Animals in heaven?

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The Gospel of John tells us that not all of Jesus did was not written down but to say that something isn’t in the bible but it MIGHT have happened isn’t saying anything as I attempted to illustrate with my tongue in cheek example. ANYTHING might have happened but just because it MIGHT have happened doesn’t mean that it DID happen and that type of argument doesn’t prove anything.
 
Sir_Knight said:
The Gospel of John tells us that not all of Jesus did was not written down but to say that something isn’t in the bible but it MIGHT have happened isn’t saying anything as I attempted to illustrate with my tongue in cheek example. ANYTHING might have happened but just because it MIGHT have happened doesn’t mean that it DID happen and that type of argument doesn’t prove anything.
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Dear Sir Knight. True, to say something “might” have happened certainly isn’t a proof it actually happened. But the word “might” also gives meaning to the words HOPE and curiosity. We don’t know all God has said, we don’t know all God has planned for us. The word “might” to me is equal to the wonder of a child who knows little that we adults know, but has HOPE. 🙂 Peace.
 
…I think you are getting alittle silly here making up stories about Jesus-there is certainly enough scriptural evidence that He saw himself as a shepherd tending to His flock…often people were characterized as sheep…someone who loves us so much that He was willing to die for us- called us animals as a term of the highest endearment…animals and children hold very special regard in God’s eyes…the rest of us have a little work to do…:angel1:
 
BarbaraTherese said:
Who is Father John Hardon, SJ:
Father John A. Hardon, S.J. is considered one of the most prominent Roman Catholic theologians of our century. As an author, speaker, retreat master, and consultor for the Catechism of the Catholic Church, his name is well known. He, as does Pope John Paul II, advocated the laudable practice of Eucharistic Adoration. More

Ask Father Hardon
by John A. Hardon, S.J.

Q. *Is it correct to say that pets do not go to Heaven after death because animals do not have immortal souls? Are religious medals for pets wrong? Do they lead to misunderstanding about animals, souls, and Heaven? ***
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—I.R., Michigan​
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That is a very interesting take, but a leaves quite a bit unanswered (such as all of my objections) and it has it’s own potential problems. I say potential because it is likely that he would, as a theologian, be able to better qualify his assertions as presented.

My questions are:
  1. It seems he is wrestling with a bit of an internal contradiction…he wants to assert the POSSIBILITY of animals, and “all like beings” (whatever that means) in heaven (post resurrection ?) as part of our “joy”…however he also wants to stress simultaneously that we need no contingent thing to be a cause for our joy if we are in the presence of God, who is the ultimate end of all natural creation…and for man in a very special sense. How can we claim to be able to add anything to the infinite glory of God in heaven, the only true good and source of all happiness? What is “infinite” + 1? Do you see the dilemma?
  2. What is “creaturely happiness”? Is anyone familiar with this distinction? Does “creaturely happiness” play a role in heaven? Is it even possible to answer this question?
  3. What does he mean by “animals and such like creatures being brought to heaven”? Obviously he indicated NOT AS PETS (see the contradiction I mentioned in #1, it seems he agrees with me actually that it is absurd to think of family pets as object of affection in heaven)…Does he mean that specific animals, such as our beloved pets will participate in a resurrection of sorts? (I hope not) Or does he mean that only certain animals will be brought into being again for our “creaturely happiness”…since God is not sufficient in and of himself as a source of Joy?
  4. If the former, then God would probably want to bring back ALL ANIMALS, so as to ensure that our “creaturely happiness” is completely fulfilled: kittens, puppies, horses, flies, sharks, amoebas, bacteria, sponges, snakes, scorpions, wolves, sea urchins, dinosaurs, etc. It seems we are being myopic with how we are viewing both ‘animals’ and the natural order.
  5. Putting religious medals on animals is not wrong…but it is silly.
  6. A problem that I see in this discussion is that people want to equate the kind of love that they have with their pet a little too closely to the kind of love that ought to be reserved for PEOPLE. A dog that has died, though loved in a lesser sense, is not comparable to grandpa dieing. We rightly speak of a hope of being reunited with Grandpa, but I think it is wrong speak in the same way of pets! The intention I think is to attempt to elevate animals conceptually, but the results are really to cheapen or equivocate the profound and unique dignity of the human person. If you begin to speak of animals as if they could merit heaven or the beatific vision alongside human beings, you really are stripping us of our ontological dignity as well as the divinization of humanity as told in the New Testament.
  7. Why are people so obsessed with pets in the first place? Does anyone else agree with me that they tend to be a distraction from the love of humanity that we are called to live out in the Gospel? Doesn’t all of that money spent on pet food, vet visits, etc, better suited to aiding a human brother/sister who is in need? Animals do in fact provide some kind of creaturely joy, but it seems to me that they do not provide real love…real love requires interpersonal self donation and sacrifice, which pets not only do not require but cannot give.
 
…you’ve never connected with an animal -or you’d know that the unconditional love they share is the closest thing to God’s unconditional love this side of Heaven…they enhance our lives-they make us more aware of what love really is-and that is the kind of selfless love we humans can only strive for-it does not come naturally to humans-egos tend to get in the way…if it were up to me(and I could insure that the pets would be well taken care of)-I’d make it mandatory that all children would grow up surrounded by the love of pets-they would be better adults for the experience…it’s foolish to debate this- Heaven has “many mansions”… I guess you just will have to go to one where the animals aren’t allowed inside…:rolleyes:
 
JCnMe said:
… animals are teachers-they teach us to be better humans-they surround us with unconditional love …the Holy Spirit is represented as a Dove-Jesus Christ is known as the Lamb of God, the Lion of Judah…if you’ve ever been around dogs- you know it is no coincidence that dog is God spelled backwards…Pope JohnPaul II’s love for animals is well known-he was the first Pope to declare “animals possess a soul and men must love and feel the solidarity with our smaller brethren”, and that animals are"fruit of the creative action of the Holy Spirit and merit respect", and are “as near to God as men are”…

Job 12:7-10
…But ask now the beasts,and they shall teach thee:and the birds of the air and they shall tell thee.
Speak to the earth, and it shall answer thee: and the fishes of the sea shall tell.
Who is ignorant that the Hand of the Lord hath made all these things?
…In whose Hand is the soul of every living thing,and the spirit of all flesh of man.

…and another reminder- the Covenant after the flood was with every living thing…

…the innocence as children that we must aspire to-to come into the kingdom of Heaven- already exists in the animals…they are here to teach us to be better humans and love unconditionally…the latin word for soul is anima-from which the word animal comes from

keep in mind that at one time it was debatable whether women had souls…:eek:

Hope this helps give comfort to those who question God’s love for the messengers of his purr-fect love…for most-it just wouldn’t be Heaven without being reunited with the furry and feathered members of the family too…and God doesn’t disappoint…Trust that…((((hugs))))God Bless
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  1. Animals teach us to be better human beings? Do good human beings eat their young? Do good human beings fling feces at one another? Do good human beings copulate without regard or restriction? Do good human beings dominate or even kill the weak within their social order?
  2. Animals CANNOT surround you with unconditional love, animals are completely incapable of real love, which presupposes that they seek your good, are self-donative, and seek union with you out of regard for who and what you are…with animals it is quite impossible.
  3. The spirit is symbolized by a dove, NOT LITERALLY A DOVE. And Jesus is allegorically SYMBOLIZED as a lamb/lion, but he is obviously not literally a lamb…he IS literally the Eucharist however.
  4. Equating God with dogs is ridiculous at best and actually horribly sacrilegious at worst. I would really reflect on that…you ought to NEVER speak of the Lord in such a manner.
  5. All good people “love” (in a qualified sense) animals, and no doubt JPII loved animals too. I “loved” my dog too! Also, he was definitely NOT the first pope to say that animals have souls, animals have always been held to have souls. But not intellectual souls. Thomas Aquinas points out that it is our moral duty to treat animals well.
  6. The verses from Job that you indicate is hitting upon the truth that the natural world teaches us indirectly about God who is its author. Also there is much to study in the natural world, for this reason, that is worth knowing in and of itself…but this is presented in such way that it is meant to be poetry and not LITERAL.
  7. Animals are NOT INNOCENT…they are utterly incapable of a moral life whatsoever. See #1. I find it vulgar to compare the innocence of children to animals. Jesus said to enter the kingdom that we must become as little children…he DID NOT SAY that we must be like animals. Though he does liken us to sheep and himself to a sheperd to make an allegorcial point…he also likens us to the branches of a grape-vine and himself to the main vine.
  8. At what point was it debatable whether women had souls? NOT IN CHRISTIANITY!
 
elt1956 said:
As I have read further posts, I realized that all of the animals created by God were in the Garden of Paradise with Adam and Eve. Paradise was to have been for all eternity until both Adam and Eve somehow received the punishment of death. That the animals, in their innocence, were driven out of Paradise also proves to me, God wanted us to have the consolation of our furry friends. They share the punishment humans earned through no fault of their own, surely they will receive God’s just reward for their faithfulness to us. 👍 Peace.
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  1. If you recall the Genesis account more closely, you will find that animals were created after Adam so that he would not be lonely…they were inadequate! So God created for Adam a companion of his flesh/blood also made in the image and likeness of God that might actually be able bring Adam interpersonal love, Eve. So animals in no way were any kind of REAL consolation for Adam or Eve. Only God (whom they lost) and each other.
  2. Also Genesis is clear, animals were made so that Adam and Eve might have dominion over them and subjugate them for their own good. Animals and the natural world is ordered to the good of Man, who in turn is ordered to God.
  3. How much consolation do animals bring us when joggers are attacked/killed by mountain lions and alligators, or swimmers maimed by sharks?
  4. Animals do not share in our punishment
 
JCnMe said:
…I think you are getting alittle silly here making up stories about Jesus-there is certainly enough scriptural evidence that He saw himself as a shepherd tending to His flock…often people were characterized as sheep…someone who loves us so much that He was willing to die for us- called us animals as a term of the highest endearment…animals and children hold very special regard in God’s eyes…the rest of us have a little work to do…:angel1:
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Jesus called us sheep to make an allegorical point…he also called us grape branches! Is it because grape branches are a term of endearment? Are grape branches precious in the eyes of the Lord?

Children are in fact LOVED by God, animals in a sense are also “loved” by God in so far as they continue to exist. But the natural order is actually more accurately out of God’s love for the children, who take priority. In fact animals exist for the sake of those children. But in and of themselves, animals are not meant to be in communion with God.
 
BarbaraTherese said:
And there is this from the Acts of The Apostles:
Undoubtedly only the human soul can be gifted the Beatific Vision.*
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Past, present, future refers by definition to the temporal order alone. There is not time in heaven.
Also those other references are with regard to the intrinsic goodness of the natural order and the fact that human beings are embodied souls and that “material creation” in some sense will be spiritualized…but not so much about animals/pets along side us in heaven.
 
LOL… sorry for laughing- but your aversion to animals sounds more like a personal problem rather than fact…your observations and obvious utter revulsion towards animals goes against everything anyone who loves and knows animals know is true…why all the hostility??? Perhaps another subject would be more to your liking- …and more to your understanding and hopefully would bring out the best of you-rather than the worst…animals ARE teachers and surround us with unconditional love as pets- of course you have to be able to feel it to acknowledge it…some people never will and they will never know what they have missed either-…you will never understand that bond between people and their pets…and what is really sad is you have absolutely no compassion for the loss of a beloved pet that started this thread… how would you feel is some inconsiderate unfeeling poster intruded on your grief-with such repsonses directed at you…think about it…God Bless you for believing you really had something to offer here
 
As others have commented, I so agree. I asked this question of Bishop Anthony Fisher OP, a very holy and wise man and he also said that if to be totally happy meant having ones pet/s in heaven then God would provide, but also too, just being in heaven maybe all we need to be happy.
The book of the apocalypse talks about the “beasts of heaven” so to me we can trust in God’s all knowing mercy and leave it at that
 
Jksoren…God doesn’t make anything that isn’t loved by Him- yes, grape branches are a term of endearment… again…your inability to acknowledge or comprehend the length and breadth of God’s infinite and inclusive love is absolutely incredible to me…good thing God doesn’t fit into that very small box you are trying to put him in…His Love for all His creation is not limited by your narrow views…Thank you Lord :signofcross:

((((CreosMary))))… well said…Bless you
 
As mentioned, no our beloved pets do not go to heaven, as their souls cease to exist at their death.

This is not cause for sorrow in the afterlife, because in heaven, the Beatific Vision will be our complete happiness, and we will need nothing else.

That said, God’s re-creating of our beloved friends is not precluded by this theology.
 
JKsoren said:
Communion such as this presupposes the power of the intellect (which IS necessary for immortality) that only rational beings are endowed with…
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if only rational beings are goingto get into heaven then heaven is going to be a lot more empty than i first thought?
JKsoren said:
in fact animals do not have a free-will either…which again means they cannot LOVE properly speaking…
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Animals have no free will? so who tells the dog to maul a child to death then?
Animals cannot not love? then why does a dog show it’s owner more love and devotion than what many humans can? or why does a Chimpanzee openly grieve over a loss of its young? Elephants have showed this trait too. One story a orang-utan poacher from Indonesia was telling a news crew how he change from a poacher to a wildlife officer. He said he was out hunting orang-utan mothers with very young off spring. ( they sell the young as pets on the black market.) he says he shot the orang-utan and wounded her. The ape then proceeded to climb down the tree approach the hunter and place the young in his hands before dying. Why would the mother do this If it was just some stupid animals that could not comprehend anything?
JKsoren said:
The Catechism has a teaching on heaven in CCC 1023-1029
Pets are not mentioned but this is in fact the Churches constant teaching for hundreds of years.
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Yes the Catechism has teachings on heaven and pets are not mentioned one way or another. So really if someone says with all sincerity that they believe pets go to heaven. They have just as much chance of being right as you. The Bible a higher authority than Catechism. says there will be animals in the kingdom of God. sure it doesn’t excatly say pets. But aren’t pets animals too? maybe our pets will be there but they will not be our pets but free animals who just might like to hang around us. And that has just as much chance as being correct as what anyone here can say.
 
I believe 100% that our pets and other animals are in Heaven. Animals didn’t fall in the Garden of Eden. Man did. I believe Jesus came on earth to save humans after the fall and because animals didn’t fall He didn’t need to come to save them.
It’s hard for me to imagine Heaven without my beloved deceased dog that I grew up with in particular but also other deceased animals aswell. 🙂
 
JKsoren said:
That is a very interesting take, but a leaves quite a bit unanswered (such as all of my objections) and it has it’s own potential problems. I say potential because it is likely that he would, as a theologian, be able to better qualify his assertions as presented.

My questions are:
  1. It seems he is wrestling with a bit of an internal contradiction…he wants to assert the POSSIBILITY of animals, and “all like beings” (whatever that means) in heaven (post resurrection ?) as part of our “joy”…however he also wants to stress simultaneously that we need no contingent thing to be a cause for our joy if we are in the presence of God, who is the ultimate end of all natural creation…and for man in a very special sense. How can we claim to be able to add anything to the infinite glory of God in heaven, the only true good and source of all happiness? What is “infinite” + 1? Do you see the dilemma?
  2. What is “creaturely happiness”? Is anyone familiar with this distinction? Does “creaturely happiness” play a role in heaven? Is it even possible to answer this question?
  3. What does he mean by “animals and such like creatures being brought to heaven”? Obviously he indicated NOT AS PETS (see the contradiction I mentioned in #1, it seems he agrees with me actually that it is absurd to think of family pets as object of affection in heaven)…Does he mean that specific animals, such as our beloved pets will participate in a resurrection of sorts? (I hope not) Or does he mean that only certain animals will be brought into being again for our “creaturely happiness”…since God is not sufficient in and of himself as a source of Joy?
  4. If the former, then God would probably want to bring back ALL ANIMALS, so as to ensure that our “creaturely happiness” is completely fulfilled: kittens, puppies, horses, flies, sharks, amoebas, bacteria, sponges, snakes, scorpions, wolves, sea urchins, dinosaurs, etc. It seems we are being myopic with how we are viewing both ‘animals’ and the natural order.
  5. Putting religious medals on animals is not wrong…but it is silly.
  6. A problem that I see in this discussion is that people want to equate the kind of love that they have with their pet a little too closely to the kind of love that ought to be reserved for PEOPLE. A dog that has died, though loved in a lesser sense, is not comparable to grandpa dieing. We rightly speak of a hope of being reunited with Grandpa, but I think it is wrong speak in the same way of pets! The intention I think is to attempt to elevate animals conceptually, but the results are really to cheapen or equivocate the profound and unique dignity of the human person. If you begin to speak of animals as if they could merit heaven or the beatific vision alongside human beings, you really are stripping us of our ontological dignity as well as the divinization of humanity as told in the New Testament.
  7. Why are people so obsessed with pets in the first place? Does anyone else agree with me that they tend to be a distraction from the love of humanity that we are called to live out in the Gospel? Doesn’t all of that money spent on pet food, vet visits, etc, better suited to aiding a human brother/sister who is in need? Animals do in fact provide some kind of creaturely joy, but it seems to me that they do not provide real love…real love requires interpersonal self donation and sacrifice, which pets not only do not require but cannot give.
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God saw ALL His creation and He saw that it was GOOD. If God didn’t see an inherent goodness and reason for animals, I don’t think He would have created them. In Heaven we will find all we need for happiness. God will provide. I agree, the vision of God should be enough for eternal happiness, but right now in my human form, my little faithful, furry friend gives me unconditional love which humans cannot give and I certainly would miss him if he wasn’t beside me in eternity. That is my human nature speaking. 🙂 Peace.
 
Porthos11…your post is personal conjecture-nothing more…God does not give souls to those who can be “duplicated”… animals are as unique in spirit as we are-…what is it about God sharing His love through and to animals- that is incomprehensible to you?..Is it that you don’t know what Heaven is like?.. that’s an easy one…so above-so below…the difference is you can’t get into Heaven without knowing and accepting God’s Love through His Son Jesus Christ…you have to know Him to know the Father…if you know LOVE you know God…God is LOVE… if you can’t feel it yourself- pray on it…- to those who experience it through their animals-there is no doubt they are a God send and very much loved and cherished by their Creator… of course animals go to Heaven-they are ambassadors of God’s love-…and anyone who loves an animal and is loved back already knows that…God Bless
 
JCnMe said:
Porthos11…your post is personal conjecture-nothing more…God does not give souls to those who can be “duplicated”… animals are as unique in spirit as we are-…what is it about God sharing His love through and to animals- that is incomprehensible to you?..Is it that you don’t know what Heaven is like?.. that’s an easy one…so above-so below…the difference is you can’t get into Heaven without knowing and accepting God’s Love through His Son Jesus Christ…you have to know Him to know the Father…if you know LOVE you know God…God is LOVE… if you can’t feel it yourself- pray on it…- to those who experience it through their animals-there is no doubt they are a God send and very much loved and cherished by their Creator… of course animals go to Heaven-they are ambassadors of God’s love-…and anyone who loves an animal and is loved back already knows that…God Bless
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What are you blathering about? I have two wonderful and crazy dogs who are the joy of my life. I know, however, through the wisdom of Christ’s Church, that they do not possess immortal souls. They are here now to give me joy and that joy comes from God. But that joy, as with all earthly joys, is merely a prefiguration of the joy that comes with heaven. Such is the revelation of Christ. God is THE ultimate happiness.

As for personal conjecture, well, I’m merely going along with the best theologians. There is no definite dogmatic definition, except the fact that only God matters in the end. If he sees the need for our pets in heaven, he’ll make sure they’re there.
 
I would hate to think that a good friend of mine, Hildy, who recently passed away, would not be with Smokey, Max and Nikki tossing a ball around and going for walks.

Kathy
 
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