives? God gave us the right to eat animals if we need to, but what about if we don’t “need” to?
2. Personally, I would never be able to hunt an animal or slaughter one for food. It would feel wrong to me. To me, hunting seems wrong unless you need the food. I have heard people say its not wrong as long as you eat the food, but, in that situation, they don’t need the food. They are just hunting for sport, and then they eat the food after to make it okay.
3. As to the Michael Vick or animal abuse situation, it had me thinking that God made nature so that animals brutally kill each other every day. We’ve all seen videos of zebras being eaten by lions. It’s sickening. Of course, we are not God, so it is wrong for us to facilitate the abuse of animals, as Michael Vick is accused of doing. I guess my debate is whether animal abuse is really as bad as people consider it to be if God made animals suffer pain and death in nature. Do animals feel pain like we do?

1. You don’t need to eat meat because I do. If meat was removed from the diet of the world, there would mass starvation because there is insufficient land to grow crops. Livestock is the most energy efficient means to get protein into the food supply. Vegatables and grains require significant human, irrigation, and energy (name removed by moderator)uts. A world that relied solely on “harvested” foodstuffs would have significantly higher food costs.
2. I disagree w/ your judgment on my motives and rationale for hunting. And I see little charity.
3. I don’t understand your point. If you have ever seen your pet suffering with old age and arthritis, you can see them experience pain.

 

[vern_humphrey]

Vegetarianism is not part of Christianity – after all, Jesus did not command it and the Apostles did not practice it. Meat, in fact, was part of the Passover meal, so Christ and the Apostles did eat meat.

There is nothing wrong with harvesting the good things that God sends us – I pick muscadines, for example, and make wine. I pick berries and gather nuts. And I harvest deer, squirrels, and other wild meats. Why should I not do it?

 

[Manresa]

It’s all about stewardship. God gave us domain over the animals and the world. This does not give us carte blanche to abuse it.

Two animals killing each other in the wild, ie your zebra and lion scenario, is different from a group of people placing two animals that they specially trained into a pit and bet on which one is superior. The most appalling part of the whole ordeal is the way the losing animals were executed… shot, electrocuted and drowned. Shot is pretty fast if done correctly, but drowning and electrocuting are ways of sadisticly inflicting pain and suffering on a creature of God for your own enjoyment.

I say creature of God because that is what they are.

~the earth was a formless wasteland, and darkness covered the abyss, while a mighty wind swept over the waters.~
Genesis 1:2

Anytime you see wind in Sacred Scripture, even if it is lower case, you can pretty well bet it is referring to the Holy Spirit, who is God. Wind is also considered to be the breath of God, also considered the Holy Spirit. So, here we see God moving across the waters breathing life into the new creation.

~I, on my part, am about to bring the flood (waters) on the earth, to destroy everywhere all creatures in which there is the breath of life; everything on earth shall perish.~
Genesis 6:17

Here God is telling Noah His plan. He will destroy all creatures in which there is the breath of life, not just people.

I challange to look at life through a deeper spiritual insight, through the eyes of your heart. If you walk through a park, meadow or your yard and all you see is grass as just being grass, then I bet that is how you view all life. If you have no respect for the lowest form of God’s creation then you cannot respect the highest form which explains why we have abortion and other violations of human dignity. Likewise, if you cannot respect the highest form of life then you cannot respect the lowest which explains things like dog fighting and other crimes that destroy the earth.

This is all basic Ignatian Philosophy, (based on St. Ignatius of Loyola and his work The Spiritual Exercises) God is all of His creation and all of His creation reflects His love and majesty, likewise, He reflects His creation.

From a social standpoint, ask any law enforcement investigator and they will tell you that the Unholy Trinity, the precursors of serial killers, is

1. Bedwetting
2. Cruelty to animals
3. Infactuation with fire

Without being judgmental, Michael Vick and company have at least one of those precursors that we know of.

 

[marci]

We are free to use the gifts that God has given us, whether beef, fish, or fowl. God created animals for man to use in work or for food. There is nothing sinful about eating meat, even if you aren’t starving.

Having said that we are to be good stewards of the gifts that we have been given. For example, it is sinful to be wasteful.
Believe me, I love my animals, I find beauty and purpose in nature and I value it. The problem comes in when people, however well intentioned, place the value of animals on the level of humans.
Animals do not have souls, they are not eternal beings created in the image of God.

We are obligated to be humane in our dealings with animals, but we must realize their place in our world.

 

[Manresa]

Animals do have souls, not like us, but they do have souls and this seen heavily in Sacred Scripture, they contain the breath of God.

 

[Cristiano]

“Hunting for God and fishing for the Lord” by Fr. Joseph Classen is an interesting reading for people that may want to look at different points of view but still from a religious take.

I hunt and the rule in my family is you kill it, you clean it, and you eat it.

If you are not willing to kill the animal then you should not be willing to eat it.

Since hunting implies killing (and that it is not fun at all) you may gain a new respect for the food that you eat and probably waste much less then you used too.

I cannot stand the catch and release practice in fishing, and the hunters that are willing the waste the animal after they killed it because it is annoying to clean it. I like wild boars and they do really stink. Sometimes it is really disgusting having the dress them.

 

[Image_of_God]

According to Genesis, God originally made humans vegeterians. He only permitted the eating of meat due to human weakness. I think that when the earth is made anew, that humans will be vegeterians once again.

 

[Cristiano]

Your question about animals feeling pain, it is an interesting one. Animals do feel pain like us; however, they have a big advantage respect to us. They really lack the awareness that human beings have and they cannot expect/predict the incoming pain.

One of the problems with our suffering is that we can and often do expect pain and that makes things even harder. For this reason chronic pain that comes and goes is easier on animals than people.

 

[vern_humphrey]

According to Genesis, God originally made humans vegeterians. He only permitted the eating of meat due to human weakness. I think that when the earth is made anew, that humans will be vegeterians once again.

26 Then God said: “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness. Let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, the birds of the air, and the cattle, and over all the wild animals and all the creatures that crawl on the ground.”

Genesis 1, 26.

Sounds to me like God meant for man to have dominion over all the animals from the very beginning.

 

[Catholic90]

I am pulled in many different ways when it comes to the subject of animals.

1. I know that God gave us dominion over animals when he created them, but it is also our duty to care for them. Certainly, in some places in the world, meat is the only food people have. Should people in richer countries like America, who have the means of doing so, abstain from eating meat to save animals’ lives? God gave us the right to eat animals if we need to, but what about if we don’t “need” to?

Steak tastes pretty darn good, and nothing beats a grilled hamburger on a nice summer day! My abstaining from meat to eat some tasteless hunk of tofu or dry beans will do nothing to help feed the poor or improve my mood.

1. Personally, I would never be able to hunt an animal or slaughter one for food. It would feel wrong to me. To me, hunting seems wrong unless you need the food. I have heard people say its not wrong as long as you eat the food, but, in that situation, they don’t need the food. They are just hunting for sport, and then they eat the food after to make it okay.

That is your opinion. I don’t hunt either, but I certainly do not begrudge those who do. Without hunters around here, the wild deer would run even more rampant than they do, spreading disease, destroying vegetation, and causing even more car accidents. The pheasants, ducks and geese would multply even more, again spreading disease, etc.

My BIL hunts and wants to teach my sons to do so. They are excited to learn. Once they complete gun safety training, they will be hunting with him.

1. As to the Michael Vick or animal abuse situation, it had me thinking that God made nature so that animals brutally kill each other every day. We’ve all seen videos of zebras being eaten by lions. It’s sickening. Of course, we are not God, so it is wrong for us to facilitate the abuse of animals, as Michael Vick is accused of doing. I guess my debate is whether animal abuse is really as bad as people consider it to be if God made animals suffer pain and death in nature. Do animals feel pain like we do?

Of COURSE animals feel pain! (You apparently have never had pets).

Other animals do not “brutally kill each other” for sport, unlike some twisted humans. They kill for survival (or in the case of my cats, they kill bugs because it amuses them and pleases me!). Actually, watching a lion attack and kill a zebra is not sickening. Lions cull the herd (catching the ill, weak, infirm – survival of the fittest). This is a good thing. If you watch the lion, or any other wild animal, they kill quickly, and the “victim” does not generally suffer long.

Putting 2 animals in a closed in pen who have been starved, beaten, teased, and tortured and then betting which one will beat the other is nothing like hunting, wild animals surviving, or anything remotely moral. It is sick, twisted, and psychopathic.

 

[Catholic90]

According to Genesis, God originally made humans vegeterians. He only permitted the eating of meat due to human weakness. I think that when the earth is made anew, that humans will be vegeterians once again.

I don’t think so…God pretty much gave us dominion over the creatures. He gave us canine teeth and he created our digestive system to handle meat and in fact requires the protein that is found complete in meat.

Jesus himself ate meat at passover.

Last I checked there is no commandment prohibiting us from eating meat!

 

[vern_humphrey]

I don’t think so…God pretty much gave us dominion over the creatures. He gave us canine teeth and he created our digestive system to handle meat and in fact requires the protein that is found complete in meat.

Jesus himself ate meat at passover.

Last I checked there is no commandment prohibiting us from eating meat!

You missed the part in Exodus where God tells the Children of Israel to make themseves a lamb out of tofu and put a crayola mark on the doorposts.

 

[Brendan]

I

1. Personally, I would never be able to hunt an animal or slaughter one for food. It would feel wrong to me. To me, hunting seems wrong unless you need the food. I have heard people say its not wrong as long as you eat the food, but, in that situation, they don’t need the food. They are just hunting for sport, and then they eat the food after to make it okay.

Why should your logic not apply to plants as well. Should we only eat plants if we need to. How about if we are strolling along as see some wild carrots. Are we only morally allowed to eat a carrot if we are in need. Why would it not be ok to have a carrot as a snack.

If it’s ok to snack on a carrot, why not venison jerky?

 

[Brendan]

Animals do have souls, not like us, but they do have souls and this seen heavily in Sacred Scripture, they contain the breath of God.

And plants do, and bacteria do. All living creatures have a God Breathed soul. That is what defines living matter from dead matter.

However, the souls of plants, animals (and yes, even bacteria) differ essentially from human souls.

Human souls are immortal and spiritual. Animal and plant souls are neither.

Which is why we may eat both animals and plants. If we cannot eat animals because they are soulful creatures, that would also exclude plants.

 

[vern_humphrey]

Why should your logic not apply to plants as well. Should we only eat plants if we need to. How about if we are strolling along as see some wild carrots. Are we only morally allowed to eat a carrot if we are in need. Why would it not be ok to have a carrot as a snack.

If it’s ok to snack on a carrot, why not venison jerky?

If I kill a deer in my woods, there will be another deer there next year – deer are a renewable resource.

But if I clear the woods and plant carrots, there will be no more deer there.

 

[Catholic90]

If I kill a deer in my woods, there will be another deer there next year – deer are a renewable resource.

But if I clear the woods and plant carrots, there will be no more deer there.

My friends have both woods and carrots ( a whole garden of veggies, actually), and they are now missing much of their garden due to the deer eating it! He can’t wait for hunting season, as he says he will be eating his garden veggies; however, they will be in the form of venison!!